Have just learnt that under the recently announced licensing scheme for the cyber cafes in Mumbai, the Mumbai police under its list of requirement vide point no 14 insists on a copy of Microsoft Open License. This license fee is apparently prohibitive and apparently still unclear on the licensing term for public use, and, restrains cyber cafe operators from choosing any other alternative operating systems. I would like to hear from others who have more details. Specially someone in Mumbai. --FN -- FN M: 0091 9822122436 P: +91-832-240-9490 (after 1300IST please) http://fn.goa-india.org http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com What bloggers are saying about Goa: http://planet.goa-india.org/
Hi,
On 3/23/07, Frederick Noronha fred@bytesforall.org wrote:
Have just learnt that under the recently announced licensing scheme for the cyber cafes in Mumbai, the Mumbai police under its list of requirement vide point no 14 insists on a copy of Microsoft Open License. This license fee is apparently prohibitive and apparently still unclear on the licensing term for public use, and, restrains cyber cafe operators from choosing any other alternative operating systems. I would like to hear from others who have more details. Specially someone in Mumbai. --FN
Yes, Dr. Nagarjuna did tell me ( and Anurag ) about this development. Apparently the lead guy of the cybercafe association has asked for help and is willing to move to Linux. Basic idea, is to have a workshop for some number of cyber cafe owners to start off so that they can completely migrate there Windows boxes to some free operating system. After the workshop, we help a selected group or some such to migrate and keep a check on them if things are alright at thier cafes.
Unfortunately this topic never came at the lugmeet, my bad completely. But yes, its a good idea to implement. I am guessing there will be a meet at HBCSE on 31st, is it? We can discuss it then? Dr. Nagarjuna, can that guy from association drop in that day or some other day.
Cheers!
Pradeepto
Hi Pradeepto,
Quoting Pradeepto Bhattacharya pradeeptob@gmail.com:
Hi,
On 3/23/07, Frederick Noronha fred@bytesforall.org wrote:
Have just learnt that under the recently announced licensing scheme for the cyber cafes in Mumbai, the Mumbai police under its list of requirement vide point no 14 insists on a copy of Microsoft Open License. This license fee is apparently prohibitive and apparently still unclear on the licensing term for public use, and, restrains cyber cafe operators from choosing any other alternative operating systems. I would like to hear from others who have more details. Specially someone in Mumbai. --FN
Yes, Dr. Nagarjuna did tell me ( and Anurag ) aboutthis development. Apparently the lead guy of the cybercafe association has asked for help and is willing to move to Linux. Basic idea, is to have a workshop for some number of cyber cafe owners to start off so that they can completely migrate there Windows boxes to some free operating system. After the workshop, we help a selected group or some such to migrate and keep a check on them if things are alright at thier cafes.
The Cyber Cafe Associations President - Ashish Saboo is the guy you might be mentioning, He is a good friend of mine, so have passed on this message to him. I believe that he is going to hit on 31st March or whenever that meet would be.
Unfortunately this topic never came at the lugmeet, mybad completely. But yes, its a good idea to implement. I am guessing there will be a meet at HBCSE on 31st, is it? We can discuss it then? Dr. Nagarjuna, can that guy from association drop in that day or some other day.
So is this a LUG meet or just the meet to discuss about this topic ?
Thanks & Regards, Mitul Limbani, Founder & CEO, Enterux Solutions, The Enterprise Linux Company (TM), www.enterux.com
On Friday 23 Mar 2007 15:25:14 Pradeepto Bhattacharya wrote:
Basic idea, is to have a workshop for some number of cyber cafe owners to start off so that they can completely migrate there Windows boxes to some free operating system.
Not happening anytime soon. I had manage to convert a cyber cafe to Linux -- Only the server. The gaming cafes can't leave Windows and the client machines, the ones which the customers operate need to be loaded with M$ Office, MSN, Yahoo and some other messengers. Messengers which support webcams and voice chat and all that jazz. Don't tell me Gaim or Kopete can help. They can't. Kopete surely can't. It doesn't support one time logins. Maybe AMSN. No alternative for Yahoo available. Unless of course, all these things work perfectly in Wine. Unrelated, but KDE's kiosk mode can be useful.
Secondly, we needed an altogether different print server running Windows because it had a scanner not supported by Linux. The machine also needed to be loaded with CorelDraw. Back then there was no alternative because no Linux app would open CorelDraw files and CorelDraw itself wouldn't run on CrossOver or Wine. MANY customers need CorelDraw printouts. I don't know how the situation stands currently.
Quit trying to convert cyber cafes. Get home users to use Linux first and to do that, get students to learn Linux first. Yeah and uhhhh, the philosophy of freedom doesn't matter in this case. This is purely business. So, kindly show the cyber cafe owners why Linux suits their needs better than Windows. Currently, I don't think its possible. If it is, well, good thing. OK. Fine. I'll change that. Just make sure you do your homework, some of which I've talked about above, before you approach anyone about this issue.
Two other ways. One is to force them to use Linux by having a rule that says they must. You'll have a lot angry cyber cafe owners.
There is one way. Raid all the cyber cafes and make them buy the licenses for all the software that they run. Take strict action against those who don't. That'll be a way to force them to use Linux. That way you can anger customers who don't want to learn OpenOffice just to be able to write a letter. Yeah yeah, the differences are small but highly annoying to someone who doesn't have the time to look around a bit. So, uhhh.. well, your choice. Hopefully you'll come up with better choices than those I've mentioned.
Btw, I think I can get that cyber cafe owner friend of mine to talk to you guys. Maybe he'll be able to help you get some cyber cafe people to use Linux.
Mind you, all this while, I've ignored the effort needed to learn Linux and to replace the existing Windows installations with Linux.
Good luck.
On 3/23/07, Mrugesh Karnik mrugeshkarnik@gmail.com wrote:
Maybe AMSN. No alternative for Yahoo available. Unless of course, all
these
things work perfectly in Wine.
http://messenger.yahoo.com/unix.php
Quit trying to convert cyber cafes. Get home users to use Linux first and
to
do that, get students to learn Linux first.
I think multiple things tried out in parallel will have a greater impact than those carried out in isolation.So, cyber cafes have to be targeted . However , I agree with you that making students learn Linux is important. I would like to give my own example. I had very little exposure to computers before I joined Fr. CRCE (Agnel) , Bandra . In our college , we were made to use only Linux ( and Mac and Solaris to some extent but no windows ) . As result , I had to install and start using Linux at my home and got used to it. To do my BE project I went to KReSIT , IITB --- here also I found that only Linux is used . ( I also seen one slogan on one if the guy's t-shirt saying " I am the lone supporter of M$ in this camus " ). As a result , when I stepped into my company TCS I was looking out for Linux . Fortunately , my project was on AIX and I got to work under some UNIX gurus and we were successful in convincing people that Linux was suitable and sart using Linux and related technologies. I firmly believe that by switching to Linux companies can save lot of money and increase their costs .
