Hello Luggers,
Am Experimenting with a new concept. FSF-OS Libraries. Am formulating one at my place in Andheri where i will rent out Copies of all FSF - OS distros....the big to the small for a Fixed Deposit(100/-) as a safe keeping, cause very simply i want accountability.
Since i will be on travel or busy with professional issues, i am have the same kept at RenDezvous Cyber...a close associate of mine whose Cable networks i have been managing for years now. Will also have a placard put up outside his place displaying "FSF-OS library".
Thinking of starting with all the major distros. And then gauge the response. Also, will have a list of these put up on the web for Students/Others to access.
Any other takers for the same..??. Inputs on the same???.
What say???.
Trevor
» -----Original Message----- » From: Trevor Warren » Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 7:41 AM » Am Experimenting with a new concept. FSF-OS Libraries. Am formulating » one at my place in Andheri where i will rent out Copies of all FSF - OS » distros....the big to the small for a Fixed Deposit(100/-) as a safe
Hi, If a writer can be arranged for, you can think of charging additional and let the person copy the desired distro. Comment on this for any other implications.
I have some old distributions (from the period of Slackware 2). I can make those available for copying and then keeping in the library. Let me know if they are required. Not sure what they would be useful for...
;-)
Thanks and Regards, Kiran Ghag Software Engineer @ Patni Computers, India Work Phone: +91 (22) 2829 1454 Extension 5236 Web Page: http://kiran7.freeservers.com http://kiran7.freeservers.com/
_____
Testing can show the presense of bugs, but not their absence. -- Dijkstra
Very true Kiran,
What the user does with the cd for the period it is loaned to him is none of our business. We shouldn't get into burning cd's and make the same mandatory for the person leasing these cd's out for a fee.....Unless he/she is ready to take up the additional onus of offering the same as a charged service.
A basic FSF-OS library should be free anyway. But for this to happen all across the city Luggers have to speak up. Numbers on this mailing list are amazing....but when it comes to taking part it dwindles down(Than includes me too..;)).
Trevor
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 09:22, K i r @ n G h a g wrote:
GLUG Meeting on 13th July, 4pm at KReSIT, IIT Campus, Powai.
» -----Original Message----- » From: Trevor Warren » Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 7:41 AM » Am Experimenting with a new concept. FSF-OS Libraries. Am formulating » one at my place in Andheri where i will rent out Copies of all FSF - OS » distros....the big to the small for a Fixed Deposit(100/-) as a safe
Hi, If a writer can be arranged for, you can think of charging additional and let the person copy the desired distro. Comment on this for any other implications.
I have some old distributions (from the period of Slackware 2). I can make those available for copying and then keeping in the library. Let me know if they are required. Not sure what they would be useful for...
;-)
Thanks and Regards, Kiran Ghag Software Engineer @ Patni Computers, India Work Phone: +91 (22) 2829 1454 Extension 5236 Web Page: http://kiran7.freeservers.com http://kiran7.freeservers.com/
Testing can show the presense of bugs, but not their absence. -- Dijkstra
On Friday 11 July 2003 10:21, Trevor Warren wrote:
GLUG Meeting on 13th July, 4pm at KReSIT, IIT Campus, Powai.
list are amazing....but when it comes to taking part it dwindles down(Than includes me too..;)).
I always have Knoppix and debian woody seven cd pack ready (at Rs.12 /cd) for any one who wants it. We are located next to kajurmarg station, which is convenient for luggers on Central rly.
My address Sparc Systems Ltd. 138, Hiranandani Industrial Estate Kanjurmarg (W). Mumbai 400078 Ph:25770864
does any one have SID cds? can u get them to the lug meet.
JT,
Please burn a copy of the same for me. Will collect woody + knoppix from you this sunday for the library.
Trevor
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 11:18, J. T. D'souza wrote:
GLUG Meeting on 13th July, 4pm at KReSIT, IIT Campus, Powai.
On Friday 11 July 2003 10:21, Trevor Warren wrote:
GLUG Meeting on 13th July, 4pm at KReSIT, IIT Campus, Powai.
list are amazing....but when it comes to taking part it dwindles down(Than includes me too..;)).
I always have Knoppix and debian woody seven cd pack ready (at Rs.12 /cd) for any one who wants it. We are located next to kajurmarg station, which is convenient for luggers on Central rly.
My address Sparc Systems Ltd. 138, Hiranandani Industrial Estate Kanjurmarg (W). Mumbai 400078 Ph:25770864
does any one have SID cds? can u get them to the lug meet.
JT,
Please burn a copy of the same for me. Will collect woody + knoppix from you this sunday for the library.
Trevor
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 11:18, J. T. D'souza wrote:
GLUG Meeting on 13th July, 4pm at KReSIT, IIT Campus, Powai.
On Friday 11 July 2003 10:21, Trevor Warren wrote:
GLUG Meeting on 13th July, 4pm at KReSIT, IIT Campus, Powai.
list are amazing....but when it comes to taking part it dwindles down(Than includes me too..;)).
I always have Knoppix and debian woody seven cd pack ready (at Rs.12 /cd) for any one who wants it. We are located next to kajurmarg station, which is convenient for luggers on Central rly.
My address Sparc Systems Ltd. 138, Hiranandani Industrial Estate Kanjurmarg (W). Mumbai 400078 Ph:25770864
does any one have SID cds? can u get them to the lug meet.
» From: Trevor » To: GNU/Linux "Users Group, Mumbai, "India » Subject: RE: [ILUG-BOM] funded FSF-OS libraries.» What the user does with the cd for the period it is loaned to him is » none of our business. We shouldn't get into burning cd's and make the » same mandatory for the person leasing these cd's out for a » fee.....Unless he/she is ready to take up the additional onus of » offering the same as a charged service. » A basic FSF-OS library should be free anyway. But for this to happen » Trevor
Hi, I think I was not clear from my part. Initial idea which I got from Trevor's mail was 1. Person will pay 100 rs as membership and _*take desired CD with him*_ and then return after he is done.
