Ok before this gets INTOLERABLE, let the Newbie or anyone find both kind of Beings on this list 1. Tolerant: people who are tolerant of u and ur mistakes, and are willing to help u in any means. 2. Critic: People who would criticise you and make u self reliant, make u learn from ur mistakes and become a Quality GLUgeer!!!
Doesn't the World have duality as mentioned in TAO of physics one Mother the other Father, one Soft the other Hard, One male the Other Female, one North the Other South.
So let the Newbies Experience both the North and the South, and take his/her course any where he likes may be to the WEST/EAST. Freedom for Freedom.
Regards yayati.
Sometime Today, yayati singh assembled some asciibets to say:
Doesn't the World have duality as mentioned in TAO of physics one Mother the other Father, one Soft the other Hard, One male the Other Female, one North the Other South.
We could go round in loops forever. What, for example, is the opposite of "I"? You is not the answer. :P
Sometime Today, sir Philip Tellis assembled some asciibets to say:
We could go round in loops forever. What, for example, is the opposite of "I"? You is not the answer. :P
The world, the life every thing is an cycle, and we have to travel that. An old man would behave like he did as an 3 year old after living for 90 years. alls a cycle. When ever Monopoly, proprietary forces dominate the world a FLOSS movement shall prevail, but when ever FLOSS users are divided amongst them selfs again Monopolistic and proprietary forces shall regain. Alls a Big loop sir.
And the opposite of 'I' is not 'You'. But... 'WE'. so lets not mention 'I' on the mailing list but lets address ourselves as 'WE'.
The List is not so old as to distinguish newbies with ,masters, and even if we want to what would be the methodology to distinguish and classify different users, on what basis??? aren't we all still on the edge of the learning cure. Any one who feels he/shes at the acme of the learning curve doesn't need this list. Does Low mail and LUG meet turnout suggest that the so called veteran's are now masters.
Regards Yayati.
Let me say up front that I'm not addressing any one person in particular, but only the ideas listed in the quoted message.
When ever Monopoly, proprietary forces dominate the world a FLOSS
A little misnomer here. Proprietary means something that is owned. In that sense, linux is proprietary - it is owned by Linus Torvalds (no, really). The use of the term proprietary to mean closed source by everyone (including RMS) is wrong.
Just your tidbid of info for today :)
Alls a Big loop sir.
ok, I don't really like being called sir, but there are things I like less.
And the opposite of 'I' is not 'You'. But... 'WE'.
WE encompasses I. It's actually "Not I" as any boolean mathematician or psychologist will tell you ;)
The List is not so old as to distinguish newbies with ,masters, and
It's over 5 years old, and the group a little older. And as far as mastery goes, that takes initiative and self motivation, not age.
even if we want to what would be the methodology to distinguish and classify different users, on what basis??? aren't we all still on the edge of the learning cure.
those who follow the rules and those who don't.
Any one who feels he/shes at the acme of the learning curve doesn't need this list.
but does the list/group need him/her?
Does Low mail and LUG meet turnout suggest that the so called
I believe that people who know a lot refrain from answering trivial questions for one of two reasons - they've already been answered before - someone with a lesser amount of knowledge can answer it
People who don't know a lot refrain from answering mails for one of three reasons - they feel someone who knows more should answer it - they're not sure if their answer is correct - they have only come to the list to get answers and not to give them
So, the only mails you get on the list are from people who want help for seemingly unique problems. They post mails asking for URGENT HELP. They believe it their right to get immediate support because they have done the list members the biggest favour by becoming linux users. They don't even have the decency to format their mails in an easy to read manner.
I for one will not reply to these mails, but then I don't speak for the group. Each of you are welcome to respond in your own way.
As for lug meets, I don't know what the situation is now. In the past the meets would involve one tech talk and a lot of socialising. The last few meets that I attended were just like lectures, and while many are eager to attend lectures, no one is willing to give them. The socialising session didn't last very long either.
Being a linux user's group is not so much listening to lectures - you can do that by signing up for a class. It's about being a bunch of buddies with a common interest, and most importantly, a _willingness_ to share the brightest or stupidest ideas that you have without fear that someone will laugh, or reservation that someone will steal it.
