Hi,
We are in a process of setting up wifi hot spots in a chain of restaurant.
I wanted to what are the new rules of Govt. regarding such hot spots.
Anyone having idea related to it? Please email me on richard at florix.net
Thanks, Richard Victor Correia PH: +91 9004911199
On Friday 14 January 2011 14:49:03 Richard Victor Correia wrote:
Hi,
We are in a process of setting up wifi hot spots in a chain of restaurant.
I wanted to what are the new rules of Govt. regarding such hot spots.
Open networks are banned. Terrorist mails and all that. I am happy that nobody can bomb us via wifi. Thank you O Mighty Mandarins of the home ministry for such brilliance.
Open networks are banned. Terrorist mails and all that. I am happy that nobody can bomb us via wifi. Thank you O Mighty Mandarins of the home ministry for such brilliance.
In US you find open/free wifi every where? A country which is much more concerned about security. Here in Germany open wi-fi is illegal, a country which doesn't much care about terrorists. So, what's India's stand? If you have a router at home do you have to keep it encrypted? Can't you still track users through device ID?
~ Swapnil Muktware.com
2011/1/15 Swapnil swapnil.bhartiya@gmail.com:
In US you find open/free wifi every where? A country which is much more concerned about security. Here in Germany open wi-fi is illegal, a country which doesn't much care about terrorists. So, what's India's stand? If you have a router at home do you have to keep it encrypted? Can't you still track users through device ID?
Heh. US is concerned about security? That's a joke. They run what Schneier calls a "Security Theatre", that's all.
Second: I think you need to read up on contemporary German history (post WW2) - they have suffered a lot from terrorism than many of their European neighbours. Look up Baader-Meinhof, for example. Or the sad events of Munich Olympics of 1972.
India's stand - so far, nothing. If someone runs an open Wifi and if that connection is used to make mischief by persons unknown, the owner of the access point is "questioned" until he's cleared.
I personally prefer to have the choice of running an open Wifi or not, mine. Not enforced by the government.
Binand
Heh. US is concerned about security? That's a joke. They run what Schneier calls a "Security Theatre", that's all.
Whatever you call it, the country is concerned about security. We go there half a dozen time an year so, I am telling by experience. The nation has been under constant attack so we need security, which may appear to be circus to many others.
Second: I think you need to read up on contemporary German history (post WW2) - they have suffered a lot from terrorism than many of their European neighbours. Look up Baader-Meinhof, for example. Or the sad events of Munich Olympics of 1972.
I live in Germany and I know first hand about security 'concerns' in Europe. There is a fine of Euro 100 if your wifi is open. The law came in force owing to Google's WiFi data collection accusation.
India's stand - so far, nothing. If someone runs an open Wifi and if that connection is used to make mischief by persons unknown, the owner of the access point is "questioned" until he's cleared.
Questioning is another thing. Technically, will he be responsible for violation or the one who accessed it as it was open? What does the court say? Any cases?
I personally prefer to have the choice of running an open Wifi or not, mine. Not enforced by the government.
A bit tricky. Just that should a rider have a choice to wear a helmet/drive to wear seatbelts or should there be some rules enforced by the govt to minimize damage?
Swapnil
2011/1/15 Swapnil swapnil.bhartiya@gmail.com:
Whatever you call it, the country is concerned about security. We go there half a dozen time an year so, I am telling by experience. The nation has been under constant attack so we need security, which may appear to be circus to many others.
What? the strip-searches and whole body scanners? Things that have been thoroughly debunked by experts in the field? This is a whole debate in itself and perhaps largely OT here, so let us take this off-list.
Questioning is another thing. Technically, will he be responsible for violation or the one who accessed it as it was open? What does the court say? Any cases?
No precedents yet. And as far as I know, there is no law that prohibits open Wifi in India, so there is no violation or reason for going to a court.
I personally prefer to have the choice of running an open Wifi or not, mine. Not enforced by the government.
A bit tricky. Just that should a rider have a choice to wear a helmet/drive to wear seatbelts or should there be some rules enforced by the govt to minimize damage?
Well - the difference is that you venture out without helmet/seat belt onto *public* roads - where this decision of yours could very well make the difference whether someone else using the very same public road is charged with simply "rash driving" or the more serious and life-changing "culpable homicide not amounting to murder".
But on the other hand, you run an open Wifi AP on your *private* property - which is yours to do as you damn well please.
Binand
On Saturday 15 Jan 2011, Binand Sethumadhavan wrote:
No precedents yet. And as far as I know, there is no law that prohibits open Wifi in India, so there is no violation or reason for going to a court.
