Sanket Medhi wrote:

On 12/7/05, Sanket Medhi sanketmedhi@gmail.com wrote:

...

There is an odd problem I am facing. I just realized that I can't ping anyone on the network...not even myself (localhost). :-s

I am using two IP addresses in the form of eth0 and eth0:1 . The eth0 is used for Sify's static IP and eth0:1 for the local network. Amazingly, everything including all internet applications and DC work perfectly. But neither can I ping anyone's IP on the local network (except for Sify's server) nor can others ping my IP. The point is that this is happening only on Ubuntu. These things seem to be on m$. Due to this problem, I can't use applications like vnc and gnump3d.

What could be the problem? I have inserted lines for eth0:1 manually in the /etc/network/interfaces

Ok. I kinda figured this problem out. It was something with the interfaces file. Sorry for the trouble.

Another problem, I cant host web pages from my mcahine to the web as Sify provides me static IP and the address updated by no-ip is 221.135.232.31which happens to be the IP of Sify's server. I guess because of the proxy service Sify uses. So, is there any way I can override this to host my pages perfectly? -- Regards, Sanket Medhi.

Hi Sanket,

I had contacted Sify support regarding this earlier this year. The technical support said that the proxy is the only way to access the internet through Sify and that if I wanted to host anything on my machine I would have to buy a static IP.

Regards, Siddhesh

On Wednesday 07 December 2005 07:34, Sameer N Ingole wrote:

And a static IP should not cost you more than a $ per month thats $12 a year. What does sify say about the?

I beg you. Dont get me started on Sify and ISPs in general. Anyway, AFAIK Sify charges more than 5000 bucks for static ips... May be my info is inaccurate. Anyway, they are stingy money pinching n00bs who dont even want to buy a small part of the IP address space so they can give everyone a public IP...

On Wednesday 07 December 2005 16:24, Sanket Medhi wrote:

I launched a complaint regarding this yesterday night. The "call center" guy said remote administration is not entertained by sify. I still insisted they take down my complaint. It took me considerable time to make him understand what I exactly wanted. He just didnt seem to understand that. After putting me on hold for over 5 minutes, he came up with the term VPN (stands for Virtual Private Networking) and asked me if that was what I wanted. I was frustrated so I said "Yes!" :P

Haha. May be he will try to sell you Sify IP VPN solution ;)

On 12/7/05, Siddhesh Poyarekar siddhesh.poyarekar@gmail.com wrote:

What is sick about the ISPs (especially broadband) is that they charge a bomb for their service and give only the basic facility -- web browsing. Sify blocks Usenet services, disallows you from hosting anything at all, no web server, no ssh server, no ftp.

I agree!

And they refuse us all these services saying that they're protecting us from

malicious programs. They're catering to novice users of the internet and at the same time suffocating those who wish to really use their services to the fullest.

That is true in a sense, because all internet traffic including malicious attacks are handled by the ISP servers themselves. You dont have to worry about anyone accessing your machine from the outside world. Though, it might be necessary for some people like us to have the previlege to use extra benefits than just surfing.

The question is can we do something about this or is this fair and adequate

service that they're providing us?

I guess, as of now all we can do is think, research and decide upon an ISP which matches our needs perfectly. As far as I am concerned, I am trying to get my Tata Indicom connection back and will try out other ISP's like Pacenet, Exatt which provide dynamic IP's over PPPOE connections. Though these will be just as a backup.

-- Regards, Sanket Medhi.

Dinesh Joshi wrote:

"Extra benefits"? Dude do you work for some ISP esp. Sify? :O Those "extra benefits" are a part and parcel of the internet. Everyone should have them. You should be ashamed of your statements. You are a part of a GNU / Linux User group whose core ideology is based on "freedom". But you actually subscribe and justify unjust and unreasonable restrictions put by Sify and other service providers. FSF / GNU / Linux / OSS are all about freedom. Free as in "un-restricted, uninhibited and unlimited". Not Free as in monetory terms!

Don't get me started on unfair trade practices and monopolies of ISPs or the Government. I have a bad habit to keep ranting for a looong time :|

P.S.: I apologize for sounding harsh.

-- Dinesh A. Joshi

Agreed that the "extra benefits" are part and parcel of the internet. But the reality of the situation right now is that Sify in the past gave their service without any strings attached. The reason for their denial of such service (ability to host content for example) is simply "business decision" as the customer care put it. Shifting to alternate services is not easy as all providers now prefer coming through the cablewallas. Only MTNL TriBand is possible, which has a download limit of only about 1Re per MB. I get a 150 MB per day limit plus free downloads at night (10 to 8) with Sify... at 256 kbps.

So in the end you would end up calling these services as "extra benefits". Broadband will never truly come into India until another 2-5 years with everyone content with whatever they have. You have to admit we're a minority here. Most people require nothing more than a messenger, web browser and its accessories (flash, qt, etc) to utilize the internet to its fullest.