Regards, Sourabh
On 3/23/07, saurabh daptardar saurabh.daptardar@gmail.com wrote:
It's very very old and no webcam and voice chat support.
The problem is that there's many messengers out there that do one a bit of this and a bit of that but not all at once. Ayttm has webcam support, for example, but no voice chat. Gyach (dunno if it's alive) has most of the yahoo client features but it was highly unstable when I had tried it. Gaim is good if you want a bit of everything (much like ayttm).
On Friday 23 Mar 2007 23:37:05 saurabh daptardar wrote:
I think multiple things tried out in parallel will have a greater impact than those carried out in isolation.
As it is said in Marathi..
``एक ना धड, भाराभर चिंध्या!''
I wonder if that's applicable here.
On 3/25/07, vivek khurana mailing.vivek@gmail.com wrote:
that by switching to Linux companies can save lot of money and increase their costs .
save money and increase cost ? Please explain...
sorry ...mistake ... save money and increase profits
On 23-Mar-07, at 10:21 PM, Mrugesh Karnik wrote:
that they can completely migrate there Windows boxes to some free operating system.
Not happening anytime soon. I had manage to convert a cyber cafe to Linux -- Only the server.
correct - stick to converting the server. Nothing else will work. And if the cybercafes have to pay M$ license fees, prices will go up - thats all. I have run a cybercafe and practical experiences shows that they *have* to provide M$ stuff because that is what the customers need. Anything else will boomerang on us. Even if there is a meeting with the cybercafe people please dont promise them to completely replace doze - talk only about the server and talk only about stability and reliability for that.
On 3/24/07, Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
correct - stick to converting the server. Nothing else will work.
Yeah. They can start by using Squid for their proxy server. Saves licensing costs for atleast one machine. Not difficult to install and maintain either. Besides, uptime and speed is so crucial in a cyber cafe environment that using MS Proxy is as reliable as...err...Sachin Tendulkar in a high pressure situation.
I don't see the client machines migrating any time soon.
Regards, NMK.
1) On 3/24/07, Nadeem M. Khan nadeem.m.khan@gmail.com wrote:
I don't see the client machines migrating any time soon.
They would never .... unless efforts are made to start the process.
2) Mrugesh Karnik mrugeshkarnik@gmail.com wrote:
The machine also needed to be loaded with CorelDraw. Back then there was no alternative because no
Linux
app would open CorelDraw files and CorelDraw itself wouldn't run on
CrossOver
or Wine. MANY customers need CorelDraw printouts. I don't know how the situation stands currently.
A google search gives me these results:
http://www.in.redhat.com/AppComparisonList.php3 http://www.shopping.com/xPF-Corel_CorelDraw_9_0_Graphics_Suite_Upgrade http://www.unixreview.com/documents/s=1237/urm0103k/ http://www.osalt.com/corel-draw
See if they can help , I do not have much idea about corel draw.
3)
http://www.itdlogistics.com.au/products.aspx
Have a look at prices of Corel software. I wonder if there is a cyber cafe in India who has really paid these amounts . But , it is being used .
Regards, Sourabh
On 24-Mar-07, at 1:58 PM, saurabh daptardar wrote:
or Wine. MANY customers need CorelDraw printouts. I don't know how the situation stands currently.
A google search gives me these results:
it is not very helpful to do a google search - we all know how to do that - also there has been extensive discussion on this in this list itself and currently there is no viable foss alternative to coreldraw, quark express, pagemaker ... the gimp and blender are cutting edge professional tools, but with steep learning curves which you cant expect cybercafe users to climb. And dont forget people who need VB and stuff like that for school/college projects - or do you want them to do it in gambas?
--- Mrugesh Karnik wrote:
MANY customers need CorelDraw printouts.
Typically, those CorelDraw files that require printout, should be converted to a so-called "CCV" format (I have named it). That is all text within the document should be converted to curves and this document should be then converted/exported to a pdf file. By doing this they avoid the problem of missing fonts being replaced by standard or default fonts. PDF readers are available as FOSS KGhostview (PS/PDF viewer). They are also prevented from further direct editing (without hacks)
So, kindly show the cyber cafe owners why Linux suits their needs better than Windows.
There are a few "current" reasons. Rid of nasty viruses. A better browser (Mozilla Firefox). Better stability. Skype is available for Linux distros too, and windows users should be encouraged too. Voice chat over skype is great. One can also know the statistics of voice communication. Ah, that doesn't matter, but as far as I know, it is better than Y! Msgr's voice chat. Ekiga is available on Ubuntu, but in development stage for Windows.
-- FSF of India Associate Fellow http://www.gnu.org.in http://www.somaiya.edu/sksasc
__________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/
From: Roshan Sent: 03/24/07 17:50
--- Mrugesh Karnik wrote:
MANY customers need CorelDraw printouts.
Typically, those CorelDraw files that require printout, should be converted to a so-called "CCV" format (I have named it). That is all text within the document should be converted to curves and this document should be then converted/exported to a pdf file. By doing this they avoid the problem of missing fonts being replaced by standard or default fonts. PDF readers are available as FOSS KGhostview (PS/PDF viewer). They are also prevented from further direct editing (without hacks)
We can suggest them to use linux on some desktops and main server. Rest of them with M$ stuff and hey can charge more for using these systems.
IE4linux has improved a lot and most of the IE only websites will work on ie4linux.
Later depends on the success rate they can adjust the ratio between Linux and m$.
regards benoy
On 25-Mar-07, at 2:56 PM, Benoy George wrote:
IE4linux has improved a lot and most of the IE only websites will work on ie4linux.
but IE4linux is illegal. It requires to download IE, and the IE web download page clearly says that it is a breach of license to run IE on an operating system not mentioned in the list. And linux is not mentioned there.
I don't know if this helps in the discussion -
It is helpful to target the wine layer in the mid-term for moving the most commonly used applications to linux.
Wine is closer to the 1.0 release :D and supports a host of default windows libs required for different applications.
So here's a proposed approach to move the cybercafe owners to Linux
1. Move their servers first. 2. Check which applications need to be moved on priority to Linux. 3. Help wine with bug-reports on getting the said application on wine. They work on features purely on _demand._ 4. Move small number of PCs as game pcs .. non-gaming pcs 5. Check which games are required to run on the machines. 6. Compare with Cedega ( wine commercial ) if it supported. 7. Buy Cedega if most of the games are supported. Its probably 2k or 3k for full support at max. 8. Check with Crossover office if they are willing to make yahoo messenger, msn messenger to work under linux. More the number of ppl who request for a 9. If yes buy Crossover office ( 40 $ ) and then get your favorite app to work in wine. The wine developers can get the apps working really really fast if you pay them to.
I seriously feel Wine is a really good intermediate solution to the problem of moving client desktops to Linux.