What I wanted to say was, if you (have/can arrange for) cd-writer 1. Above belief would be true by default. 2. By charging the extra amount librarian would cover charges for blank CDs and the CD-Writer usage (I think this is allowed by the license issues.). In this way, user will get his own copy and without hassles of searching of writer/cds himself. 3. if he takes the cd and copies on his own its of no business to us as you said.
Cheers.
Thanks and Regards, Kiran Ghag Software Engineer @ Patni Computers, India Work Phone: +91 (22) 2829 1454 Extension 5236 Web Page: http://kiran7.freeservers.com http://kiran7.freeservers.com/
_____
Testing can show the presense of bugs, but not their absence. -- Dijkstra
Kiran,
To whomsoever i deliver the charge of making some $$ by renting all FSF-OS cd's i want to ensure that it isn't too much of a headache. If he want to burn...its his choice to make some more added moolah.
Trevor
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 13:46, K i r @ n G h a g wrote:
GLUG Meeting on 13th July, 4pm at KReSIT, IIT Campus, Powai.
» From: Trevor » To: GNU/Linux "Users Group, Mumbai, "India » Subject: RE: [ILUG-BOM] funded FSF-OS libraries.» What the user does with the cd for the period it is loaned to him is » none of our business. We shouldn't get into burning cd's and make the » same mandatory for the person leasing these cd's out for a » fee.....Unless he/she is ready to take up the additional onus of » offering the same as a charged service. » A basic FSF-OS library should be free anyway. But for this to happen » Trevor
Hi, I think I was not clear from my part. Initial idea which I got from Trevor's mail was
- Person will pay 100 rs as membership and _*take desired CD with him*_ and then return after he is done.
What I wanted to say was, if you (have/can arrange for) cd-writer
- Above belief would be true by default.
- By charging the extra amount librarian would cover charges for blank CDs and the CD-Writer usage (I think this is allowed by the license issues.). In this way, user will get his own copy and without hassles of searching of writer/cds himself.
- if he takes the cd and copies on his own its of no business to us as you said.
Cheers.
Thanks and Regards, Kiran Ghag Software Engineer @ Patni Computers, India Work Phone: +91 (22) 2829 1454 Extension 5236 Web Page: http://kiran7.freeservers.com http://kiran7.freeservers.com/
Testing can show the presense of bugs, but not their absence. -- Dijkstra
Trevor,
I think this is a very practical idea. Only issue is that due to Mumbai's humongous size, the collection of OS CDs needs to be available in more geographical localtions so that people can access it without spending a whole day in travelling. Maybe, others on the list can replicate this idea in other locations in Mumbai?
Venky
Quoting Trevor Warren trevorwarren@softhome.net:
Hello Luggers,
Am Experimenting with a new concept. FSF-OS
Libraries. Am formulating
one at my place in Andheri where i will rent out
Copies of all FSF - OS
distros....the big to the small for a Fixed
Deposit(100/-) as a safe
keeping, cause very simply i want accountability.
Since i will be on travel or busy with professional
issues, i am have
the same kept at RenDezvous Cyber...a close associate
of mine whose
Cable networks i have been managing for years now.
Will also have a
placard put up outside his place displaying "FSF-OS
library".
Thinking of starting with all the major distros. And
then gauge the
response. Also, will have a list of these put up on
the web for
Students/Others to access.
Any other takers for the same..??. Inputs on the
same???.
What say???.
Trevor
-- ( >- LINUX, It's all about CHOICE -< ) /~\ __ twarren@redhat.com __ /~\ | \) / Pre Sales Consultant - Red Hat \ (/ | |_|_ \ 9820349221(M) | 22881326(O) / _|_| \___________________________________/
Download Milan -- the Hindi interface to GNU/Linux from www.indlinux.org.
Venky,
All of the same needs to propogate across the city, i do agree on the same. But for this to happen the critical mass who believes in it also has to be won over.
Coming sunday we are meeting at KSREIT, 4:00PM. Even on the list no one seems to be taking interest or is plainly jus too busy. Lets guess the feel of the audience for the same when we meet.
Let us know if you have further inputs/ideas about the same.
Trevor
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 12:01, Venkatesh Hariharan wrote:
Trevor,
I think this is a very practical idea. Only issue is that due to Mumbai's humongous size, the collection of OS CDs needs to be available in more geographical localtions so that people can access it without spending a whole day in travelling. Maybe, others on the list can replicate this idea in other locations in Mumbai?
Venky
Quoting Trevor Warren trevorwarren@softhome.net:
Hello Luggers,
Am Experimenting with a new concept. FSF-OS
Libraries. Am formulating
one at my place in Andheri where i will rent out
Copies of all FSF - OS
distros....the big to the small for a Fixed
Deposit(100/-) as a safe
keeping, cause very simply i want accountability.
Since i will be on travel or busy with professional
issues, i am have
the same kept at RenDezvous Cyber...a close associate
of mine whose
Cable networks i have been managing for years now.
Will also have a
placard put up outside his place displaying "FSF-OS
library".
Thinking of starting with all the major distros. And
then gauge the
response. Also, will have a list of these put up on
the web for
Students/Others to access.
Any other takers for the same..??. Inputs on the
same???.
What say???.
Trevor
-- ( >- LINUX, It's all about CHOICE -< ) /~\ __ twarren@redhat.com __ /~\ | \) / Pre Sales Consultant - Red Hat \ (/ | |_|_ \ 9820349221(M) | 22881326(O) / _|_| \___________________________________/
Download Milan -- the Hindi interface to GNU/Linux from www.indlinux.org.