Not trying to sound anti-freedom or anything here. Just stating things as I see them happening.

Siddhesh

PS: I will definitely not shift away from Sify because I get to download a whole CD every night for free. Just stacked up slackware and the latest Knoppix last week ;)

On Wednesday 07 December 2005 17:09, Siddhesh Poyarekar wrote:

And they refuse us all these services saying that they're protecting us from malicious programs. They're catering to novice users of the internet and at the same time suffocating those who wish to really use their services to the fullest.

The question is can we do something about this or is this fair and adequate service that they're providing us?

Agreed. Shift to an ISP like powersurfer.net IMHO they are the best when it comes to "freedom" while uptime is average (my router has a better uptime) and the speeds are OK.

On Thursday 08 December 2005 01:07, Sanket Medhi wrote:

On 12/8/05, Dinesh Joshi dinesh.a.joshi@gmail.com wrote:

...

Agreed. Shift to an ISP like powersurfer.net IMHO they are the best when it comes to "freedom" while uptime is average (my router has a better uptime) and the speeds are OK.

Their packages are quite costly. And availability of service in areas like Thane where I stay is doubtful. BTW, try clicking on the New Registration link on that Powersurfer site. This is a direct link... http://bbregistration.powersurfer.net/servlet/Register

Instead, Tata Indicom (which I used earlier, and am getting back) is much better, cheaper and reliable.

MTNL ADSL beats the pants off every ISP (Tata, Reliance, Incable, Exatt, SIFY) - so far. Additional email id's @ Rs.200/p.a., static ip @ Rs.0.00/ (afair), no proxy, maintains promised speeds at all hours, does not require security by obscurity authentication, very high uptime (given the power situation all cable walllahs are out of the race) and so far only the odd artificially fattened bill. Oh MTNL your performance brings a tear to me eyes.

rgds jtd

On Thu, 2005-12-08 at 11:32 +0530, JTD wrote:

MTNL ADSL beats the pants off every ISP (Tata, Reliance, Incable, Exatt, SIFY) - so far. Additional email id's @ Rs.200/p.a., static ip @ Rs.0.00/ (afair), no proxy, maintains promised speeds at all hours,

Static IP @ Rs. 0.00? IIRC, they were charging Rs. 2K/pa for a static IP under the initial TriBand plans that now been reduced to Rs. 1K/pa see -> http://mumbai.mtnl.net.in/triband/htm/tariff.htm

On Thursday 08 December 2005 17:23, Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:

If you need the extra facilities you need to pay for them. We have negotiated deals with ISPs for our clients at their offices. We had Exatt with whom we were unhappy, spoke to PaceNet and finally took the service from Vibes Online. 256kbps guarenteed 1:1 through put with 98% uptime supported with SLA having penalty clause of 2 times the value of down time. They have given us static IP and every thing we asked for. Ofcourse, we paid far more than what the home user will pay, but that is because the business requirement demanded it.

Stating the obvious.

Finally, the ISP has to make money. They cant do that if they provide all services at Rs. 500 per month. They have to make money in some way. Either they will do that by charging you for MB downloaded, or restricting your facilities or charge you a fair rate. Bandwidth rates in India are still high (thanks to Tatas owned VSNL) and limited Last Mile connectivity (mostly owned by MTNL who refuses to share or new fiber wires which are costly due to lower usage volumes and because they are new). Add to this the stupid restrictions that the local municipalty puts to stop new fiber being laid down, the final result is that the ISP will need to charge you much more than you would like to pay for.

ISPs are charging what they like. Do you really think we lack capacity or the costs for the ISPs are so high that they really cant afford? Let me give you the example of the oh-so-great-MTNL-DSL. Initally, they started with a Rs.399 plan for 400MB @ 256Kbps. Now they offer the same plan for Rs.199 _and_ they have doubled capacities across all plans. Hmm...if the ISP could afford to cut the cost by 50% AND increase their free MBs by 2x then they have effectively quadrupled the benefit to the consumer. So do you think they are now making loss? No. They are far from making losses. They are making huge profits because in the international market ISPs don't charge by the volume, but rather the capacity. They give a damn if you connect your fibre @ 100Mbps and it transfers only 1GB a month. But they will charge you significantly higher if you connect to their network @ 1Gbps.

TATAs and Reliance are sitting on hordes of bandwidth. I also dont like hearing the oh-poor-indians-with-no-submarine-cables nonsense. TYCO deal left TATAs with 11000Gbps (11 Terabits per second) of unlit fiber capacity. They should be giving us a broadband connection for dirt cheap prices. But no. They want to rip off the Indian consumer just like the mobile companies about 5-10 years ago did. Reliance touts its huge fiber all over the country but its not put to good use. Don't get me talking on reliance. This demerger issue has made RIL so incompetitive lately...

Everything finally follows the market. Most users only want the basics of being able to surf the net and get email. So they are happy to pay a lower price for even lower facilities. The ISP will provide a better package if you are willing to pay more.