On the additional bonus side most apps / games run faster under Linux on wine :D
regards, C
On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:07:26 +0530, "Chetan S" cshring@gmail.com wrote:
So here's a proposed approach to move the cybercafe owners to Linux
- Move their servers first.
right
- Check which applications need to be moved on priority to Linux.
...
Really nice line of thought - I mean systematic and practcal approach. But you have missed one major point .. Wine will also execute viruses and other alwares just fine.. :-(
Sorry for throwing a stone at your idea.. but I too have gone over the idea when I was migrating my home pc and got stuck as all the viruses also started affecting my machine.. I had folder.htt and desktop.ini in my home folder with that stupid vbscript virus!!
On the additional bonus side most apps / games run faster under Linux on wine :D
Yeah.. I remember when the Redhat's Celestia used to bork up every now and then and Windoze version of Celestia (same version) used to be smoot (through Wine)
Quake3 demo was a pain on Windows.. took more than a min to load and the graphics was jerky. and Linux version used to come up in 8 secs and was as smooth as melting butter.
- Check which applications need to be moved on priority to Linux.
Really nice line of thought - I mean systematic and practcal approach. But you have missed one major point .. Wine will also execute viruses and other alwares just fine.. :-(
True. However thats where Linux shines. Even if Wine runs in admin mode, it runs within normal user domain of Linux.
Sorry for throwing a stone at your idea.. but I too have gone over the idea when I was migrating my home pc and got stuck as all the viruses also started affecting my machine.. I had folder.htt and desktop.ini in my home folder with that stupid vbscript virus!!
More the number of stones better the chance of refining the approach.
In virus / malware case the main Linux machine remains safe since wine is run in user mode. This can later be taken a step ahead by "cleaning" the wine enviro when a user quits the system. Essentially a kiosk mode.
So here is possible steps for a cafe login : 1. Create a temp home dir for the cafe user when he/she logs in with default template applications ( a la' /etc/skel ) 2. Let the user install / play / whatever and bork the home as much he/she wishes. 3. When he / she logs out clean the temp home dir. 4. Profit ?
If this needs to go even further let the linux image run under qemu, essentially sandboxing the environment. :D But by this point am more on the visions than implementations !
Back to virii, there are quite a few instances of viruses which detect and do not run under wine :)
regards, C
On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:20:14 +0530, "Chetan S" cshring@gmail.com wrote:
- Check which applications need to be moved on priority to Linux.
Really nice line of thought - I mean systematic and practcal approach. But you have missed one major point .. Wine will also execute viruses and other alwares just fine.. :-(
True. However thats where Linux shines. Even if Wine runs in admin mode, it runs within normal user domain of Linux.
What about floppy disks/thumb drives ?
More the number of stones better the chance of refining the approach.
yep
In virus / malware case the main Linux machine remains safe since wine is run in user mode. This can later be taken a step ahead by "cleaning" the wine enviro when a user quits the system. Essentially a kiosk mode.
easy ?
So here is possible steps for a cafe login :
- Create a temp home dir for the cafe user when he/she logs in with
default template applications ( a la' /etc/skel ) 2. Let the user install / play / whatever and bork the home as much he/she wishes. 3. When he / she logs out clean the temp home dir. 4. Profit ?
you mean everytime he logs in ? wont that be a lil slow ? what about registered users ? they will want permanant home dirs..
If this needs to go even further let the linux image run under qemu,
not feasible.
essentially sandboxing the environment. :D But by this point am more on the visions than implementations !
Back to virii, there are quite a few instances of viruses which detect and do not run under wine :)
But we dont chose the virii. =====
A better solution to all this is to build a good Distro with server and client variations: There is a IE theme for Firefox. And KDE can have a mock-XP theme. A cyber cafe manager can run instead of KDM/GDM .. integrated into the authentication and session manager LDAP service of the server. The server can also have an LDAP integrated Kiosk manager.
The first kiosk can have a very simple startup page - instead of the normal desktop - it should have regular tasks that a cyber cafe user will do .. have buttons like "Firefox" .. I will put some mock-screens up and post the url.
On 3/26/07, Laxminarayan G Kamath A laxminarayan@deeproot.co.in wrote:
Really nice line of thought - I mean systematic and practcal approach. But you have missed one major point .. Wine will also execute viruses and other alwares just fine.. :-(
True. However thats where Linux shines. Even if Wine runs in admin mode, it runs within normal user domain of Linux.
What about floppy disks/thumb drives ?
Again - I am trying to understand what is that seems a problem here. Am not really familiar to the situation of virii under wine on linux.
In virus / malware case the main Linux machine remains safe since wine is run in user mode. This can later be taken a step ahead by "cleaning" the wine enviro when a user quits the system. Essentially a kiosk mode.
easy ?
sure.
So here is possible steps for a cafe login :
- Create a temp home dir for the cafe user when he/she logs in with
default template applications ( a la' /etc/skel ) 2. Let the user install / play / whatever and bork the home as much he/she wishes. 3. When he / she logs out clean the temp home dir. 4. Profit ?
you mean everytime he logs in ? wont that be a lil slow ?
it won't be if you minimize the settings to be copied / created.
what about registered users ? they will want permanant home dirs..
sure. the kiosk manager can incorporate this quirk !
If this needs to go even further let the linux image run under qemu,
not feasible.
told ya I was dreaming !
Back to virii, there are quite a few instances of viruses which detect and do not run under wine :)
But we dont chose the virii.
hehehe :)
A better solution to all this is to build a good Distro with server and client variations: There is a IE theme for Firefox. And KDE can have a mock-XP theme. A cyber cafe manager can run instead of KDM/GDM .. integrated into the authentication and session manager LDAP service of the server. The server can also have an LDAP integrated Kiosk manager.
It is easy to get into trap of creating new distros. Oft forgotten point is maintainence. Appropriate way is creating a "layer" for ubuntu etc which modifies the default installation to a kiosk mode. Imho sticking to the unix way of things of doing 1 small thing properly is the right way. Modifying something like vino (profile manager) under gnome is the better way.
And choice of desktop is not a question here because we are trying to switch in the first step :)
The first kiosk can have a very simple startup page - instead of the normal desktop - it should have regular tasks that a cyber cafe user will do .. have buttons like "Firefox" .. I will put some mock-screens up and post the url.
--
Awesome. Any start is a great start unless you fork it :)
regards, C
Chetan S wrote:
Again - I am trying to understand what is that seems a problem here. Am not really familiar to the situation of virii under wine on linux.
Wine requires you to use propriety material from Microsoft and that means actually buying a legal copy for each machine, so it beats the purpose of migrating to Linux.
On Monday 26 March 2007 15:16:55 Laxminarayan G Kamath A wrote:
A better solution to all this is to build a good Distro with server and client variations: There is a IE theme for Firefox. And KDE can have a mock-XP theme. A cyber cafe manager can run instead of KDM/GDM .. integrated into the authentication and session manager LDAP service of the server. The server can also have an LDAP integrated Kiosk manager.