This is a good idea.
Not just borrowing the software, the library should give an option to replicate at a nominal cost so like Venky said, traveling could be an issue so its probably cheaper for a person to travel once to Andheri and make a copy rather than travel twice to borrow and return back. Then the issue of damages etc also come up.
RenDezvous Cyber should decide how much to charge. I think Rs. 50 for a CD is a fair amount.
Typically the costs of the CD is as follows.
- Blank CD of good quality Rs. 10 - Labels Rs. 1-2 - Jewel Case: Rs. 3-5
A good CD Writer costs Rs. 5000-7000. and can burn about 500-1000 CDs. So there is a cost of investment which has to be amortised across the CDs.
A cost of CD Writer + Electricity + Labor = Rs. 10
Total Costs: Rs. 25-30
Regards Prakash
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 15:03, Trevor Warren wrote:
Venky,
All of the same needs to propogate across the city, i do agree on the same. But for this to happen the critical mass who believes in it also has to be won over.
Coming sunday we are meeting at KSREIT, 4:00PM. Even on the list no one seems to be taking interest or is plainly jus too busy. Lets guess the feel of the audience for the same when we meet.
Let us know if you have further inputs/ideas about the same.
Trevor
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 12:01, Venkatesh Hariharan wrote:
Trevor,
I think this is a very practical idea. Only issue is that due to Mumbai's humongous size, the collection of OS CDs needs to be available in more geographical localtions so that people can access it without spending a whole day in travelling. Maybe, others on the list can replicate this idea in other locations in Mumbai?
Venky
Quoting Trevor Warren trevorwarren@softhome.net:
Hello Luggers,
Am Experimenting with a new concept. FSF-OS
Libraries. Am formulating
one at my place in Andheri where i will rent out
Copies of all FSF - OS
distros....the big to the small for a Fixed
Deposit(100/-) as a safe
keeping, cause very simply i want accountability.
Since i will be on travel or busy with professional
issues, i am have
the same kept at RenDezvous Cyber...a close associate
of mine whose
Cable networks i have been managing for years now.
Will also have a
placard put up outside his place displaying "FSF-OS
library".
Thinking of starting with all the major distros. And
then gauge the
response. Also, will have a list of these put up on
the web for
Students/Others to access.
Any other takers for the same..??. Inputs on the
same???.
What say???.
Trevor
-- ( >- LINUX, It's all about CHOICE -< ) /~\ __ twarren@redhat.com __ /~\ | \) / Pre Sales Consultant - Red Hat \ (/ | |_|_ \ 9820349221(M) | 22881326(O) / _|_| \___________________________________/
Download Milan -- the Hindi interface to GNU/Linux from www.indlinux.org.
Keeping it running is the challenge. We have tried this in Goa.
The options are:
o Privately-run, user-group supported. o Individual non-profit initiative o User-group run.
We don need a network of people across India who are convinced that Free Software is about sharing and building the community. What say? FN
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003, Prakash Advani wrote:
This is a good idea.
Not just borrowing the software, the library should give an option to replicate at a nominal cost so like Venky said, traveling could be an issue so its probably cheaper for a person to travel once to Andheri and make a copy rather than travel twice to borrow and return back. Then the issue of damages etc also come up.
RenDezvous Cyber should decide how much to charge. I think Rs. 50 for a CD is a fair amount.
Typically the costs of the CD is as follows.
- Blank CD of good quality Rs. 10
- Labels Rs. 1-2
- Jewel Case: Rs. 3-5
A good CD Writer costs Rs. 5000-7000. and can burn about 500-1000 CDs. So there is a cost of investment which has to be amortised across the CDs.
A cost of CD Writer + Electricity + Labor = Rs. 10
Total Costs: Rs. 25-30
Regards Prakash
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 15:03, Trevor Warren wrote:
Venky,
All of the same needs to propogate across the city, i do agree on the same. But for this to happen the critical mass who believes in it also has to be won over.
Coming sunday we are meeting at KSREIT, 4:00PM. Even on the list no one seems to be taking interest or is plainly jus too busy. Lets guess the feel of the audience for the same when we meet.
Let us know if you have further inputs/ideas about the same.
Trevor
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 12:01, Venkatesh Hariharan wrote:
Trevor,
I think this is a very practical idea. Only issue is that due to Mumbai's humongous size, the collection of OS CDs needs to be available in more geographical localtions so that people can access it without spending a whole day in travelling. Maybe, others on the list can replicate this idea in other locations in Mumbai?
Venky
Quoting Trevor Warren trevorwarren@softhome.net:
Hello Luggers,
Am Experimenting with a new concept. FSF-OS
Libraries. Am formulating
one at my place in Andheri where i will rent out
Copies of all FSF - OS
distros....the big to the small for a Fixed
Deposit(100/-) as a safe
keeping, cause very simply i want accountability.
Since i will be on travel or busy with professional
issues, i am have
the same kept at RenDezvous Cyber...a close associate
of mine whose
Cable networks i have been managing for years now.
Will also have a
placard put up outside his place displaying "FSF-OS
library".
Thinking of starting with all the major distros. And
then gauge the
response. Also, will have a list of these put up on
the web for
Students/Others to access.
Any other takers for the same..??. Inputs on the
same???.
What say???.
Trevor
-- ( >- LINUX, It's all about CHOICE -< ) /~\ __ twarren@redhat.com __ /~\ | \) / Pre Sales Consultant - Red Hat \ (/ | |_|_ \ 9820349221(M) | 22881326(O) / _|_| \___________________________________/
Download Milan -- the Hindi interface to GNU/Linux from www.indlinux.org.
FN,
As of now i am gonna push the indivizual run non-profit library which will be backed by the LUG in terms of support/distros.
