Hi all,
There was this link I followed from slashdot. It's a Computer Weekly article which documents Novell calling Linux as an immature OS.
In case you're wondering, "Who will make it mature and industrial strength?" -- Novell will!
Here's the link: http://www.computerweekly.com/articles/article.asp?liArticleID=121012
It's hight time all of us mailed Novell telling them _it's GNU/Linux_ and it is already a mature OS. So mature that it makes software companies are strangulate their own OS projects.
Or maybe we could all mail them saying that, "Geee you're right, Linux is immature. But hey! have you tried GNU/Linux... it's more powerfull than most Linuxes out-there".
Tch.. tch... management speak :)
Warm wishes,
Amol Hatwar.
___________________________________________ It's most certainly GNU/Linux, and not Linux. Read more here: http://www.gnu.org/gnu/why-gnu-linux.html
On Thursday 17 April 2003 14:09, Amol Hatwar wrote:
Hi all,
There was this link I followed from slashdot. It's a Computer Weekly article which documents Novell calling Linux as an immature OS.
snip
Strange coincidence that one Ray Noorda is associated with Novell and Sco.
Amol Hatwar writes:
It's hight time all of us mailed Novell telling them _it's GNU/Linux_ and it is already a mature OS. So mature that it makes software companies are strangulate their own OS projects.
Why? Strangle the web with even more crap traffic? And thanks for the info....I did'nt know that software companies were so involved in rolling their "own OSes"...name me 5-10 for more enlightenment.
Or maybe we could all mail them saying that, "Geee you're right, Linux is immature. But hey! have you tried GNU/Linux... it's more powerfull than most Linuxes out-there".
And what might the difference between GNU/Linux and "most Linuxes" be?
This nomenclatural fight that seems to crop on giving proper "recognition" to GNU+Linux rather than just Linux seems to get a lot carried away at times. The whole purpose of the GNU project was to allow free source sharing, as well as a whole set of values. And not just crap hum-dum about what a particular group thinks should be the way that Open Source must be run. But as this GNU/Linux and Linux divide seems to grow, more and more people who write actual good code are in the news, and it is the zealots who seem to have more time to fight about "ideals" rather than write the code that has an even greater impact on Open Source and GNU....
Though what I said might sound harsh to some, it is said with due respect for people who have found the balance between promoting Open Source via Writing good software and promoting. My only problem is people who make these pompous statements which hardly sync with reality. But I guess they are just as entitled to their opinions and actions just as much as I am.
rgds --
On Thu, Apr 17, 2003 at 10:03:00PM -0600, zeeble@softhome.net wrote:
Why? Strangle the web with even more crap traffic? And thanks for the info....I did'nt know that software companies were so involved in rolling their "own OSes"...name me 5-10 for more enlightenment.
Why 5-10? Ask for 50-100 and I am sure you will get atleast those many. If you thought that the only OS'es in this world are *nix, Solaris, Windows think again! There's a whole menagerie of operating systems out there!
And what might the difference between GNU/Linux and "most Linuxes" be?
Whoa, I thought the original message was meant to be sarcastic / humurous about Novell's announcement ... I don't think the OP actually meant to distinguish between GNU/Linux and Linux ... yikes, imagine that!!!
run. But as this GNU/Linux and Linux divide seems to grow, more and more people who write actual good code are in the news, and it is the zealots who seem to have more time to fight about "ideals" rather than write the code that has an even greater impact on Open Source and GNU....
Peace! Never heard of a divide between GNU/Linux and Linux enthusiasts. Zealots will always be zealots and hackers will always be hackers. And sometimes, one person might be both! And as Free Software gets more popular ... there's a breed more dangerous than zealots that will join the fray - half-informed "technical" media persons who are simply gonna make life even worse (or better, depending on whether you enjoy such flamewars or not)
Writing good software and promoting. My only problem is people who make these pompous statements which hardly sync with reality. But I guess they are just as entitled to their opinions and actions just as much as I am.