The first kiosk can have a very simple startup page - instead of the normal desktop - it should have regular tasks that a cyber cafe user will do .. have buttons like "Firefox" .. I will put some mock-screens up and post the url.
Here is one small example: In Feb 2007, M$ with the help of local police started raiding on different places in West Bengal for pirated windows. As they came to Durgapur (Dist Burdwan), the local cybercafe owners were too tensed , some of them closed their shops until those people went back. But some others chose GNU/Linux right away. Our LUG members installed GNU/Linux in few of the cafes , where in some they installed themselves. And they are happy with it, they don't want to go back to windows any more.
That means it can be done in a larger scale.
Kushal
On 3/27/07, Kushal Das kushaldas@gmail.com wrote:
some others chose GNU/Linux right away. Our LUG members installed GNU/Linux in few of the cafes , where in some they installed themselves. And they are happy with it, they don't want to go back to windows any more.
Cool, you could give inputs of how the various problems mentioned above (gaming, chat, voice, etc) were tackled.
On Tuesday 27 March 2007 10:52, Kushal Das wrote:
Here is one small example: In Feb 2007, M$ with the help of local police started raiding on different places in West Bengal for pirated windows. As they came to Durgapur (Dist Burdwan), the local cybercafe owners were too tensed , some of them closed their shops until those people went back. But some others chose GNU/Linux right away. Our LUG members installed GNU/Linux in few of the cafes , where in some they installed themselves. And they are happy with it, they don't want to go back to windows any more.
I had a related observation. The small cybercafe owner (typically 3 to 4 pcs) is atleast apologetic about using pirated software. His big city counterpart does not care. He has weighed his risk and finds the returns a lot better using pirated stuff. One of them told me that users are always using the lates pirated apps. Hence cyberbhai would have his capital costs very high year on year. Quote cyberhai "Mian Ch**** thodi hoon tail light badal ne ke liye car ke kimat doon"
On 27-Mar-07, at 10:52 AM, Kushal Das wrote:
some others chose GNU/Linux right away. Our LUG members installed GNU/Linux in few of the cafes , where in some they installed themselves. And they are happy with it, they don't want to go back to windows any more.
cool - can you give a case study on how they are handling the various demands of customers
On Tuesday 27 March 2007 12:45:49 Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On 27-Mar-07, at 10:52 AM, Kushal Das wrote:
some others chose GNU/Linux right away. Our LUG members installed GNU/Linux in few of the cafes , where in some they installed themselves. And they are happy with it, they don't want to go back to windows any more.
cool - can you give a case study on how they are handling the various demands of customers
Will post the details
Kushal
On Tuesday 27 March 2007 12:45:49 Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On 27-Mar-07, at 10:52 AM, Kushal Das wrote:
some others chose GNU/Linux right away. Our LUG members installed GNU/Linux in few of the cafes , where in some they installed themselves. And they are happy with it, they don't want to go back to windows any more.
cool - can you give a case study on how they are handling the various demands of customers
There cafes are with 10-15 computers. OS:- Fedora Core 6 & Ubuntu 5.10 Main Work: Browsing, chatting
Apps Used: For Browsing: Firefox Chatting: Gaim
Still in these cafes are not providing much with Webcam or voice chat , and now they are looking applications for that. And other thing they are missing is the games :(
Bad News: Some of the cafes moved to Cable DSl provided by WEBEL, and their connector program(crclient) is not working in these versions of Linux. so, we lost few of the cafes. Anyone knows how to use that ?
Cafes only with DSl connection from BSNL are in good position(may be 2-3).
Kushal
It is helpful to target the wine layer in the mid-term for moving the most commonly used applications to linux.
There's really no such thing as mid-term. More often than not the mid-term solution, if acceptable (not necessarily the best), simply sticks. And wine+proprietary apps is not a very good idea. If we promote a free solution from our end as a LUG (or as FSF for that matter), it should ideally be free (mukt).
- Move their servers first.
- Check which applications need to be moved on priority to Linux.
Web browser, messengers (yahoo and hotmail), PDF reader, office apps. Everything else (photoshop, corel, etc.) are novelty and not too many cyber cafes have it.
- Help wine with bug-reports on getting the said application on wine.
They work on features purely on _demand._
Every FOSS app works that way.
- Move small number of PCs as game pcs .. non-gaming pcs
It's generally difficult for smaller cafes to dedicate some PCs exclusively to gaming. Here we can make use of XWine (Disclaimer: I don't know how well it works with which games)
- Check with Crossover office if they are willing to make yahoo
messenger, msn messenger to work under linux. More the number of ppl who request for a
What do messengers by crossover office provide that are superior to gaim/kopete/ayttm/put_your_fav_foss_messenger_here? (It's a genuine question)
I seriously feel Wine is a really good intermediate solution to the problem of moving client desktops to Linux.
I really would prefer suggesting a longer term solution that would give users a truly great experience of FOSS software.
On the additional bonus side most apps / games run faster under Linux on wine :D
But surely not as fast as Linux apps under Linux :)
On Tuesday 27 Mar 2007 00:05:13 Siddhesh Poyarekar wrote:
- Check which applications need to be moved on priority to Linux.
Web browser, messengers (yahoo and hotmail), PDF reader, office apps. Everything else (photoshop, corel, etc.) are novelty and not too many cyber cafes have it.
True I think. But they're usually present if the cafe has a printer. But also, they're present on just the print server.. usually.
- Check with Crossover office if they are willing to make yahoo
messenger, msn messenger to work under linux. More the number of ppl who request for a
What do messengers by crossover office provide that are superior to gaim/kopete/ayttm/put_your_fav_foss_messenger_here? (It's a genuine question)
Voice chat, webcam and those useless winks etc. Even more of a problem is the familiar interface. People need those and the Linux messengers don't have them. I think AMSN is a good replacement for MSN messenger. Except voice it supports nearly all the major features properly. Even Kmess is a good alternative. The problem is with Yahoo. There's no good a replacement. Kopete supports Webcam and all, but creating temporary user accounts in Kopete is a pain because it works on Unix design philosophy, assuming that every user will login using a different system account rather than all of them logging in with one single accounts and creating different temporary accounts.
I seriously feel Wine is a really good intermediate solution to the problem of moving client desktops to Linux.
I really would prefer suggesting a longer term solution that would give users a truly great experience of FOSS software.
I think rather using wine, develop proper alternatives and deploy them. Keep in mind the fact that if you do manage to get cyber cafes to use Linux, there's a good chance that you'll gain a few home users as well. Developing proper FOSS alternatives for the common software a home user needs is the best way.