We don need a network of people across India who are convinced that Free Software is about sharing and building the community. What say? FN
[snip]
I believe FN, that in our own ways we should do our best till the days we kick the bucket to educate people around us on the variety of options available. The choice to choose or reject rests with them always.
Do you have any sets of cd's to dedicate towards the library. The bigger collection i get the better it would be. Later PROBABLY i could look at Free Software - Open Source and Linux books as part of the library.
Trevor
On Mon, 2003-07-14 at 15:51, Frederick Noronha (FN) wrote:
Keeping it running is the challenge. We have tried this in Goa.
The options are:
o Privately-run, user-group supported. o Individual non-profit initiative o User-group run.
We don need a network of people across India who are convinced that Free Software is about sharing and building the community. What say? FN
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003, Prakash Advani wrote:
This is a good idea.
Not just borrowing the software, the library should give an option to replicate at a nominal cost so like Venky said, traveling could be an issue so its probably cheaper for a person to travel once to Andheri and make a copy rather than travel twice to borrow and return back. Then the issue of damages etc also come up.
RenDezvous Cyber should decide how much to charge. I think Rs. 50 for a CD is a fair amount.
Typically the costs of the CD is as follows.
- Blank CD of good quality Rs. 10
- Labels Rs. 1-2
- Jewel Case: Rs. 3-5
A good CD Writer costs Rs. 5000-7000. and can burn about 500-1000 CDs. So there is a cost of investment which has to be amortised across the CDs.
A cost of CD Writer + Electricity + Labor = Rs. 10
Total Costs: Rs. 25-30
Regards Prakash
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 15:03, Trevor Warren wrote:
Venky,
All of the same needs to propogate across the city, i do agree on the same. But for this to happen the critical mass who believes in it also has to be won over.
Coming sunday we are meeting at KSREIT, 4:00PM. Even on the list no one seems to be taking interest or is plainly jus too busy. Lets guess the feel of the audience for the same when we meet.
Let us know if you have further inputs/ideas about the same.
Trevor
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 12:01, Venkatesh Hariharan wrote:
Trevor,
I think this is a very practical idea. Only issue is that due to Mumbai's humongous size, the collection of OS CDs needs to be available in more geographical localtions so that people can access it without spending a whole day in travelling. Maybe, others on the list can replicate this idea in other locations in Mumbai?
Venky
Quoting Trevor Warren trevorwarren@softhome.net:
Hello Luggers,
Am Experimenting with a new concept. FSF-OS
Libraries. Am formulating
one at my place in Andheri where i will rent out
Copies of all FSF - OS
distros....the big to the small for a Fixed
Deposit(100/-) as a safe
keeping, cause very simply i want accountability.
Since i will be on travel or busy with professional
issues, i am have
the same kept at RenDezvous Cyber...a close associate
of mine whose
Cable networks i have been managing for years now.
Will also have a
placard put up outside his place displaying "FSF-OS
library".
Thinking of starting with all the major distros. And
then gauge the
response. Also, will have a list of these put up on
the web for
Students/Others to access.
Any other takers for the same..??. Inputs on the
same???.
What say???.
Trevor
-- ( >- LINUX, It's all about CHOICE -< ) /~\ __ twarren@redhat.com __ /~\ | \) / Pre Sales Consultant - Red Hat \ (/ | |_|_ \ 9820349221(M) | 22881326(O) / _|_| \___________________________________/
Download Milan -- the Hindi interface to GNU/Linux from www.indlinux.org.
Hi, What all OS CD images are needed to get a FSF-OS library up and running
I currently have Debian/RH/Knoppix/UnitedLinux/Crux/Darwin and have access to 1024kbps inet link so can get almost anything needed in two days max. Once CD writer dedicated to Linux is also there.
Other distros eg SuSe/Mndrk are -=commercial=- as I know and cannot be freely copied or leased etc if u do not buy them, what other OS images are good that have to keep the library complete/updated.
thanks Ripunjay Bararia
-----Original Message----- From: linuxers-bounces@mm.ilug-bom.org.in [mailto:linuxers-bounces@mm.ilug-bom.org.in]On Behalf Of Trevor Warren Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 20:16 To: Frederick Noronha (FN) Cc: Venkatesh (Venky) "Hariharan; Venky H; Prakash Advani; Trevor Warren; "Dr.Nagarjuna"; Gnu-Linux Users Group of bombay Subject: [ILUG-BOM] Re: funded FSF-OS libraries.
GLUG Meeting on 13th July, 4pm at KReSIT, IIT Campus, Powai. ---------------------------------------------------------- FN,
As of now i am gonna push the indivizual run non-profit library which will be backed by the LUG in terms of support/distros.
We don need a network of people across India who are convinced that Free Software is about sharing and building the community. What say? FN
[snip]
I believe FN, that in our own ways we should do our best till the days we kick the bucket to educate people around us on the variety of options available. The choice to choose or reject rests with them always.
Do you have any sets of cd's to dedicate towards the library. The bigger collection i get the better it would be. Later PROBABLY i could look at Free Software - Open Source and Linux books as part of the library.
Trevor
On Mon, 2003-07-14 at 15:51, Frederick Noronha (FN) wrote:
Keeping it running is the challenge. We have tried this in Goa.
The options are:
o Privately-run, user-group supported. o Individual non-profit initiative o User-group run.
We don need a network of people across India who are convinced that Free Software is about sharing and building the community. What say? FN
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003, Prakash Advani wrote:
This is a good idea.
Not just borrowing the software, the library should give an option to replicate at a nominal cost so like Venky said, traveling could be an issue so its probably cheaper for a person to travel once to Andheri and make a copy rather than travel twice to borrow and return back. Then the issue of damages etc also come up.
RenDezvous Cyber should decide how much to charge. I think Rs. 50 for a CD is a fair amount.
