On Wednesday 02 February 2005 12:54, svaksh wrote:
On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 19:21:26 +0500, sherlock@vsnl.com sherlock@vsnl.com wrote:
not unless the person has made an attempt to resolve his problems thru readily available > means FIRST. GNU/Linux is all about self help. If you do not do that you are leaving the > door wide open to the problem you are trying to escape - dependence. rgds jtd
Excuse the OT question , but how can you presume / judge that no attempt was made ?
when you make an attempt u describe briefly the attempt and it's results. The default (gained from experience ad-nauseum) is to presume that no effort has been made. If u feel otherwise u are welcome to repeat the effort.
If the goal is to spread Linux among the masses in India, pushing them away with rude comments like "RTFM" is not helpful at all. It pushes them to square zero (read M$).
RTFM is a conerstone of independence how dare u say it's rude ;-) And if they are not frustrated enough to RTFM let them go back to windose. They are not doing anybody a favour by switching. The FOSS community is about independence and effort to understand and excell in computing. If people are happy behind the gates so be it. If somone feels differently go ahead and do the needful nobody's stopping u.
rgds jtd
On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 17:32:43 +0500, sherlock@vsnl.com sherlock@vsnl.com wrote:
On Wednesday 02 February 2005 12:54, svaksh wrote:
On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 19:21:26 +0500, sherlock@vsnl.com sherlock@vsnl.com wrote:
not unless the person has made an attempt to resolve his problems thru readily available > means FIRST. GNU/Linux is all about self help. If you do not do that you are leaving the > door wide open to the problem you are trying to escape - dependence. rgds jtd
Excuse the OT question , but how can you presume / judge that no attempt was made ?
when you make an attempt u describe briefly the attempt and it's results. The default (gained from experience ad-nauseum) is to presume that no effort has been made. If u feel otherwise u are welcome to repeat the effort.
If the goal is to spread Linux among the masses in India, pushing them away with rude comments like "RTFM" is not helpful at all. It pushes them to square zero (read M$).
RTFM is a conerstone of independence how dare u say it's rude ;-) And if they are not frustrated enough to RTFM let them go back to windose. They are not doing anybody a favour by switching. The FOSS community is about independence and effort to understand and excell in computing. If people are happy behind the gates so be it. If somone feels differently go ahead and do the needful nobody's stopping u.
rgds jtd
Unfortunately, you continue to miss the point of both the articles... :( Any product (free or otherwise) is used by *all* (incl non-geeks) but if the FOSS community wishes to be the only consumer of its creation, then so be it. List members usually help others *freely* minus prejudice, thereby sharing knowledge. If one does not have either the time or patience for 'so-called' stupid questions by newbies, feel free to delete the msg or unsubscribe. They are not forcing anyone to help so it certainly does not justify rudeness. Silence helps, imho ;)
The FOSS community is about independence and effort to understand and excell in computing.
While that might be one reason to use FOSS, it's a bit assumptive to think that it's the only reason. Over several years, I've seen open source software being used for different purposes and freedom from closed source solutions was not a factor in many of these setups. I am not exactly sure what you mean by "excel in computing."
RTFM is a conerstone of independence how dare u say it's rude ;-) And if they are not frustrated enough to RTFM let them go back to windose. They are not doing anybody a favour by switching.
I've always wondered why these kind of responses are very common and, more disturbingly, considered acceptable in many Linux online communities -- even in communities that claim to be resources for new users. While I understand the importance of looking up documentation, I also find the "go do your homework" attitude to be more than a little patronizing.
On a different note, this is my first posting on the mailing list. It's nice to discover a vibrant LUG in Mumbai.
-Anshu
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:44:35 -0600, "Anshuman Dasgupta" anshu.dasgupta@gmail.com said:
I've always wondered why these kind of responses are very common and, more disturbingly, considered acceptable in many Linux online communities -- even in communities that claim to be resources for new users. While I understand the importance of looking up documentation, I also find the "go do your homework" attitude to be more than a little patronizing.
That's because someone has already taken pains and spent considerable time and effort to write those manuals and document any existing issues. Many times veterans also find themselves googling around in order to reply to a so called *new user* . And since he/she is a *new user* , its very likely that his/her problem is a very common one, and many such *new users* have already asked that question before.
Anurag
That's because someone has already taken pains and spent considerable time and effort to write those manuals and document any existing issues. Many times veterans also find themselves googling around in order to reply to a so called *new user* . And since he/she is a *new user* , its very likely that his/her problem is a very common one, and many such *new users* have already asked that question before.
Yup, I agree that most of these questions have probably been asked and answered before. The problem is not in referring them to documentation but rather the abrasive nature of the replies which make some forums an extremely hostile environment for new users. (I'm not claiming that this forum is, btw. I'm making a more general point.)
-Anshu
Anurag wrote:
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:44:35 -0600, "Anshuman Dasgupta" anshu.dasgupta@gmail.com said:
I've always wondered why these kind of responses are very common and, more disturbingly, considered acceptable in many Linux online communities -- even in communities that claim to be resources for new users. While I understand the importance of looking up documentation, I also find the "go do your homework" attitude to be more than a little patronizing.
That's because someone has already taken pains and spent considerable time and effort to write those manuals and document any existing issues. Many times veterans also find themselves googling around in order to reply to a so called *new user* . And since he/she is a *new user* , its very likely that his/her problem is a very common one, and many such *new users* have already asked that question before.
Anurag
Dear Anurag, Jude and others,
I think, what the newbies are trying to say is that if you wat to shoot an arrow meant to pierce the heart, do it like cupid instead of a regular archer. :-) Sugar coating strong comments and redirecting the queries to google will get the same intended results but in a way that makes everyone happy.
Regards,
Rony.
-
Anshuman Dasgupta -
Anurag -
Rony Bill -
sherlock＠vsnl.com -
svaksh