On 3/27/07, Mrugesh Karnik mrugeshkarnik@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday 27 Mar 2007 00:05:13 Siddhesh Poyarekar wrote:
- Check with Crossover office if they are willing to make yahoo
messenger, msn messenger to work under linux. More the number of ppl who request for a
What do messengers by crossover office provide that are superior to gaim/kopete/ayttm/put_your_fav_foss_messenger_here? (It's a genuine question)
Voice chat, webcam and those useless winks etc. Even more of a problem is the familiar interface. People need those and the Linux messengers don't have them. I think AMSN is a good replacement for MSN messenger. Except voice it supports nearly all the major features properly. Even Kmess is a good alternative. The problem is with Yahoo. There's no good a replacement. Kopete supports Webcam and all, but creating temporary user accounts in Kopete is a pain because it works on Unix design philosophy, assuming that every user will login using a different system account rather than all of them logging in with one single accounts and creating different temporary accounts.
I seriously feel Wine is a really good intermediate solution to the problem of moving client desktops to Linux.
I really would prefer suggesting a longer term solution that would give users a truly great experience of FOSS software.
I think rather using wine, develop proper alternatives and deploy them. Keep in mind the fact that if you do manage to get cyber cafes to use Linux, there's a good chance that you'll gain a few home users as well. Developing proper FOSS alternatives for the common software a home user needs is the best way.
Mid-term was with reference to the dates for the cafes. Long term can be anywhere between next week to heat death of earth.
I was trying to be more practical here. More so with a workable solution within a 2-3 month time frame.
FOSS alternatives to what ? Yahoo client ? You'll play a catch up with them for the rest of your life. They change a bit / encryption scheme and your clients will barf on you. MSN ? Same case. It was only recently that OSS managed to interpret the obscure features of the Y! protocol. Forget voice and webcam. Gyach came close. however getting your webcam to work under Linux is a prayer at best.
Unless you make a OSS voice / chat solution popular and bundle it on most desktops you are fighting a long term eternal battle.
Coming back to the point of VOIP ( which is the one that matters most ) unless the OSS solution does not allow user to make a call from PC to Phone or use webcam for a decent payment ( for the infrastructure ) it is esentially useless to the aam janta.
Talk of webcams and video editing and things like that and most seasoned Linux professionals get the creeps.
Fast , Free and works for my hardware is the only criteria for the end-users to use it.
While I endorse OSS on every front, being anal to workarounds does not work anywhere beyond techies domain.
@Rony - And to the question of using wine here's from the wine faq -
3.8. Do I need to have a DOS partition on my system to use Wine?
You do not need a licensed and installed copy of DOS or MS Windows to install, configure or run Wine. However, Wine has to be able to 'see' an MS Windows binary (i.e. application) if it is to run it.
regards, C
RTFM is an oft used and least applied word in FOSS.
On 3/27/07, Chetan S cshring@gmail.com wrote:
FOSS alternatives to what ? Yahoo client ? You'll play a catch up with them for the rest of your life. They change a bit / encryption scheme and your clients will barf on you.
Well yahoo doesn't change its protocol everyday. Even if it does, it doesn't do it in a manner that older clients will barf on your because they have to take care of users with older clients. I'm using ayttm with the older version of libyahoo2. While the protocol is different and some (very few actually) features are misplaced, it certainly doesn't barf. And mind you that before a couple of months, ayttm wasn't updated for over 2-3 years. Hence, what you're saying is simply FUD.
It was only recently that OSS managed to interpret the obscure features of the Y! protocol. Forget voice and webcam. Gyach came close. however getting your webcam to work under Linux is a prayer at best.
The reason for not coming close to yahoo features is not because they're obscure but because not all of the feature set fits into the general framework of their messengers. Few messengers out there are protocol exclusive and hence they try to keep a feature set that is common to all their protocols.
Coming back to the point of VOIP ( which is the one that matters most ) unless the OSS solution does not allow user to make a call from PC to Phone or use webcam for a decent payment ( for the infrastructure ) it is esentially useless to the aam janta.
I don't understand why it matters most. Out of 100 visitors to a cyber cafe not more than 10-15 would want to do voice chat.
Talk of webcams and video editing and things like that and most seasoned Linux professionals get the creeps.
Setting up webcams is the work of an admin and not the cafe user. That too, I assume, is not very difficult as I haven't too many gripes about non-working webcams. And why do seasoned Linux professionals get creeps when you talk of video editing?
Fast , Free and works for my hardware is the only criteria for the end-users to use it.
We're talking about cafes and not end users, right?
While I endorse OSS on every front, being anal to workarounds does not work anywhere beyond techies domain.
Opposing wine as a solution is not being anal; I'm opposing the 'wash your hands off it quickly with wine' solution.
Most needs are fulfilled by FOSS, they only need minor tweaking here and there. Familiarity here should not be an issue since if all/most cyber cafes are going to implement this solution then there is not real competitor. If licensing is mandatory then the windows based cafes will become expensive, making the FOSS based cafes more desirable.
@Rony - And to the question of using wine here's from the wine faq -
3.8. Do I need to have a DOS partition on my system to use Wine?
You do not need a licensed and installed copy of DOS or MS Windows to install, configure or run Wine. However, Wine has to be able to 'see' an MS Windows binary (i.e. application) if it is to run it.
It still needs the proprietary apps to run them; and in some cases it is illegal to run them from wine (IE).
On 3/27/07, Siddhesh Poyarekar siddhesh.poyarekar@gmail.com wrote:
On 3/27/07, Chetan S cshring@gmail.com wrote:
FOSS alternatives to what ? Yahoo client ? You'll play a catch up with them for the rest of your life. They change a bit / encryption scheme and your clients will barf on you.
Well yahoo doesn't change its protocol everyday. Even if it does, it doesn't do it in a manner that older clients will barf on your because they have to take care of users with older clients. I'm using ayttm with the older version of libyahoo2. While the protocol is different and some (very few actually) features are misplaced, it certainly doesn't barf. And mind you that before a couple of months, ayttm wasn't updated for over 2-3 years. Hence, what you're saying is simply FUD.
:D i wish. Ayttm looks butt ugly until the gtk2 port will be out. And again from libyahoo2 site - libyahoo2 does not yet have support for Voice messages, nor for IMvironments.
Useless as they are, they are used by quite a few people.
From Gaim ( most popular alternative ? ) -
While in Web Messenger mode, several things work differently or not at all. Adding, moving, and removing buddies doesn't work, and the only available statuses are "Available" and "Invisible". In addition, the Yahoo! server seems to ignore all Yahoo! Chat related packets. For this reason, we use the YCHT protocol to join Yahoo! Chat rooms while connected using the Web Messenger method.
Something or the other will always not be supported.
Coming back to the point of VOIP ( which is the one that matters most ) unless the OSS solution does not allow user to make a call from PC to Phone or use webcam for a decent payment ( for the infrastructure ) it is esentially useless to the aam janta.