Typically the costs of the CD is as follows.
- Blank CD of good quality Rs. 10
- Labels Rs. 1-2
- Jewel Case: Rs. 3-5
A good CD Writer costs Rs. 5000-7000. and can burn about 500-1000 CDs. So there is a cost of investment which has to be amortised across the CDs.
A cost of CD Writer + Electricity + Labor = Rs. 10
Total Costs: Rs. 25-30
Regards Prakash
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 15:03, Trevor Warren wrote:
Venky,
All of the same needs to propogate across the city, i do agree on
the
same. But for this to happen the critical mass who believes in it also has to be won over.
Coming sunday we are meeting at KSREIT, 4:00PM. Even on the list no one seems to be taking interest or is plainly jus too busy. Lets guess the feel of the audience for the same when we meet.
Let us know if you have further inputs/ideas about the same.
Trevor
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 12:01, Venkatesh Hariharan wrote:
Trevor,
I think this is a very practical idea. Only issue is that due to Mumbai's humongous size, the collection of OS CDs needs to be available in more geographical localtions so that people can access it without spending a whole day in travelling. Maybe, others on the list can replicate this idea in other locations in Mumbai?
Venky
Quoting Trevor Warren trevorwarren@softhome.net:
Hello Luggers,
Am Experimenting with a new concept. FSF-OS
Libraries. Am formulating
one at my place in Andheri where i will rent out
Copies of all FSF - OS
distros....the big to the small for a Fixed
Deposit(100/-) as a safe
keeping, cause very simply i want accountability.
Since i will be on travel or busy with professional
issues, i am have
the same kept at RenDezvous Cyber...a close associate
of mine whose
Cable networks i have been managing for years now.
Will also have a
placard put up outside his place displaying "FSF-OS
library".
Thinking of starting with all the major distros. And
then gauge the
response. Also, will have a list of these put up on
the web for
Students/Others to access.
Any other takers for the same..??. Inputs on the
same???.
What say???.
Trevor
-- ( >- LINUX, It's all about CHOICE -< ) /~\ __ twarren@redhat.com __ /~\ | \) / Pre Sales Consultant - Red Hat \ (/ | |_|_ \ 9820349221(M) | 22881326(O) / _|_| \___________________________________/
Download Milan -- the Hindi interface to GNU/Linux from www.indlinux.org.
-- ( >- LINUX, It's all about CHOICE -< ) /~\ __ twarren@redhat.com __ /~\ | ) / Pre Sales Consultant - Red Hat \ (/ | |_|_ \ 9820349221(M) | 22881326(O) / _|_| ___________________________________/
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Ripunjay Bararia (ILUG-MUM) wrote:
~ Other distros eg SuSe/Mndrk are -=commercial=- as I know and cannot be ~ freely copied or ~ leased etc if u do not buy them, what other OS images are good that have to ~ keep the library
This is untrue. AFAIK you are free to copy and distribute them as much as you like.
Though some prerelease versions may come with special terms and conditions.
On 18/07/03 15:40 +0000, Amit Upadhyay wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Ripunjay Bararia (ILUG-MUM) wrote:
~ Other distros eg SuSe/Mndrk are -=commercial=- as I know and cannot be ~ freely copied or ~ leased etc if u do not buy them, what other OS images are good that have to ~ keep the library
This is untrue. AFAIK you are free to copy and distribute them as much as you like.
The CD images are copyrighted. You cannot sell those CDs. You have full right to redistribute the GPLed/BSD licensed content as per the license, but the right to distribute that particular image is not available.
Devdas Bhagat
On Friday 18 Jul 2003 10:23 pm, Devdas Bhagat wrote:
On 18/07/03 15:40 +0000, Amit Upadhyay wrote:
The CD images are copyrighted. You cannot sell those CDs. You have full right to redistribute the GPLed/BSD licensed content as per the license, but the right to distribute that particular image is not available.
As per what? I just checked both SuSE 8.2 and Mandrake 9.1, and cant locate any such term! In fact Mandrake's README.txt says:
The contents of this CD-ROM are Copyright (C) 2003 MandrakeSoft S.A. and others. Please see the individual copyright notices in each source package for distribution terms. The distribution terms of the tools copyrighted by MandrakeSoft and Red Hat Software are as noted in the file COPYING.
Where COPYING contains full text of GPL.
Similerly the only thing talking about copying in Suse 8.2 is the same full text of GPL COPYING file.
Am I missing something?
Amit,
Right, i don't think how any vendor can stop us from re-distributing any distro of Gnu-Linux expecially since all are based on the GPl.
Red Hat is the cleanest of the lot while SuSE being the worst among packaging tons of Commercial applications on them.
Making these cd's part of an OS-FSF library should be 100% permissible unless certain legal departments wanna talk to me about the same.
Trevor
On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 23:12, Amit Upadhyay wrote:
On Friday 18 Jul 2003 10:23 pm, Devdas Bhagat wrote:
On 18/07/03 15:40 +0000, Amit Upadhyay wrote:
The CD images are copyrighted. You cannot sell those CDs. You have full right to redistribute the GPLed/BSD licensed content as per the license, but the right to distribute that particular image is not available.
As per what? I just checked both SuSE 8.2 and Mandrake 9.1, and cant locate any such term! In fact Mandrake's README.txt says:
The contents of this CD-ROM are Copyright (C) 2003 MandrakeSoft S.A. and others. Please see the individual copyright notices in each source package for distribution terms. The distribution terms of the tools copyrighted by MandrakeSoft and Red Hat Software are as noted in the file COPYING.
Where COPYING contains full text of GPL.
Similerly the only thing talking about copying in Suse 8.2 is the same full text of GPL COPYING file.
Am I missing something?
