31 Mar
2008
31 Mar
'08
7:46 a.m.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: jtd <jtd(a)mtnl.net.in>
To: "GNU/Linux Users Group, Mumbai, India" <linuxers(a)mm.glug-bom.org>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:09:07 +0530
Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] [Cross Posting] How the corrupt ones manipulate
things - are we going to allow them to win ? Should we just keep quiet or
begin a global protest ?
On Saturday 29 March 2008 10:53 am, Sudhir Gandotra wrote:
The standard operating process of Microsoft has been:
a) Stuff the committee with supporters (as happened in Pakistan and other
countries)
b) If that doesn't work and the committee says NO to OOXML then
c) Complain to the ministries under which the committee works, threaten
to withdraw investment, get proxies to file complaints etc.
In India, I hear that they raised the issue with the Prime Minister's Office
and the PM called for a meeting on this issue on Thursday. Apparently, the
head of one of the software export houses (a VERY respected person) also
sent a fax supporting OOXML *after* the committee had given its decision,
trying to overturn India's NO vote. Someone should ask whether these
companies represent India's interests on the BIS committee or are they
protecting their dollar revenues?
Venky
The statement goes on to say that Danish
Standards is changing its
vote because "the 168 Danish comments have been adopted as changes
to ISO/IEC DIS 29500 OOXML".
What they did not tell you is that abstain = yes. And that email votes
count. Only that many of the abstainers never recieved any intimation
stating that abstain = yes.
So in the bizzare M$ universe no with comments become yes, if the ecma
makes a comment - any comment - on your comment and abstain = yes and
you can change a no to yes BUT you turncoats cant change a yes to no.
Get it. NO? aha that's what happens if you dont use M$.
31 Mar
31 Mar
9:29 a.m.
[Top-posting because not replying to any specific point]
You have got to give it to these guys (MS). They know how to find their way out.
If OOXML becomes a standard even after the surfacing of irregularities
(http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/08/03/31/0039238.shtml), then it is the ISO which
should be worried. A world-wide, well-respected standards organization has
NO standard for participating members on how to conduct evaluations/voting?
It will effectively be a big failure for ISO - failing to practice
what they preach.
--
jaju
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Venkatesh Hariharan <venkyh(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The standard operating process of Microsoft has been:
a) Stuff the committee with supporters (as happened in Pakistan and other
countries)
b) If that doesn't work and the committee says NO to OOXML then
c) Complain to the ministries under which the committee works, threaten
to withdraw investment, get proxies to file complaints etc.
In India, I hear that they raised the issue with the Prime Minister's Office
and the PM called for a meeting on this issue on Thursday. Apparently, the
head of one of the software export houses (a VERY respected person) also
sent a fax supporting OOXML *after* the committee had given its decision,
trying to overturn India's NO vote. Someone should ask whether these
companies represent India's interests on the BIS committee or are they
protecting their dollar revenues?
Venky
--
http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
1 Apr
1 Apr
7:14 a.m.
On Monday 31 March 2008 02:59 pm, Ravindra Jaju wrote:
[Top-posting because not replying to any specific
point]
You have got to give it to these guys (MS). They know how to find
their way out. If OOXML becomes a standard even after the surfacing
of irregularities
If only they spent as much time, money and energy in straightening out
their crappy software.....Oh well they already are but could not get
code to work without jumping into the middle of an opcode.
(http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/08/03/31/0039238.shtml), then it is
the ISO which should be worried. A world-wide, well-respected
standards organization has NO standard for participating members on
how to conduct evaluations/voting? It will effectively be a big
failure for ISO - failing to practice what they preach.
Agreed. But even in national bodies with well defined procedures
(Poland), the rules were so mangled that fraud cases have been filed.
Besides there have been many contentious standards approval cases
over the years, But NEVER has it been so corrupted and brazenly
manipulated.
I always pitied M$ pathetic attempts at papering over their crappy
software. We were always able to side step without too much trouble.
But this one will force us all to contend with the rubbish their
software spews out....probably forever.
--
Rgds
JTD
8:43 a.m.
On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 12:44 +0530, jtd wrote:
On Monday 31 March 2008 02:59 pm, Ravindra Jaju
wrote:
Norway's Yes-to-OOXML is Formally Protested
http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/31/200201&from=rss
"Norway's yes-to-OOXML may tip the vote in favor of accepting it as an
ISO-standard, but the committee chairman just faxed a formal protest to
the ISO. 'I am writing to you in my capacity as Chairman (of 13 years
standing) of the Norwegian mirror committee to ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 34. I
wish to inform you of serious irregularities in connection with the
Norwegian vote on ISO/IEC DIS 29500 (Office Open XML) and to lodge a
formal protest. You will have been notified that Norway voted to approve
OOXML in this ballot. This decision does not reflect the view of the
vast majority of the Norwegian committee, 80% of which was against
changing Norway's vote from No with comments to Yes.'"
---
With best wishes for Unity in thinking, feeling and action.
