Hello. At the outset I would like to tell you that I am a novice in Linux and don't know much. I have always treated Linux as an experimental OS to fool around with, because it is not very user friendly and the main problem of MS software is that they are very expensive. But here in Bombay, India that problem gets solved due to blatant software piracy which helps users like me use the amazingly high priced software at down to earth prices. Anyway before I started fooling around with Redhat Linux 8.0, I had no idea what "making" meant and how it had to be done. I am not a programmer!!. I installed Redhat Linux 8.0 from the CDs and it got stuck at the installation screen itself. I have the following hardware :- Compaq Presario 7000A4 PIII 933 MHz 256 MB RAM Riva TNT II with 32 MB RAM Hda with 30 GB Win2k ntfs Hdb with 10 GB > Hdb1 Linux main > hdb5 Linux swap > hdb6 msdos USB keyboard Compaq internet keyboard PS/2 mouse and some Firewire hardware for Digital camera (I think). DVD drive and internal modem (Conexant HCF)
The Installation failed to get my USB keyboard and it kept waiting for an input. No failsafe mechanisms !! Luckily I had an old simple keyboard which came in handy, and helped us install the damn software. Then after booting it again I realised it recognised my USB keyboard down to the vendor etc but could not use it for some stupid reason.It gave the following error about a zillion times during kernel startup >> usb_control/bulk_msg: timeout Also it recognised my modem but again could not find it by software detect from pppd. So I went about searching the net high and low to get a solution, but to no avail. Thanks to Mr.Michael Fischer ,Professor of Computer Science @Yale who had a similar problem with his HP USB keyboard and as per his suggestion, I got the new kernel source for 2.4.19 (bloody 30MB download over a dialup) and then also the patch file to 2.4.20-pre10. It worked!!!
<< I had to learn how to patch the kernel source, and also how to make the damn kernel itself. Painful experience I must say..>>
To the new kernel, I added NTFS support. (Redhat has something against NTFS support, it doesn't compile it into the kernel by default). And reduced the size by removing unnecessary hardware support from 1.1 MB to 780 KB. WoW !! I worked out a way in which USB keyboard was used in HID Boot Protocol method. Simply edit your /etc/modules.conf to read alias usb-controller usbkbd ........instead of alias usb-controller usb-uhci. This loaded the usbkbd.o file (u have to "make" it through the .config file inside the kernel making factory by activating CONFIG_USB_KBD=m). It worked perfectly and doesn't give any more errors regarding timeouts..
I then went on to download the hcfpcimodem-0.98mbsibeta02090200-1.i386.rpm binary RPM for my Conexant HCF internal modem from mbsi.com. Thanks Mark Boucher for the great software !! After installation it asks you to run a script called hcfpciconfig which not only configures your modem but also figures out if you are using a kernel which it will have to compile a modem driver for !! Great.. And it did just that for my kernel 2.4.20-pre10custom version. And automatically configured it too..
So now I have the keyboard, NTFS support and modem working perfectly. Long way for Redhat to go before they can compare to the likes of Apple and Microsoft. I wonder why anybody would even remotely think of comparing Linux at this stage to MS products or even MacOS?? I'd say it would take another 5-7 years before they can catch up to what other OSes are today.
Thanks everybody for all the amazing help provided online today and in the past which helps novices like me to get our systems working.. thanks a lot.. Hope this file will get other people like me out of their misery. Bye. Dr. Atul Garg. atulrg <at> rediffmail.com
PS:- More about making a kernel. You need to have the kernel source installed. It goes to the folder /usr/src/linux-2.4.19 etc. If you want to patch >> download patch and extract it to /usr/src folder. Use patch -p0 < patch file name. Then use the graphical utility "make xconfig" is the command, or simply go to control center > system tools > kernel config. Alter the source path to whatever your version of kernel is. If you want to use the old .config file for safety sake, pull it out of the default kernel source (e.g.: Redhat 8.0 CD has kernel 2.4.18-14. /usr/src/linux-2.4.18-14/.config is the file) or you may find it at /boot/config-2.4.18-14. Always save the original file to some safe place because you always tend to "make" mistakes(pun intended here). Alter the file, for your system and add whatever you want, delete hardware support etc. Now use the following commands to MAKE the kernel in the directory /usr/src/linux-urversion:- make symlinks dep >> computes dependencies. make clean >> Housekeeping operation make bzImage >> makes the kernel make modules >> Module factory at work make modules_install >> relocating modules to work perfectly make install >> relocating your kernel files to work..
PLEASE READ THE REDHAT LINUX DOCUMENTATION THAT COMES ALONG WITH THE INSTALLATION CDs BEFORE YOU DO ALL THIS. File to read file:///mnt/cdrom/RH-DOCS/rhl-cg-en-8.0/s1-custom-kernel.html or so.
Search engine keywords :- REDHAT LINUX 8.0, Psyche 8.0, kernel 2.4.18-14, 2.4.19, patching kernel source, making a kernel, keyboard USB, Compaq internet keyboard, usbkbd.o, HID Boot protocol, Conexant HCF and HSF internal modems.