On Saturday 19 July 2003 11:45, Trevor Warren wrote:
Amit,
Right, i don't think how any vendor can stop us from
re-distributing
any distro of Gnu-Linux expecially since all are based on the GPl.
U can distribute any distro. What you are not allowed is naming your copy as Redhat (dont know if the same terms are used by other distros like Suse). The intent is to protect the Redhat brand - which is quite fair considering the fact that the commercial distros spend considerable sums (doubt they spend anything at all in India) promoting their distros as a service. Besides I dont see much of a point promoting commercial distros via the library. None of them have come forward to donate cds. Instead of wasting time behind them just promote Debian and Knoppix. Knoppix has done a job far exceeding any of the commercial distros in taking Linux to the individuals desktop.
rgds jtdsouza@softhome.net
Ripunjay, Good-day.
You did say...
I currently have Debian/RH/Knoppix/UnitedLinux/Crux/Darwin and have access to 1024kbps inet link so can get almost anything needed in two days max. Once CD writer dedicated to Linux is also there.
[snip]
As of now i do badly need the following:
* Debian ( Need stable + Unstable ) * SuSE ( Need to stock all the versions which are GPL ) * Gentoo ( Any and all versions we can get ) * Knoppix(en) ( Any and all versions we can get ) * Yellow Dog ( Any and all versions we can get ) * Slackware ( Any and all versions we can get ) * Red Hat + SGI XFS ( Any and all versions we can get ) * Lycoris ( Any and all versions we can get ) * Mandrake (other than 8.2 and 9.0...older releases) * trustix ( Any and all versions we can get ) * turbolinux ( Any and all versions we can get ) * LDP(www.tldp.org) * Collection of FSF-OS ebooks-docs. * FreeBSD 5.0 + ( Any and all versions we can get ) * OpenBSD ( Any and all versions we can get ) * NetBSD ( Any and all versions we can get ) * etc related to FSF-OS.
Your help towards building a kit which we could then replicate for anyone else who wants to setup an OS-FSF library would be appreciated.
Call me on 9820349221 if you would like to help out towards building the resource kit. The cd's i can pay for.
Trevor
On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 14:06, Ripunjay Bararia (ILUG-MUM) wrote:
Hi, What all OS CD images are needed to get a FSF-OS library up and running
I currently have Debian/RH/Knoppix/UnitedLinux/Crux/Darwin and have access to 1024kbps inet link so can get almost anything needed in two days max. Once CD writer dedicated to Linux is also there.
Other distros eg SuSe/Mndrk are -=commercial=- as I know and cannot be freely copied or leased etc if u do not buy them, what other OS images are good that have to keep the library complete/updated.
thanks Ripunjay Bararia
-----Original Message----- From: linuxers-bounces@mm.ilug-bom.org.in [mailto:linuxers-bounces@mm.ilug-bom.org.in]On Behalf Of Trevor Warren Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 20:16 To: Frederick Noronha (FN) Cc: Venkatesh (Venky) "Hariharan; Venky H; Prakash Advani; Trevor Warren; "Dr.Nagarjuna"; Gnu-Linux Users Group of bombay Subject: [ILUG-BOM] Re: funded FSF-OS libraries.
GLUG Meeting on 13th July, 4pm at KReSIT, IIT Campus, Powai.
FN,
As of now i am gonna push the indivizual run non-profit library which will be backed by the LUG in terms of support/distros.
We don need a network of people across India who are convinced that Free Software is about sharing and building the community. What say? FN
[snip]
I believe FN, that in our own ways we should do our best till the days we kick the bucket to educate people around us on the variety of options available. The choice to choose or reject rests with them always.
Do you have any sets of cd's to dedicate towards the library. The bigger collection i get the better it would be. Later PROBABLY i could look at Free Software - Open Source and Linux books as part of the library.
Trevor
On Mon, 2003-07-14 at 15:51, Frederick Noronha (FN) wrote:
Keeping it running is the challenge. We have tried this in Goa.
The options are:
o Privately-run, user-group supported. o Individual non-profit initiative o User-group run.
We don need a network of people across India who are convinced that Free Software is about sharing and building the community. What say? FN
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003, Prakash Advani wrote:
This is a good idea.
Not just borrowing the software, the library should give an option to replicate at a nominal cost so like Venky said, traveling could be an issue so its probably cheaper for a person to travel once to Andheri and make a copy rather than travel twice to borrow and return back. Then the issue of damages etc also come up.
RenDezvous Cyber should decide how much to charge. I think Rs. 50 for a CD is a fair amount.
Typically the costs of the CD is as follows.
- Blank CD of good quality Rs. 10
- Labels Rs. 1-2
- Jewel Case: Rs. 3-5
A good CD Writer costs Rs. 5000-7000. and can burn about 500-1000 CDs. So there is a cost of investment which has to be amortised across the CDs.
A cost of CD Writer + Electricity + Labor = Rs. 10
Total Costs: Rs. 25-30
Regards Prakash
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 15:03, Trevor Warren wrote:
Venky,
All of the same needs to propogate across the city, i do agree on
the
same. But for this to happen the critical mass who believes in it also has to be won over.
Coming sunday we are meeting at KSREIT, 4:00PM. Even on the list no one seems to be taking interest or is plainly jus too busy. Lets guess the feel of the audience for the same when we meet.
Let us know if you have further inputs/ideas about the same.
Trevor
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 12:01, Venkatesh Hariharan wrote:
Trevor,
I think this is a very practical idea. Only issue is that due to Mumbai's humongous size, the collection of OS CDs needs to be available in more geographical localtions so that people can access it without spending a whole day in travelling. Maybe, others on the list can replicate this idea in other locations in Mumbai?