Sudhir Gandotra. 98-101-20918
IIPL: B-220/2, 2nd Fl., Savitri Nagar, Malviya Nagar, New Delhi 110017,
India
Phone : +91-11-26014670, 71, 72. Fax : +91-11-26014672
OpenLX Linux OS, Linux Training, Support, Services, Product Development
Affordable Business Desktop @ Just Rs. 500/- :
http://kalculate.com/piracy.php
http://www.openlx.com/openlx.html - FOSS award 2008 winner Linux from
India
http://www.efytimes.com/efytimes/24867/news.htm
http://openlx.com/features.html - OpenLX Linux features
You don't need violence to shake the world
Treat Others As You Would Have Them Treat You
www.humanistmovement.org
[Top-posting because not replying to any specific
point]
You have got to give it to these guys (MS). They know how to find
their way out. If OOXML becomes a standard even after the surfacing
of irregularities
If only they spent as much time, money and energy in straightening out
their crappy software.....Oh well they already are but could not get
code to work without jumping into the middle of an opcode.
(http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/08/03/31/0039238.shtml), then it is
the ISO which should be worried. A world-wide, well-respected
standards organization has NO standard for participating members on
how to conduct evaluations/voting? It will effectively be a big
failure for ISO - failing to practice what they preach.
Agreed. But even in national bodies with well defined procedures
(Poland), the rules were so mangled that fraud cases have been filed.
Besides there have been many contentious standards approval cases
over the years, But NEVER has it been so corrupted and brazenly
manipulated.
I always pitied M$ pathetic attempts at papering over their crappy
software. We were always able to side step without too much trouble.
But this one will force us all to contend with the rubbish their
software spews out....probably forever.
--
Rgds
JTD 
2 Apr
2 Apr
10:19 a.m.
"Bill Gates is New Secretary General of ISO"
http://osindia.blogspot.com/2008/04/bill-gates-is-new-secretary-general-of.…
Nice one Venky! :-)
~ViM
--
Vipul Mathur
vipul at linux-delhi.org
31 Mar
31 Mar
10:20 a.m.
On Monday 31 March 2008 01:16 pm, Venkatesh Hariharan wrote:
The standard operating process of Microsoft has been:
a) Stuff the committee with supporters (as happened in Pakistan and
other countries)
b) If that doesn't work and the committee says NO to OOXML then
c) Complain to the ministries under which the committee works,
threaten to withdraw investment, get proxies to file complaints
etc.
In India, I hear that they raised the issue with the Prime
Minister's Office and the PM called for a meeting on this issue on
Thursday. Apparently, the head of one of the software export houses
(a VERY respected person) also sent a fax supporting OOXML *after*
the committee had given its decision, trying to overturn India's NO
vote.
Probably the same one who said that multiple standards are good for
the public and promotes competition. I wonder if he is getting
senile.
Someone should ask whether these companies represent
India's
interests on the BIS committee or are they protecting their dollar
revenues?
The $ countries have already voted yes. It is local competition for
big central / state government contracts that specify iso standards
WITHOUT M$ patented DIS(functional)25000.
The final outcome is likely to be yes in the ISO, given corrupt M$
practices.
And the public will be fattening the beast for the next 15 years, like
they did for the last 15, with their hard earned money.
--
Rgds
JTD
11:21 a.m.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
jtd wrote:
| And the public will be fattening the beast for the next 15 years, like
| they did for the last 15, with their hard earned money.
if there's a lesson in there somewhere that would be that battles like
OOXML cannot be be fought alone. having seen venky and others scramble
around for that "another influential contact who would listen to reason
and be sane" it is fairly clear that this has to be a much more involved
process. it requires more folks to join in and help in spreading the
message of why no ooxml in simpler terms and in multiple indian languages
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5:28 p.m.
On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 16:51 +0530, Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
jtd wrote:
| And the public will be fattening the beast for the next 15 years, like
| they did for the last 15, with their hard earned money.
if there's a lesson in there somewhere that would be that battles like
OOXML cannot be be fought alone. having seen venky and others scramble
around for that "another influential contact who would listen to reason
and be sane" it is fairly clear that this has to be a much more involved
process. it requires more folks to join in and help in spreading the
message of why no ooxml in simpler terms and in multiple indian languages
I agree. Maybe a special groups needs to be formed to battle this
long-term issue.
If this is the interest, I will be a volunteer.
---
With best wishes for Unity in thinking, feeling and action.
Sudhir Gandotra. 98-101-20918
IIPL: B-220/2, 2nd Fl., Savitri Nagar, Malviya Nagar, New Delhi 110017,
India
Phone : +91-11-26014670, 71, 72. Fax : +91-11-26014672
OpenLX Linux OS, Linux Training, Support, Services, Product Development
Affordable Business Desktop @ Just Rs. 500/- :
http://kalculate.com/piracy.php
http://www.openlx.com/openlx.html - FOSS award 2008 winner Linux from
India
http://www.efytimes.com/efytimes/24867/news.htm
http://openlx.com/features.html - OpenLX Linux features
You don't need violence to shake the world
Treat Others As You Would Have Them Treat You
www.humanistmovement.org
5202
days inactive
5204
days old
7 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
jtd -
Ravindra Jaju -
Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay -
Sudhir Gandotra -
Venkatesh Hariharan -
Vipul Mathur