Hi linuxers-request,
what is more difficult and challenging : being a hacker or a cracker?
Being a hacker. That's because crackers can simply use existing tools, such as rootkits. Hackers actually have to come up with something new and difficult.
I disagree.... hackers and cracker do essentially the same thing although their objectives differ.
Also, in today's climate crackers have another difficult jobs of covering their track to avoid becoming guests of the state......
Regards, Vinay vinay@vinaypai.com
"When you ASSUME you make an ASS of U and ME" - Thomas Harris in 'The Silence of the Lambs'
On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Vinay Pai wrote:
I disagree.... hackers and cracker do essentially the same thing although their objectives differ.
and what would that thing be? how many crackers are involved in writing operating systems? how many crackers are involved in maintaining usenet? how many crackers are involved in problem solving?
no hackers are involved in system break ins. you are wrong. hackers and crackers do completely different things, with completely different objectives.
----- Original Message ----- From: Vinay Pai vinay@vinaypai.com To: linuxers-request@mm.ilug-bom.org.in linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 12:09 PM Subject: Re[2]: [ILUG-BOM] Expecting boo if you are a regular COMPUTER user.
Hi linuxers-request,
what is more difficult and challenging : being a hacker or a cracker?
Being a hacker. That's because crackers can simply use existing tools, such as rootkits. Hackers actually have to come up with something new and difficult.
I disagree.... hackers and cracker do essentially the same thing although their objectives differ.
Also, in today's climate crackers have another difficult jobs of covering their track to avoid becoming guests of the state......
hare brained thinking. CRACKERS STEAL PERIOD HACKERS CREATE. And no amount of verbal gymnastics can change this fact. In the process of stealing you are likely to get badly (or would it be goodly) mangled if caught. The degree of difficulty does not make one a lesser criminal. Also most of their time is spent peering over peoples shoulders for passwords- not a very skillfull activity.
rgds jtdesouza@yahoo.com
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On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, jtd wrote:
are likely to get badly (or would it be goodly) mangled if caught. The degree of difficulty does not make one a lesser criminal. Also most of their
to add to this, according to Ken Thomson. breaking into other people's computers is no more dignified than drunk driving or joyriding in stolen cars.
----- Original Message ----- From: Philip S Tellis philip.tellis@iname.com To: linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] Re: Re[2]: Hackers & crackers
to add to this, according to Ken Thomson. breaking into other people's computers is no more dignified than drunk driving or joyriding in stolen cars.
One might even condone drunken driving as it is committed by people in a state of suspended thought processes. OTOH crackers are probably (permanently) in such a state ;-E
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In this mailing list of power users and programmers, we need to examine how the word "hacker" got its present connotations in the mainstream.... It does not take too much guesswork to see how it has actually happenned. Crackers and Hackers are NOT mutually exclusive. So when a hacker cracked a system and was later caught, you can guess what he must have said asked what he does "I hack! I am a hacker!" In fact when you read the older documents, for example, Hackers by Sterling, you will notice that at a time when the mainstream media was completely clueless about computers (some might say that situation still exists), many crackers and phreakers were in fact quite knowledgable. Additionally, many of them, quite justifiably, considered themselves hackers. So when journalists first started hearing about telephone systems being "hacked" for free calls, it was because they were talking to these phreakers and crackers who WERE knowledgable in what they did. Obviously, journalists did not know anything about this hacker/cracker issue! When this became a huge issue and people began to know about computers and hacking/cracking, they learnt everything from mainstream media. It was at this point that ESR/RMS etc started talking about the differences between ethical people called hackers and schmucks called crackers. but as usual it was too late, the genie was out of the bottle! Even today crackers still style themselves as hackers. And claim to be of two types: black hat and white hat. And many of them are good at programming. So they are hacking and cracking! And as a badge of honor, "hacker" is better in the community, so they will continue to style themselves as hackers and no one can do a thing about it! And mainstream media has latched on to the word so much that convincing them that hackers can be good, legal and ethical is almost impossible. Now lets all think about a way out of this conundrum! Pradeep
----- Original Message ----- From: jtd jtdesouza@yahoo.com To: linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 4:51 PM Subject: [ILUG-BOM] Re: Re[2]: Hackers & crackers
----- Original Message ----- From: Vinay Pai vinay@vinaypai.com To: linuxers-request@mm.ilug-bom.org.in linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 12:09 PM Subject: Re[2]: [ILUG-BOM] Expecting boo if you are a regular COMPUTER
user.
Hi linuxers-request,
what is more difficult and challenging : being a hacker or a cracker?
Being a hacker. That's because crackers can simply use existing tools, such as rootkits. Hackers actually have to come up with something new and difficult.
I disagree.... hackers and cracker do essentially the same thing although their objectives differ.
Also, in today's climate crackers have another difficult jobs of covering their track to avoid becoming guests of the state......
hare brained thinking. CRACKERS STEAL PERIOD HACKERS CREATE. And no amount of verbal gymnastics can change this fact. In the process of stealing you are likely to get badly (or would it be goodly) mangled if caught. The degree of difficulty does not make one a lesser criminal. Also most of
their
time is spent peering over peoples shoulders for passwords- not a very skillfull activity.
rgds jtdesouza@yahoo.com
Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
-
jtd -
Philip S Tellis -
Pradeep Vasudev -
Vinay Pai