Venky
Quoting Trevor Warren trevorwarren@softhome.net:
Hello Luggers,
Am Experimenting with a new concept. FSF-OS
Libraries. Am formulating
one at my place in Andheri where i will rent out
Copies of all FSF - OS
distros....the big to the small for a Fixed
Deposit(100/-) as a safe
keeping, cause very simply i want accountability.
Since i will be on travel or busy with professional
issues, i am have
the same kept at RenDezvous Cyber...a close associate
of mine whose
Cable networks i have been managing for years now.
Will also have a
placard put up outside his place displaying "FSF-OS
library".
Thinking of starting with all the major distros. And
then gauge the
response. Also, will have a list of these put up on
the web for
Students/Others to access.
Any other takers for the same..??. Inputs on the
same???.
What say???.
Trevor
-- ( >- LINUX, It's all about CHOICE -< ) /~\ __ twarren@redhat.com __ /~\ | \) / Pre Sales Consultant - Red Hat \ (/ | |_|_ \ 9820349221(M) | 22881326(O) / _|_| \___________________________________/
Download Milan -- the Hindi interface to GNU/Linux from www.indlinux.org.
-- ( >- LINUX, It's all about CHOICE -< ) /~\ __ twarren@redhat.com __ /~\ | ) / Pre Sales Consultant - Red Hat \ (/ | |_|_ \ 9820349221(M) | 22881326(O) / _|_| ___________________________________/
On 19 Jul 2003 11:45:03 +0530, Trevor Warren wrote
Ripunjay, Good-day.
You did say...
I currently have Debian/RH/Knoppix/UnitedLinux/Crux/Darwin and have access to 1024kbps inet link so can get almost anything needed in two days max. Once CD writer dedicated to Linux is also there.
Ripunjay's offer is excellent. This is a great gesture. With support coming the library idea seems to be materializing. If you need any help, such as stock them for sounth-mumbai or Chembur area do let me know.
Nagarjuna
On Saturday 19 Jul 2003 2:31 pm, Nagarjuna G. wrote:
Ripunjay's offer is excellent. This is a great gesture. With support coming the library idea seems to be materializing. If you need any help, such as stock them for sounth-mumbai or Chembur area do let me know.
Its nice to see the FSF-OS library taking off. But that still has some limitations, like one has to go the library and get the CDs. Then these are to returned too, which will add to hassle. Why not we start a on-list CD delivery scheme as I posted sometimes back.
-------->> From one of my old post:
What I feel is, one should not look at it as a major commercial initiative, its an affort done in good faith to popularize linux in India, not a way to make money. If that is so, we dont need all that formal mechanism. How about, someone [via a php script on ilug-bombays webpage or mailing list] posts a request for a CD.Someone from the list voulanteers to meet the request, gives his address, the concerned person sends a draft/cheque, and the volunteer cuts and couriers the CD. Its only 100 Rs or so max per request, so if someone voulanteers and runs away after getting money, he would only do it once with some loss of face.
This will involve a repository of CDs or ISOs. Making available a variety of distribution to local users would be a great service. One can ask other LUGs for donation of CDs to initially build a nice archieve, and the list published on ilug-bombay homepage, along with the proposed mechanism, so that a person is aware of the risks before sending money, as well as list or number of requests successfully served by respective voulanteers to build the confidance. Its not essential, group can warn poeple if someone is eating money.
If Kapil gets bored doing this, he can hand over his collection to other voulanteer, or even better we have more than one voulanteers from the begining.
There are some 5-6 standard linux distributions, and tens of experimental/special purpose ones, Mumbai, as the biggest city of India, deserves easy access to them.
------>
It assumes the voulanteer has an archieve of CDs and a CD-writer. Plus the voulanteer will be taking care of couriering the CDs. But I feel Rs 60 + Rs 30 X No of CDs ordered type of mechanism should give some financial incentive. [System may be totally bidding based, but I dont want the voulanteers to suffer, so we may get some bottom lines, and first voulanteer first option norms to keep things fair.]
What others think about it?
Hello there,
What about companies sponsoring give away cd packs. This we can burn ad courier for free across the country.
Anyone wants to come forward for the same?. Just letting my imagination run wild on this....;)
Trevor
On Sat, 2003-07-19 at 16:16, Amit Upadhyay wrote:
On Saturday 19 Jul 2003 2:31 pm, Nagarjuna G. wrote:
Ripunjay's offer is excellent. This is a great gesture. With support coming the library idea seems to be materializing. If you need any help, such as stock them for sounth-mumbai or Chembur area do let me know.
Its nice to see the FSF-OS library taking off. But that still has some limitations, like one has to go the library and get the CDs. Then these are to returned too, which will add to hassle. Why not we start a on-list CD delivery scheme as I posted sometimes back.
-------->> From one of my old post:
What I feel is, one should not look at it as a major commercial initiative, its an affort done in good faith to popularize linux in India, not a way to make money. If that is so, we dont need all that formal mechanism. How about, someone [via a php script on ilug-bombays webpage or mailing list] posts a request for a CD.Someone from the list voulanteers to meet the request, gives his address, the concerned person sends a draft/cheque, and the volunteer cuts and couriers the CD. Its only 100 Rs or so max per request, so if someone voulanteers and runs away after getting money, he would only do it once with some loss of face.
This will involve a repository of CDs or ISOs. Making available a variety of distribution to local users would be a great service. One can ask other LUGs for donation of CDs to initially build a nice archieve, and the list published on ilug-bombay homepage, along with the proposed mechanism, so that a person is aware of the risks before sending money, as well as list or number of requests successfully served by respective voulanteers to build the confidance. Its not essential, group can warn poeple if someone is eating money.
If Kapil gets bored doing this, he can hand over his collection to other voulanteer, or even better we have more than one voulanteers from the begining.
There are some 5-6 standard linux distributions, and tens of experimental/special purpose ones, Mumbai, as the biggest city of India, deserves easy access to them.