I don't understand why it matters most. Out of 100 visitors to a cyber cafe not more than 10-15 would want to do voice chat.
Again. 10-15 would be a hit. I am referring to no-loss scenario. Why should the cyber cafe owners face a loss for upholding Free ideology ? Also why should he get a new webcam to get it to work with linux ?
Simply stated - Linux ke liye ye naya kharido, woh naya kharido ... why ?
Talk of webcams and video editing and things like that and most seasoned Linux professionals get the creeps.
Setting up webcams is the work of an admin and not the cafe user. That too, I assume, is not very difficult as I haven't too many gripes about non-working webcams. And why do seasoned Linux professionals get creeps when you talk of video editing?
I am not making any off the cuff assumptions here. Video capture is mostly a pain because the drivers are missing. And the video composition chain is even more missing. Cinerrela and kino exist but again one problem - integration with video cam ?
Fast , Free and works for my hardware is the only criteria for the end-users to use it.
We're talking about cafes and not end users, right?
sigh. who visits cafes ?
While I endorse OSS on every front, being anal to workarounds does not work anywhere beyond techies domain.
Opposing wine as a solution is not being anal; I'm opposing the 'wash your hands off it quickly with wine' solution.
More like keep your hands clean of windows till you work on the "minor" tweaks.
Most needs are fulfilled by FOSS, they only need minor tweaking here and there. Familiarity here should not be an issue since if all/most cyber cafes are going to implement this solution then there is not real competitor. If licensing is mandatory then the windows based cafes will become expensive, making the FOSS based cafes more desirable.
Till the "minor" is not quantified and it does not serve a solution for a definite time frame.
And games are again a question, no ?
@Rony - And to the question of using wine here's from the wine faq -
3.8. Do I need to have a DOS partition on my system to use Wine?
You do not need a licensed and installed copy of DOS or MS Windows to install, configure or run Wine. However, Wine has to be able to 'see' an MS Windows binary (i.e. application) if it is to run it.
It still needs the proprietary apps to run them; and in some cases it is illegal to run them from wine (IE).
Why you would need to run IE under wine ? Most apps ( non-microsoft ) do not have clause to run only from Windows.
And all the while I am only proposing to run the applications which have an immediate need and do not have complete alternatives covering most used and major features.
regards, C
On 3/27/07, Chetan S cshring@gmail.com wrote:
On 3/27/07, Siddhesh Poyarekar siddhesh.poyarekar@gmail.com wrote:
Well yahoo doesn't change its protocol everyday. Even if it does, it doesn't do it in a manner that older clients will barf on your because they have to take care of users with older clients. I'm using ayttm with the older version of libyahoo2. While the protocol is different and some (very few actually) features are misplaced, it certainly doesn't barf. And mind you that before a couple of months, ayttm wasn't updated for over 2-3 years. Hence, what you're saying is simply FUD.
:D i wish. Ayttm looks butt ugly until the gtk2 port will be out. And again from libyahoo2 site - libyahoo2 does not yet have support for Voice messages, nor for IMvironments.
And in what way does not having imvironments or voice messaging make your client barf? Read my mail carefully. I did mention lack of certain features, many because of the need to maintain uniformity accross protocols.
Again. 10-15 would be a hit. I am referring to no-loss scenario. Why should the cyber cafe owners face a loss for upholding Free ideology ? Also why should he get a new webcam to get it to work with linux ?
Simply stated - Linux ke liye ye naya kharido, woh naya kharido ... why ?
You didn't substantiate that with an example of a webcam that doesn't work with Linux. And let me reiterate, users do not install webcams, they only use them. Cafe owners/admins install webcams.
Fast , Free and works for my hardware is the only criteria for the end-users to use it.
We're talking about cafes and not end users, right?
sigh. who visits cafes ?
Read the subject line and you'll know what this topic is about.
Till the "minor" is not quantified and it does not serve a solution for a definite time frame.
Quantify and then decide whether or not it is feasible.
And games are again a question, no ?
Yes, agreed. And one can charge more for games and buy a windows license for it.
Why you would need to run IE under wine ? Most apps ( non-microsoft ) do not have clause to run only from Windows.
I'm not aware but is there a license problem with the runtime libraries like there is with IE? Also, IE is necessary for some poorly written but necessary websites (some company employee portals for example).
On Sunday 25 Mar 2007 14:56:42 Benoy George wrote:
We can suggest them to use linux on some desktops and main server. Rest of them with M$ stuff and hey can charge more for using these systems.
Discrimination is not allowed even in the GPL. This is getting down to the level of being `cheap'.
On 3/23/07, Pradeepto Bhattacharya pradeeptob@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, Dr. Nagarjuna did tell me ( and Anurag ) about this development. Apparently the lead guy of the cybercafe association has asked for help and is willing to move to Linux. Basic idea, is to have a workshop for some number of cyber cafe owners to start off so that they can completely migrate there Windows boxes to some free operating system. After the workshop, we help a selected group or some such to migrate and keep a check on them if things are alright at thier cafes.
Thats a great news !! I want to make one suggestion here . The cafe owners would n't be much interested in terms like FOSS and free software , which would be difficult for them to digest. It would be beneficial to concentrate on cost ( free as in inexpensive or phukat in Marathi :) ) . So , if any of the members on the list are aware of the cost of the pricing ( licensing and others if any ) , it can be shown how much money they can saved by the cafe owners. I am sure that in the money saved they will be able to buy atleast one more computer.
Needless to say , Linux equivalents of windows software used by cafes is a prerequisite .
Regards, Sourabh
the Mumbai police under its list of requirement vide point no 14 insists on a copy of Microsoft Open License.
Hey, do you have a copy of this circular/ordinance/notice? Can you post it here?
Saurabh
Ok buddies, have been following this thread for sometime and too much have been discussed on both the sides of the coin. Enough of hitting one another, though some interesting alternatives got suggested. But, will these solutions offered match to reality ? The ideal reply to the problem is, adopt a couple of browsing centers whose owner are willing to make a try with FOSS solutions and make a pilot attempt with them
Try implementing some of the solutions offered all along this thread, but make sure that the owner of the browsing center doesn't get a blow over his face. If things seem to be getting bad, change back to old solutions and rethink. Else, if people seem to be getting used to FOSS solutions, then get a feedback from them on what kinda improvements they are looking for and try to find solutions. Ask the browsing center owner to interact with his routine clients who may mind helping him to try things out, like he can ask some of them to sit on GNU/Linux systems, use FOSS tools and give a feedback on their experience. Based on such feedbacks we can decide further.
There is no use in hitting a 100 post long thread but still not putting something into trial and checking out whether it works or not. Just words doesn't change things, they need to be accompanied with actions.
On 3/27/07, Parthan parth.technofreak@gmail.com wrote:
There is no use in hitting a 100 post long thread but still not putting something into trial and checking out whether it works or not. Just words doesn't change things, they need to be accompanied with actions.