Regrettably, all my recent posts to this list have been grouchy old man rants. Tolerance I still have. Hair I'm losing fast.
On 12/08/04 19:53 +0530, Philip Tellis wrote: <snip>
And the opposite of 'I' is not 'You'. But... 'WE'.
WE encompasses I. It's actually "Not I" as any boolean mathematician or psychologist will tell you ;)
ITYM !I
The List is not so old as to distinguish newbies with ,masters, and
It's over 5 years old, and the group a little older. And as far as mastery goes, that takes initiative and self motivation, not age.
And some reading.
even if we want to what would be the methodology to distinguish and classify different users, on what basis??? aren't we all still on the edge of the learning cure.
those who follow the rules and those who don't.
Any one who feels he/shes at the acme of the learning curve doesn't need this list.
but does the list/group need him/her?
To elaborate on this point, my first response to a query is almost always "Why should I answer this query? Is it worth my time to answer the question posed?"
If the query has been answered often, and it can be found on google, then I will not answer it. If the poster uses HTML, or long lines, or otherwise violates netiquette, then I am usually not interested in answering a query. I do the newbie helping elsewhere, on more specialised topics.
If you are in a position to contribute value, please do. If not, please do not add to the noise. Please do your research first. You will find that the situation has improved dramatically from what it was from a few years ago. I do know that a large number of list posts are on Google and they are still valid and useful.
Does Low mail and LUG meet turnout suggest that the so called
I believe that people who know a lot refrain from answering trivial questions for one of two reasons
- they've already been answered before
- someone with a lesser amount of knowledge can answer it
Also, because answering those isn't worth the time we have to spend on offering support and handholding.
People who don't know a lot refrain from answering mails for one of three reasons
- they feel someone who knows more should answer it
- they're not sure if their answer is correct
- they have only come to the list to get answers and not to give them
So, the only mails you get on the list are from people who want help for seemingly unique problems. They post mails asking for URGENT HELP. They believe it their right to get immediate support because they have done the list members the biggest favour by becoming linux users. They don't even have the decency to format their mails in an easy to read manner.
I for one will not reply to these mails, but then I don't speak for the group. Each of you are welcome to respond in your own way.
I do notice that most of the older LUG members don't post much on the list. Are we all jaded and tired of handholding people who don't learn to RTFM and just treat the list as free consultancy?
As for lug meets, I don't know what the situation is now. In the past the meets would involve one tech talk and a lot of socialising. The last few meets that I attended were just like lectures, and while many are eager to attend lectures, no one is willing to give them. The socialising session didn't last very long either.
The one I attended was quite good wrt the social atmosphere.
Being a linux user's group is not so much listening to lectures - you can do that by signing up for a class. It's about being a bunch of buddies with a common interest, and most importantly, a _willingness_ to share the brightest or stupidest ideas that you have without fear that someone will laugh, or reservation that someone will steal it.
Regrettably, all my recent posts to this list have been grouchy old man rants. Tolerance I still have. Hair I'm losing fast.
Thats ok. Hair loss can be treated.
/me runs
Devdas Bhagat PS: Someone had asked me at the LUG meet for some slides on Postfix. Please mail me offlist for the specific slides you want. I will post links to the list.
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, Devdas Bhagat spake thusly:
I do notice that most of the older LUG members don't post much on the list. Are we all jaded and tired of handholding people who don't learn to RTFM and just treat the list as free consultancy?
Little wonder : do you recall when we had our last refreshing interesting technical/philosophical debate here ? This list has been taken over by FLOSS missionaries who want to convert all to GNU/Linux. On top of that people blatantly break list rules. And all we do is argue about *that*.
As for lug meets, I don't know what the situation is now. In the past the meets would involve one tech talk and a lot of socialising. The last few meets that I attended were just like lectures, and while many are eager to attend lectures, no one is willing to give them. The socialising session didn't last very long either.
The one I attended was quite good wrt the social atmosphere.
Maybe you did'nt attend a few I did. I agree with Philip about those boring ones. Things, I guess, are no longer for fun -- people with agenda's have a more prominent presence.
Morning Quasi,
It's good to hear from you quasi on socio-political issues..:D. Since you have taken the intiative to critically throw much light on the behavioural patterns of us FLOSS'ers, we invite you to take up the podium at the next upcoming lug meeting and share your humble thoughts with us.