Actually, if you run an open WiFi you are technically an ISP and need a licence.
Regards,
-- Raj
2011/1/16 Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) raju@linux-delhi.org:
Actually, if you run an open WiFi you are technically an ISP and need a licence.
Makes sense, if one can think the way our babus do.
I am assuming that if I run a WPA-PSK Wifi then I don't need a license.
In this case, does the law prohibit me from setting my SSID as "The PSK is fubar" and the PSK as "fubar"? :-)
Not that I'm ever going to try.
Binand
2011/1/15 Swapnil swapnil.bhartiya@gmail.com:
In US you find open/free wifi every where? A country which is much more concerned about security. Here in Germany open wi-fi is illegal, a country which doesn't much care about terrorists. So, what's India's stand? If you have a router at home do you have to keep it encrypted? Can't you still track users through device ID?
Heh. US is concerned about security? That's a joke. They run what Schneier calls a "Security Theatre", that's all.
Second: I think you need to read up on contemporary German history (post WW2) - they have suffered a lot from terrorism than many of their European neighbours. Look up Baader-Meinhof, for example. Or the sad events of Munich Olympics of 1972.
afaik, Germany outlawing open wifi networks has nothing to do with terrorism, but to do with trying to prevent piracy, i.e. making the person who owns the access point responsible for content downloaded illegally through his / her network: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100512/1116409394.shtml
India's stand - so far, nothing. If someone runs an open Wifi and if that connection is used to make mischief by persons unknown, the owner of the access point is "questioned" until he's cleared.
I think there is a law against 'open' wireless networks - not sure what the definition of 'open wireless network' is though - for eg. I think it would be legal (or it least I see these a lot in practice) where the access point is running an open network but it doesn't allow access to 'the internet' unless a user is logged in through some web based authentication mechanism or so. Not sure what the OPs business model is in this case - is it something like Tikona Wi-Bro? They seem to have decent coverage in Bombay ..
I personally prefer to have the choice of running an open Wifi or not, mine. Not enforced by the government.
Personally, I find this paranoia around open wireless networks to be quite silly, and quite agree. Ah well.
-Sanjay
Binand
On Saturday 15 January 2011 10:04 PM, Sanjay B wrote:
afaik, Germany outlawing open wifi networks has nothing to do with terrorism, but to do with trying to prevent piracy, i.e. making the person who owns the access point responsible for content downloaded illegally through his / her network: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100512/1116409394.shtml
There is a saying in Gujarati which roughly translates as "If you sleep on the grass with your bum exposed and a crow pecks it, it is not the crow's fault".
On Saturday 15 January 2011 08:51 PM, Binand Sethumadhavan wrote:
India's stand - so far, nothing. If someone runs an open Wifi and if that connection is used to make mischief by persons unknown, the owner of the access point is "questioned" until he's cleared.
I personally prefer to have the choice of running an open Wifi or not, mine. Not enforced by the government.
Freedom is a shared resource. You take some and leave the rest for others. Everyone does not understand this and there are some who hog too much of it, creating a shortage for others.
On Saturday 15 January 2011 20:01:16 Swapnil wrote:
Open networks are banned. Terrorist mails and all that. I am happy that nobody can bomb us via wifi. Thank you O Mighty Mandarins of the home ministry for such brilliance.
In US you find open/free wifi every where? A country which is much more concerned about security. Here in Germany open wi-fi is illegal, a country which doesn't much care about terrorists. So, what's India's stand? If you have a router at home do you have to keep it encrypted?
Yes
Can't you still track users through device ID?
How would you track someone on the road below using your wifi. Since the mail / whateve originated from your router, you are responsible. Superb these guys I tell you.
~ Swapnil Muktware.com
2011/1/15 jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in
I wanted to what are the new rules of Govt. regarding such hot spots.
Open networks are banned. Terrorist mails and all that.
I doubt this. Can you provide a reference? Tata Telecom runs open Wifi networks at several airports in India, for example.
Binand
On Saturday 15 January 2011 20:40:02 Binand Sethumadhavan wrote:
2011/1/15 jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in
I wanted to what are the new rules of Govt. regarding such hot spots.
Open networks are banned. Terrorist mails and all that.
I doubt this. Can you provide a reference?
I read the notification (afaik DOT or Home). Besides it was published in the press. Dr. Nagarjuna had to pull down the mesh we had setup at HBCSE.
Tata Telecom runs open Wifi networks at several airports in India, for example.
I know. Besides other guys at Blore and Delhi.