Bingo.
regards, C
Sometime on Monday 26 March 2007 18:34, Saurabh Nanda said:
the Mumbai police under its list of requirement vide point no 14 insists on a copy of Microsoft Open License.
Hey, do you have a copy of this circular/ordinance/notice? Can you post it here?
http://mm.gnu.org.in/pipermail/fsf-friends/2007-March/004714.html
Anurag
On 27-Mar-07, at 6:30 PM, Anurag wrote:
Hey, do you have a copy of this circular/ordinance/notice? Can you post it here?
http://mm.gnu.org.in/pipermail/fsf-friends/2007-March/004714.html
wording looks like more out of ignorance than malice. Of course the cops will enforce it strictly. The correct wording should be 'MS open license if applicable'. Or, more generally, 'proof that software used is legal'. This reminds me of visa applications in India where there is a clause asking for 'local guardian certificate'. This is meant for students, but in many places even adult businessmen are being asked to produce one.
http://mm.gnu.org.in/pipermail/fsf-friends/2007-March/004714.html
Is the checklist given there a replacement for the checklist given at http://www.cybercellmumbai.com/files/Notification%20of%20Cyber%20Cafe.pdf page number 16?
I'm surprised that the large number of grammatical errors and typos throughout the PDF linked above. It's supposed to be an official document from the Cyber Cell, Mumbai.
Has anyone written to the Cyber Cell/Mumbai police to clarify/change the language of the much-debated point number 14?
Saurabh.
On 28-Mar-07, at 11:31 AM, Saurabh Nanda wrote:
Has anyone written to the Cyber Cell/Mumbai police to clarify/change the language of the much-debated point number 14?
i would suggest opening a wiki page for drafting a fresh point no 14 which could read like this:
1. If the cybercafe has Microsoft Operating system and microsoft software - production of microsoft open license 2. If it has other software - production of the license to use that software 3. If it is using free software, no license need be produced.
- If the cybercafe has Microsoft Operating system and microsoft
software - production of microsoft open license 2. If it has other software - production of the license to use that software 3. If it is using free software, no license need be produced.
I don't think you need to drill down with such a switch-case clause. Simple stating that "a copy of the license agreemenent is required" would do. For free software people can simply take a printout of the GPL/MPL/APL or whatever. (How many different open source licenses will be required to cover a standard distro -- Ubuntu or FC, say?)
Saurabh.
On 28-Mar-07, at 12:14 PM, Saurabh Nanda wrote:
- If the cybercafe has Microsoft Operating system and microsoft
software - production of microsoft open license 2. If it has other software - production of the license to use that software 3. If it is using free software, no license need be produced.
I don't think you need to drill down with such a switch-case clause. Simple stating that "a copy of the license agreemenent is required" would do. For free software people can simply take a printout of the GPL/MPL/APL or whatever. (How many different open source licenses will be required to cover a standard distro -- Ubuntu or FC, say?)
wont work. cops need things spelt out. numbered clauses. little boxen that they can tick.
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 12:04:04 +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
- If it is using free software, no license need be produced.
And surely we will have to define what free means .. :-)
I guess in the document we need to make it mandatory to mention what type of "free (as defined by fsf.org or gnu.org)" or "free (as in gratis)"
that was my 2 paise.
On 28-Mar-07, at 1:16 PM, Laxminarayan G Kamath A wrote:
- If it is using free software, no license need be produced.
And surely we will have to define what free means .. :-)
I guess in the document we need to make it mandatory to mention what type of "free (as defined by fsf.org or gnu.org)" or "free (as in gratis)"
cops dont understand definitions. A list of linux distros need to be given. And a list of commonly used software should also be given - such software should require a license. Example of the list would be:
Microsoft windows - various versions coreldraw pagemaker photoshop RHEL
under distros that dont require license
fedora mandriva slackware debian gnewsense freebsd openbsd
etc etc
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:42:56 +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
cops dont understand definitions. A list of linux distros need to be given. And a list of commonly used software should also be given - such software should require a license. Example of the list would be:
<snip/>
under distros that dont require license
fedora mandriva slackware debian gnewsense freebsd openbsd
I hope the cyber cafes wont misuse it - they may install wine and upon it illegal copies of pirated windows software.
On 28-Mar-07, at 1:37 PM, Laxminarayan G Kamath A wrote:
I hope the cyber cafes wont misuse it - they may install wine and upon it illegal copies of pirated windows software.
they will install dual boot and show the cops linux when they enquire
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 14:03:33 +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
On 28-Mar-07, at 1:37 PM, Laxminarayan G Kamath A wrote:
I hope the cyber cafes wont misuse it - they may install wine and upon it illegal copies of pirated windows software.
they will install dual boot and show the cops linux when they enquire
They will have to: * Boot the machines and show from the beginning. * Show the contents of all partitions. The police will have to * search for unconnected hard disks, inside and outside the CPUS. * run forensic tests on all hard disks. * search for all CDs or more likey DVDs that may contain ghost images(OS dumps) which they can restore.
OR.. if we think a lil out of the technical box :
The police need not always raid in uniform. They can pose as an "unsuspecting, quaint little customer". /me slaps forehead. Why did not I think of this ? 8-B
On Wednesday 28 March 2007 14:03, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On 28-Mar-07, at 1:37 PM, Laxminarayan G Kamath A wrote:
I hope the cyber cafes wont misuse it - they may install wine and upon it illegal copies of pirated windows software.
cost of the os is negligible. the others cost a fortune.
they will install dual boot and show the cops linux when they enquire
So we show the cops how to use cfdisk, unhide partitions and generally create mayhem ;-E
So far so good about the sticks. What about the carrots?
On 28-Mar-07, at 3:26 PM, jtd wrote:
So we show the cops how to use cfdisk, unhide partitions and generally create mayhem ;-E
So far so good about the sticks. What about the carrots?
looks like we have to set up a demo cybercafe with only OSS and see how far we can get. Would be cheaper than buying a satellite anyway. Anyone game for this? We should mint money
Hi,
On 3/29/07, Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
looks like we have to set up a demo cybercafe with only OSS and see how far we can get. Would be cheaper than buying a satellite anyway. Anyone game for this? We should mint money
I agree . This would be a good idea. Perhaps , some educational institutes , companies , Linux distribution companies or even cybercafe associations may be ready to sponsor ( or help by providing old computers ).
We should not worry much about software X not working or hardware Y not compatible . First get the passing marks then look out for cent percent.
Atleast in India , in most cases people adapt themselves to the software and rarely the software adapts to their needs.They become aware of various features when they see it in the latest release. I am sure the learning curve for basic things like browsers , messengers etc in Linux would not be too high ... people will adapt to it , if they do not have any choice.