------>
It assumes the voulanteer has an archieve of CDs and a CD-writer. Plus the voulanteer will be taking care of couriering the CDs. But I feel Rs 60 + Rs 30 X No of CDs ordered type of mechanism should give some financial incentive. [System may be totally bidding based, but I dont want the voulanteers to suffer, so we may get some bottom lines, and first voulanteer first option norms to keep things fair.]
What others think about it?
I'm residing at Goregaon, so might not be able to STOCK, but i could cut a copy if everything i have and deliver it to you if you can send me links that i should download and keep.
thanks Ripunjay
-----Original Message----- From: Nagarjuna G. [mailto:nagarjun@hbcse.tifr.res.in] Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 14:31 To: Trevor Warren; ilug-mum@ddcpl.com; GNU/Linux "Users Group,Mumbai,"India Cc: Fredrick Noronha Subject: Re: funded FSF-OS libraries.
On 19 Jul 2003 11:45:03 +0530, Trevor Warren wrote
Ripunjay, Good-day.
You did say...
I currently have Debian/RH/Knoppix/UnitedLinux/Crux/Darwin and have access to 1024kbps inet link so can get almost anything needed in two days max. Once CD
writer
dedicated to Linux is also there.
Ripunjay's offer is excellent. This is a great gesture. With support coming the library idea seems to be materializing. If you need any help, such as stock them for sounth-mumbai or Chembur area do let me know.
Nagarjuna
We will need repositories all across bombay too. Librarians WANTED. Please come forward and nominate your selves.
The cd set we will share a copy of each of the distros we have with us. Should be about 10-12 distros to start with both Linux+Gnu System and *BSD.
Trevor
On Sat, 2003-07-19 at 14:31, Nagarjuna G. wrote:
On 19 Jul 2003 11:45:03 +0530, Trevor Warren wrote
Ripunjay, Good-day.
You did say...
I currently have Debian/RH/Knoppix/UnitedLinux/Crux/Darwin and have access to 1024kbps inet link so can get almost anything needed in two days max. Once CD writer dedicated to Linux is also there.
Ripunjay's offer is excellent. This is a great gesture. With support coming the library idea seems to be materializing. If you need any help, such as stock them for sounth-mumbai or Chembur area do let me know.
Nagarjuna
Prakash,
Am glad that you have too given your inputs on the same. Lemme assure you all that i am in an experimenting mode and am trying to figure out something that will catch on with the localites in and around. FSF - OS cd's and books would be a great resource to share with the community in and around andheri.
As for burning these cd's, i won't command that overhead on the librarian. If he/she chooses to do the same, its perfectly fine with me. As for the damages part of it, all those who rent out have to put in a 100/- refundable deposit. Damages will be deducted from the same.
And for every transaction of renting a set of cd's irrespective of the nos we will deduct 10/- from the deposit. This is a basic model with minimalistic economic benefits for the distributor/librarian.
Wanna help refining the same??.
Trevor
On Mon, 2003-07-14 at 15:37, Prakash Advani wrote:
This is a good idea.
Not just borrowing the software, the library should give an option to replicate at a nominal cost so like Venky said, traveling could be an issue so its probably cheaper for a person to travel once to Andheri and make a copy rather than travel twice to borrow and return back. Then the issue of damages etc also come up.
RenDezvous Cyber should decide how much to charge. I think Rs. 50 for a CD is a fair amount.
Typically the costs of the CD is as follows.
- Blank CD of good quality Rs. 10
- Labels Rs. 1-2
- Jewel Case: Rs. 3-5
A good CD Writer costs Rs. 5000-7000. and can burn about 500-1000 CDs. So there is a cost of investment which has to be amortised across the CDs.
A cost of CD Writer + Electricity + Labor = Rs. 10
Total Costs: Rs. 25-30
Regards Prakash
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 15:03, Trevor Warren wrote:
Venky,
All of the same needs to propogate across the city, i do agree on the same. But for this to happen the critical mass who believes in it also has to be won over.
Coming sunday we are meeting at KSREIT, 4:00PM. Even on the list no one seems to be taking interest or is plainly jus too busy. Lets guess the feel of the audience for the same when we meet.
Let us know if you have further inputs/ideas about the same.
Trevor
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 12:01, Venkatesh Hariharan wrote:
Trevor,
I think this is a very practical idea. Only issue is that due to Mumbai's humongous size, the collection of OS CDs needs to be available in more geographical localtions so that people can access it without spending a whole day in travelling. Maybe, others on the list can replicate this idea in other locations in Mumbai?
Venky
Quoting Trevor Warren trevorwarren@softhome.net:
Hello Luggers,
Am Experimenting with a new concept. FSF-OS
Libraries. Am formulating
one at my place in Andheri where i will rent out
Copies of all FSF - OS
distros....the big to the small for a Fixed
Deposit(100/-) as a safe
keeping, cause very simply i want accountability.
Since i will be on travel or busy with professional
issues, i am have
the same kept at RenDezvous Cyber...a close associate
of mine whose
Cable networks i have been managing for years now.
Will also have a
placard put up outside his place displaying "FSF-OS
library".
Thinking of starting with all the major distros. And
then gauge the
response. Also, will have a list of these put up on
the web for
Students/Others to access.
Any other takers for the same..??. Inputs on the
same???.
What say???.
Trevor
Download Milan -- the Hindi interface to GNU/Linux from www.indlinux.org.
-
Amit Upadhyay -
Devdas Bhagat -
Frederick Noronha (FN) -
J. T. D'souza -
K i r ＠ n G h a g -
Nagarjuna G. -
Prakash Advani -
Ripunjay Bararia (ILUG-MUM) -
Trevor Warren -
Trevor Warren -
Trevor Warren -
Venkatesh Hariharan