We will be glad to have chai-pani with the great personality you are and cherish your thought process that you treasure deep within about FLOSS/Gnu/Linux.
Trevor
===== ( >- -< ) /~\ ______________________________________ /~\ | ) / Scaling FLOSS in the Enterprise \ (/ | |_|_ \ trevorwarren@yahoo.com / _|_| ____________________________________/
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On Sat, 14 Aug 2004, Trevor Warren spake thusly:
It's good to hear from you quasi on socio-political issues..:D. Since you have taken the intiative to critically throw much light on the behavioural patterns of us FLOSS'ers, we invite you to take up the podium at the next upcoming lug meeting and share your humble thoughts with us.
It must have taken great doing to read so much from one line of mine. The truth is I havent the faintest about FLOSS'ers. So invitation declined with great regret. Also, I dont have any humble thoughts on me.
We will be glad to have chai-pani with the great personality you are and cherish your thought process
People can feel my presence wherever they are due to the great nature of my greatness - I dont need to be physically present.
--- quasi quasiabhi@softhome.net wrote:
People can feel my presence wherever they are due to the great nature of my greatness - I dont need to be physically present.
LOL ! Quasi, You're one person I really want to meet :-)
Thanks to you complaining about top posts, I've learnt what a "top post" is.
-- quasi
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Afternoon All,
August 28 has been designated as "Software Freedom Day". With the GLUG in mumbai having a significant presence it would make sence for us to draft a plan of action laying out the activities of the day.
http://softwarefreedomday.org/index.html
Please check the link above for more information.
We could distribute pamphlets talking about Software
Freedom at various prominent locations across the city.
We could retail badges/stickers/banners supporting
the FLOSS movement and providing information about the same.
Various software companies have their
offices/development centres in mumbai. We have our volunteers at these outlets disseminating information pertaining to the FLOSS movement.
A 2-3 hour workshop can be conducted at some place
in the city focussing on the importance and role played by "Software Freedom" which would be open to one and all. We can invite some distiguished speakers to preside and share their view points on the same.
We have little time at our disposal. This event we can celebrate and we will need some funds with respect to carrying out the activities as listed. Please come forward with your criticism/suggestions with respect to the same.
Towards meeting expenses with respect to the same in case we decide to celebrate "Software Freedom Day" i suggest the formation of a trust to be taken care by a treasurer nominated unanimously by GLUG-BOM. A donation of 1000/- toware the same is a sum assured on my behalf.
Trevor
===== ( >- -< ) /~\ ______________________________________ /~\ | ) / Scaling FLOSS in the Enterprise \ (/ | |_|_ \ trevorwarren@yahoo.com / _|_| ____________________________________/
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Afternoon All,
August 28 has been designated as "Software Freedom Day". With the GLUG in mumbai having a significant presence it would make sence for us to draft a plan of action laying out the activities of the day.
http://softwarefreedomday.org/index.html
Please check the link above for more information.
We could distribute pamphlets talking about Software
Freedom at various prominent locations across the city.
We could retail badges/stickers/banners supporting
the FLOSS movement and providing information about the same.
Various software companies have their
offices/development centres in mumbai. We have our volunteers at these outlets disseminating information pertaining to the FLOSS movement.
A 2-3 hour workshop can be conducted at some place
in the city focussing on the importance and role played by "Software Freedom" which would be open to one and all. We can invite some distiguished speakers to preside and share their view points on the same.
We have little time at our disposal. This event we can celebrate and we will need some funds with respect to carrying out the activities as listed. Please come forward with your criticism/suggestions with respect to the same.
Towards meeting expenses with respect to the same in case we decide to celebrate "Software Freedom Day" i suggest the formation of a trust to be taken care by a treasurer nominated unanimously by GLUG-BOM. A donation of 1000/- toware the same is a sum assured on my behalf.
Trevor
===== ( >- -< ) /~\ ______________________________________ /~\ | ) / Scaling FLOSS in the Enterprise \ (/ | |_|_ \ trevorwarren@yahoo.com / _|_| ____________________________________/
__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
-
Devdas Bhagat -
Philip Tellis -
quasi -
Sriram N -
Trevor Warren -
yayati singh