Apart from the above, How a mail threat translates to a physical blast is beyond me. Our PHANTASTEEK ATS investigators are not even worth laughing at (re Malegaon). This, from an event already perpetrated. Never mind one yet to be executed.
As far as US goes, they are a security theatrics wet dream come true and match our guys shot for shot - on their own feet, when it isnt in their mouths.
The reality is that it takes very little, off the shelf, to engineer an attack. Consequently one would forgive the inability to stop an attack. But the lack of a modicum of physical forensic expertise is a matter of deep deep concern. This has to be addressed, not by fancy theatrics, but by tremendous hard work of chasing down EVERY petty crime, in order to shutdown the easily available potential infrastructure. Only from that will the police graduate to bigger and more sophisticated networks. BTW tackling the petty things puts the house in order - that is requirement number ZERO.
2011/1/15 jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in:
The reality is that it takes very little, off the shelf, to engineer an attack.
I'll have to disagree with that. It takes a lot to engineer a successful attack - any alert police force ought to be capable of stopping such preparations (witness the Metropolitan Police's success after they were caught off-guard on 7/7). It only takes intelligence and analysis - not snooping and violations.
Binand
On Saturday 15 January 2011 23:37:50 Binand Sethumadhavan wrote:
2011/1/15 jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in:
The reality is that it takes very little, off the shelf, to engineer an attack.
I'll have to disagree with that. It takes a lot to engineer a successful attack
It does not. One would have to check success v/s failure. Afaik its almost 100% success.
- any alert police force ought to be capable of
stopping such preparations (witness the Metropolitan Police's success after they were caught off-guard on 7/7).
Their Success has not been verified in a court of law as yet. (afaik, please do provide any inputs to the contrary)
It only takes intelligence and analysis - not snooping and violations.
Absolutely.
2011/1/16 jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in:
It does not. One would have to check success v/s failure. Afaik its almost 100% success.
That's because we hear only of the successful ones. The logistics involved in managing even the simplest of "bomb-in-crowded-place" is huge; with several people's involvement and several points of failure.
Binand
PS: I don't think this is necessarily the case in India - the alarming frequency at which we seem to have terrorism attacks suggests to me that it is relatively easy to hoodwink a selfish and corrupt society like ours.
On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Binand Sethumadhavan binand@gmail.com wrote:
I doubt this. Can you provide a reference? Tata Telecom runs open Wifi networks at several airports in India, for example.
They don't any more do they ? All of the WiFi providers at the airport(s) were supposed to send a code via SMS and, the end user was supposed to input the cell # before beginning to consume 'free' WiFi. Isn't that how it is ?
On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 7:07 PM, jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
Open networks are banned. Terrorist mails and all that. I am happy that nobody can bomb us via wifi. Thank you O Mighty Mandarins of the home ministry for such brilliance.
Open networks are fine and are allowed. However, "Internet Access" through open networks MUST be regulated.
For example:
1. Telephone number of each user must be recorded 2. All URL logs must be retained for 180 days
Usually this is done by "Multi factor authentication"
E.g. in most Airport lounges in Mumbai and Delhi, WiFI is open, when user connects:
1. User gets a local IP for device 2. ALL traffic is routed to a transparent proxy (anything other than http/https is disallowed) 3. Transparent proxy would present user with challenge, user has to enter cell phone number 4. Temp password is sent as SMS to user 5. User enters temp password and if it matches, transparent proxy allows http for that user from that point.
-Shamit
On Saturday 15 January 2011 23:10:20 Shamit Verma wrote:
On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 7:07 PM, jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
Open networks are banned. Terrorist mails and all that. I am happy that nobody can bomb us via wifi. Thank you O Mighty Mandarins of the home ministry for such brilliance.
Open networks are fine and are allowed. However, "Internet Access" through open networks MUST be regulated.
For example:
- Telephone number of each user must be recorded
- All URL logs must be retained for 180 days
Usually this is done by "Multi factor authentication"
E.g. in most Airport lounges in Mumbai and Delhi, WiFI is open, when user connects:
- User gets a local IP for device
- ALL traffic is routed to a transparent proxy (anything other
than http/https is disallowed)
Wrong
- Transparent proxy would present user with challenge, user has
to enter cell phone number
Wrong
- Temp password is sent as SMS to user
- User enters temp password and if it matches, transparent
proxy allows http for that user from that point.
I have browsed at Mumbai, Nagour, Delhi, And Blore. Recently. No such requirements at all.
-
Binand Sethumadhavan -
jtd -
Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) -
Richard Victor Correia -
Rony -
Sanjay B -
Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay -
Shamit Verma -
Swapnil