On Sun, 20 Oct 2002 18:27:16 +0530 "Dr. Atul Garg" atulrg@net4india.com wrote:
[snip]
I wonder why anybody would even remotely think of comparing Linux at this stage to MS products or even MacOS?? I'd say it would take another 5-7 years before they can catch up to what other OSes are today.
Sir
With due respect, let me remind you that MacOS is written by the same company that made the hardware, so all the compatibility issues come resolved automatically. In case of MS Products, the hardware (and accompanying driver software) is made to work with the OS due to it's market dominance. Ever seen those "Designed for Microsoft Windows xyz" stickers? The manufacturers can only stick them if their hardware works in Windows. To make somethings clear:
Linux is not Windows. Linux is not MacOS. No one compelled you to use Linux. Linux works for me. Linux (eventually) worked for you. Use it if you like it. Don't use it if you don't like it. But please, not another "Linux is no good..." comment.
Thank you
On Oct 20, 2002 at 18:27, Dr. Atul Garg wrote:
[A strange mixture of understanding and anti-linuxness]
At the outset I would like to tell you that I am a novice in Linux and don't know much.
I have always treated Linux as an experimental OS to fool around with,
It is certainly good for that.
because it is not very user friendly and the main problem of MS software
Nah, just picky about who its friends are. Like any other unix.
is that they are very expensive. But here in Bombay, India that problem gets solved due to blatant software piracy which helps users like me use the amazingly high priced software at down to earth prices.
But it's not legal, is it? Anyway, that's not the point of my response.
Anyway before I started fooling around with Redhat Linux 8.0, I had no idea what "making" meant and how it had to be done. I am not a programmer!!.
You don't have to be, that's why we have makefiles.
Compaq Presario 7000A4
Which does not mean anything (fyi).
Riva TNT II with 32 MB RAM
Nice!
USB keyboard Compaq internet keyboard
I have to admit that USB isn't well-settled in Linux yet, but as you found out there are ways.
The Installation failed to get my USB keyboard and it kept waiting for an input. No failsafe mechanisms !!
Well, it's an installation, it does not know what you have.
Luckily I had an old simple keyboard which came in handy, and helped us install the damn software.
There you go. The epithet is unnecessary. But you'll find there _was_ a fallback, if not a failsafe. You only had to have a brain (which you do, since you solved the problem) and realise that trying a 'regular' keyboard will work.
In a way, it is a failsafe. You don't want unknown USB commands being given to an unknown device.
Then after booting it again I realised it recognised my USB keyboard down to the vendor etc but could not use it for some stupid reason.It
Hmm, but you solved it, right?
suggestion, I got the new kernel source for 2.4.19 (bloody 30MB download over a dialup) and then also the patch file to 2.4.20-pre10. It worked!!!
Yay. You just needed a newer kernel. Blame Redhat, if you must, for not providing the untainted source.
<< I had to learn how to patch the kernel source, and also how to make the damn kernel itself. Painful experience I must say..>>
But you're better for it. After all, you got:
To the new kernel, I added NTFS support. (Redhat has something against
NTFS support...
reduced the size by removing unnecessary hardware support from 1.1 MB to 780 KB. WoW !! I worked out a way in which USB keyboard was used in HID
and a kernel size reduction. Your kernel is now better optimized to your needs.
Simply edit your /etc/modules.conf to read
and you're calling this process 'simple'. Give it up, you're one of us now :-)
This loaded the usbkbd.o file (u have to "make" it through the .config file inside the kernel making factory by activating CONFIG_USB_KBD=m).
See? Pretty easy, once you RTFM as you did.
So now I have the keyboard, NTFS support and modem working perfectly.
Yay!
Long way for Redhat to go before they can compare to the likes of Apple and Microsoft.
But is it? Consider what you have achieved.
You, a self-proclaimed Linux newbie and non-programmer, managed to install Linux on a 'non-standard' system, successfully, and even patched your own kernel while doing it. All without asking this list (and others, probably) stupid questions. There's no such thing as a stupid question, of course, but even if you asked "newbie-level" questions, you have obviously learned something, and that's Good.
I would challenge you to do the equivalent on a Windows or MacOS system in a similar timeframe and with similar help.
Now you will of course claim that you wouldn't need to, in the first place. I have no answer to that.
I wonder why anybody would even remotely think of comparing Linux at this stage to MS products or even MacOS?? I'd say it would take another 5-7 years before they can catch up to what other OSes are today.
In what way?
to "make" mistakes(pun intended here). Alter the file, for your system and add whatever you want, delete hardware support etc.
See? You have perfectly understood the kernel compile and patching processes. Not fully, but you have understood everything that you need.
And your email is in the archives, and should be searchable by google, so those who come after you can benefit from your experience, just as you have benefitted from those who went before you.
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Dr. Atul Garg -
Satya -
Tahir Hashmi