Haha. Yes, I agree. But its not that way. I am willing to pay for a 10Mbps unlimited connection without any port caps or download caps with a static public IP and a 5:1 ratio (ideally i would want a 1:1 ratio). Is there any ISP who will give me a connection? NO. Why? Because India still isn't a "consumer" oriented market. The consumer is still treated like shit. The competition is too little and ineffective. Couple this with our great Central govt's policies to protect its "Navratna" companies (BSNL / MTNL) and we have one heck of a ****** democracy! The government _has_ to open up the local loop to competition OR the private players must adopt WiMax. Thats the only solution cuz digging roads are and will be hindered by government / bmc. So we wont be like the Koreas or Japan where every house hold is connected through OFCs @ 10/100Mbps

This country has gone to the dogs! I pity the dogs though, they are more faithful than our politicians.

On Saturday 10 December 2005 06:47, (रेवंत) Revant Nandgaonkar wrote:

meaning .... I pay Rs. 750/month, and I can choose their own plan (from exatt lines), sify or pacenet

In a way thats good. You are shielded from all the crap that Sify and Pacenet do to you...

On Saturday 10 December 2005 13:25, Rony Bill wrote:

Calm down and thank God for being born in one of the best countries in the world and living in the best city in India.

The pithy truckers slogan "Sau me se ninyanve be-imaan fir bhi mere Bharat Mahaan"

Would i leave India for a "better" country. I don't think so.

When a piece of silk cloth is entangled into a thorny bush, it takes time and patience to get it out with minimum damage. Public sector companies are the largest employers

They are not. They employ roughly 10% of the total employed work force, but hog hughe amount of resources in delivering what ever. OTOH some services will never reach several regions since it's not remunerative. State transport, postal services, banking. This is infact the case in the US of A where some regions in the appalachians make bihar look modern. What is worse is as costs rise increasing number of people there are being removed from basic services (healthcare, education). In the UK govt health services are so abysymal (6 months minimum wait) that our municipal hospitals seem to run on rocket fuel.

Things are moving slowly but in the right direction so have patience. In a nation where millions still go to bed without food and shelter, consider yourself lucky.

Sob yeah well. If only i had the schematics for the DSL502t all would be well with the world for a few days.

As a student, you are the future of this country. So find out ways where you can make a positive contribution to it. Channelize your anger into positive action.

No comments.

On Saturday 10 December 2005 07:55, Rony Bill wrote:

Calm down and thank God for being born in one of the best countries in the world and living in the best city in India. When a piece of silk cloth is entangled into a thorny bush, it takes time and patience to get it out with minimum damage. Public sector companies are the largest employers and any drastic changes could mean loss of livelihood for millions.

And what do you think will happen after the government opens up the local loop? The employement in BSNL will go down? NO. Infact we will have more employement, more linesmen, more equipment being sold, more competition, lower costs, better services...! I fail to see how that could affect _employment_ ??

--- JTD jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:

On Saturday 10 December 2005 17:28, Dinesh Joshi wrote:

Will u guys shaddap ;-/. I am getting a desperate urge to rant and rave on the wonderful !@#$% all round us just when i had convinced my self to not look at crooked ISPees.

short Story: Why I disconnected tata indicom broadband service.

1. Upgraded from 800/month to 1500/month plan. for 1 week no change in speed even though web interface said speed is 512 kbps. reason? backend switch not made to 512 kbps. Requested credit for the service not provided. SORRY. there is no such provision.

2. after 25 days Downtime of 12 days. 20 phone calls later, they managed to get it up. They had a wiring problem. Didnt even send the proper person till the 12th day.

3. Wanted to downgrade again to lower plan. Check this out. Their monthly billing for rental is 1st to 30th. Their calculation for Data usage is 16th to 15th. So if I changed the plan (from 2 GB limit to 1 GB limit) on the 30th for the upcoming months, because in the period from 16th to 30th i have already gone over 1 GB limit (even though i paid for 2 GB till the 30th), i will be charged for the usage above 1 GB.

4. Downtime credit will be given according to the plan that is existing at the current time and not at the time the plan was in place when the downtime took place.

5. Line goes down again.

6. Had to disconnect. no other option. Are you reading this mr. anil sinha on the 15th floor of VSNL Fountain office?

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On Thu, Dec 08, 2005 at 10:53:51PM +0530, Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote:

If you need the extra facilities you need to pay for them. We have

Are we talking about ISPs not providing a bare TCP/IP connection to the net? If so, that's not extra, that's less. As I understand it most "ISPs" in Mumbai provide a *private* IP! It's not even routable from outside.

On Wednesday 07 December 2005 02:16, Sanket Medhi wrote:

Ok. I kinda figured this problem out. It was something with the interfaces file. Sorry for the trouble.

Do you mind telling what the problem and the fix was?

Mrugesh