Regards, Sourabh
On 29-Mar-07, at 11:15 AM, saurabh daptardar wrote:
how far we can get. Would be cheaper than buying a satellite anyway. Anyone game for this? We should mint money
I agree . This would be a good idea. Perhaps , some educational institutes , companies , Linux distribution companies or even cybercafe associations may be ready to sponsor ( or help by providing old computers ).
We should not worry much about software X not working or hardware Y not compatible . First get the passing marks then look out for cent percent.
so lets do it - could you start the process by setting up a wiki page?
--- Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
so lets do it - could you start the process by setting up a wiki page?
Excellent! Looks like we can have one more collaborative effort. I have set up a wiki page initiating a FOSS based Cyber cafe and added a temporary structure to it.
I'm not sure whether the structure is good, but, its a wiki, so you have the authority to change.
Go ahead, get your keys- on the -board. Punch in here
http://db.glug-bom.org/wiki/index.php/FOSS_based_Cyber_Cafe
If the URL is broken, copy paste or navigate from the main page
And passive readers, you too can contribute. :)
-- FSF of India Associate Fellow - http://www.gnu.org.in S K Somaiya College of ASC - http://www.somaiya.edu/sksasc
__________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/
On 3/29/07, Roshan d_rosh2001@yahoo.co.in wrote:
--- Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
so lets do it - could you start the process by setting up a wiki page?
Excellent! Looks like we can have one more collaborative effort. I have set up a wiki page initiating a FOSS based Cyber cafe and added a temporary structure to it.
Few recommendations on the software for the cafe admin -
If its Gnome then
1. Pessulus -
From its about - enables the system administrator to set mandatory settings in
GConf, which apply to all users, restricting what they can do, which may be of particular usefulness for kiosks (internet cafes, for example). Note : This tool has lot of missing features, yet worthwile.
2. Sabayon - www.gnome.org/projects/sabayon About - This powerful tool allows administrators to create profiles for groups of users, for example Programmers or Admin Staff and set certain default and mandatory settings for these groups.
If its KDE then
1. Kiosktool - http://extragear.kde.org/apps/kiosktool/ About : A Point&Click tool for system administrators to enable KDE's KIOSK features or otherwise preconfigure KDE for groups of users.
I am quite hopeful that this initative will result in important lessons in large scale workstation management and such.
regards, C
On 29-Mar-07, at 1:26 PM, Chetan S wrote:
Few recommendations on the software for the cafe admin -
if it is not on the wiki it will be ignored - put it there
On 3/29/07, Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
On 29-Mar-07, at 1:26 PM, Chetan S wrote:
Few recommendations on the software for the cafe admin -
if it is not on the wiki it will be ignored - put it there
Done.
regards, C
On 3/29/07, Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
On 29-Mar-07, at 1:26 PM, Chetan S wrote:
Few recommendations on the software for the cafe admin -
if it is not on the wiki it will be ignored - put it there
Hi all,
I have added a section on benefits of migrating to FOSS Start expanding it with examples , case studies , facts and figures
Regards, Sourabh
Is anyone making any attemp to get the language of the notification/ordinance changed? Anyone with any contacts in the cyber cell of Mumbai?
Saurabh.
On 29-Mar-07, at 5:50 PM, Saurabh Nanda wrote:
Is anyone making any attemp to get the language of the notification/ordinance changed? Anyone with any contacts in the cyber cell of Mumbai?
btw, have added this: http://db.glug-bom.org/wiki/index.php/ FOSS_based_Cyber_Cafe#Costs_from_scratch
On Thursday 29 March 2007 07:20, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On 28-Mar-07, at 3:26 PM, jtd wrote:
So we show the cops how to use cfdisk, unhide partitions and generally create mayhem ;-E
So far so good about the sticks. What about the carrots?
looks like we have to set up a demo cybercafe with only OSS and see how far we can get. Would be cheaper than buying a satellite anyway. Anyone game for this? We should mint money
cost of premises in Mumbai is crazy these days. If someone can provide space, rest could follow. Or choose a non metro which imo would be much better. KG i think it's a good idea and should be cced to all the participants at the last NRCFOSS meet.
On Wednesday 28 March 2007 13:42, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
[snip]
cops dont understand definitions. A list of linux distros need to be given. And a list of commonly used software should also be given
- such software should require a license. Example of the list would
be:
Microsoft windows - various versions coreldraw pagemaker photoshop RHEL [more snip]
Does RHEL require a license to be run? As far as I know running an unlicensed copy of RHEL is, at worst, a trademark violation, plus you don't get updates.
Regards,
-- Raju
On Wednesday 28 March 2007 15:31, Raj Mathur wrote:
On Wednesday 28 March 2007 13:42, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
[snip]
cops dont understand definitions. A list of linux distros need to be given. And a list of commonly used software should also be given - such software should require a license. Example of the list would be:
Microsoft windows - various versions coreldraw pagemaker photoshop RHEL [more snip]
Does RHEL require a license to be run? As far as I know running an unlicensed copy of RHEL is, at worst, a trademark violation, plus you don't get updates.
Afaik it's also a copyright violation IF you copy it with the trademarks as RH owns the copyright on the entire iso. Once you remove RH logos, restricted for distribution apps and drivers, stop calling it Rh and then copy (which means that the rpms are verbatim copy but your new cd is not), it should be fine. And instead of going thru such contortions just use any of the other sensible distros. As someone said recently both M$ and RH are members of NASSCOM ... hmm what about Novell. Prorly still figuring out what agreements they signed.
On 28-Mar-07, at 3:31 PM, Raj Mathur wrote:
Microsoft windows - various versions coreldraw pagemaker photoshop RHEL [more snip]
Does RHEL require a license to be run? As far as I know running an unlicensed copy of RHEL is, at worst, a trademark violation, plus you don't get updates.
check which list I put RHEL in
On 29-Mar-07, at 7:21 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
Microsoft windows - various versions coreldraw pagemaker photoshop RHEL [more snip]
Does RHEL require a license to be run? As far as I know running an unlicensed copy of RHEL is, at worst, a trademark violation, plus you don't get updates.
check which list I put RHEL in
oops, i misread your post - maybe the RH guys can clarify
This license fee is apparently prohibitive and apparently still unclear on the licensing term for public use, and, restrains cyber cafe operators from choosing any other alternative operating systems.
Does anyone have any clarifications on the point above? Does the order/notice/ordinance prohibit cafe owners from installing other operating systems?
Saurabh.
-
Anurag -
Benoy George -
Chetan S -
Frederick Noronha -
jtd -
Kenneth Gonsalves -
Kushal Das -
Laxminarayan G Kamath A -
Mitul Limbani -
Mrugesh Karnik -
Nadeem M. Khan -
Parthan -
Pradeepto Bhattacharya -
Raj Mathur -
Rony -
Roshan -
saurabh daptardar -
Saurabh Nanda -
Siddhesh Poyarekar -
vivek khurana