Like I said, the original mail was probably meant to be humurous. Would like to add that not all supporters of Free Software contribute through software - there are people who are last in the line to be called "hackers", or even "programmers" ... they are here only because the understand the concept of Freedom and love the community that's built itself around it. They do their bit too by promoting Free Software *and* fighting verbal wars over it, and are required in more numbers because of the increasing popularity of this damn cool way of life.
Sameer.
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:03:00 -0600 zeeble@softhome.net wrote:
This nomenclatural fight that seems to crop on giving proper "recognition" to GNU+Linux rather than just Linux seems to get a lot carried away at
As much as I like computers, I like cars. And in the automobile industry, a product is known more by the name of the company who put together the chassis etc. than by the supplier of the engine. In case of assemblers of CKDs, the assembler's name is associated with that of the maker of the kit.
Here we are in the software domain going gaga over the engine (Linux, the kernel) while we ignore the kit-maker (GNU). Tell me what good would Linux (just the kernel, that is) be to you? The only CKD assembler I know that recognizes the kit maker is Debian. So it calls it's distribution Debian GNU/Linux.
Sure you all know that "Linux" runs on, well, Linux. How many of you know who supplied the engine for Chevrolet Forester? Or the LeMans winning McLaren F1 cars?
times. The whole purpose of the GNU project was to allow free source sharing, as well as a whole set of values. And not just crap hum-dum about what a particular group thinks should be the way that Open Source must be
True. And this is the exact very reason that FSF is keen on associating the term GNU with Linux. So that every user of GNU/Linux remembers that the whole thing is not just about a kernel or an OS, it's about the freedom of software writers and users. It's about the GNU philosophy.
run. But as this GNU/Linux and Linux divide seems to grow, more and more people who write actual good code are in the news, and it is the zealots who seem to have more time to fight about "ideals" rather than write the code that has an even greater impact on Open Source and GNU....
Dude, you need to take a break. Not even Linus thinks the way you do. Do you have an idea of how much of the Free and Open Source software is developed using dev tools supplied by GNU? If you had, you wouldn't have made such a statement. Heck, even Linux is compiled with gcc. The zealots... LOL!
Though what I said might sound harsh to some, it is said with due respect for people who have found the balance between promoting Open Source via Writing good software and promoting. My only problem is people who make these pompous statements which hardly sync with reality. But I guess they are just as entitled to their opinions and actions just as much as I am.
As a writer of Free Software myself, I consider highlighting GNU's contribution to Linux (as a usable OS), a measure to increase the popularity and ensure the longevity of my freedom.
On Friday 18 April 2003 09:33, zeeble@softhome.net wrote:
Why? Strangle the web with even more crap traffic? And thanks for the info....I did'nt know that software companies were so involved in rolling their "own OSes"...name me 5-10 for more enlightenment.
From http://www.freeos.com website 1) Linux 2) FreeBSD 3) FreeDOS 4) OpenBSD 5) NetBSD 6) eCos 7) Minix 8) Oberon 9) ReactOS
And pleeease dont forget SCO unix and Novell.
And what might the difference between GNU/Linux and "most Linuxes" be?
GNU denotes the principles, knowledgebase and the software emanating from the application of GNU philosphy. Linux is the kernel.
This nomenclatural fight that seems to crop on giving proper "recognition" to GNU+Linux rather than just Linux seems to get a lot carried away at times. The whole purpose of the GNU project was to allow free source sharing, as well as a whole set of values.
That is precisely the point. One needs to draw eyeballs to these values. Focusing on the name is one very good method of doing so. IMHO the battle is more political than technical. E.g. the doc file format. No supernatural technical magic in there, just the establishment maintaining the status quo and the coders having to waste time reverse engineering rather than creating.
not just crap hum-dum about what a particular group thinks should be the way that Open Source must be run. But as this GNU/Linux and Linux divide seems to grow, more and more people who write actual good code are in the news, and it is the zealots who seem to have more time to fight about "ideals" rather than write the code that has an even greater impact on Open Source and GNU....
The real world is not paradise. There are stingRAYs and sadams and bushes and blares with gates and windows thrown in for spice. While the technically competent focus on coding the bad guys are busy shutting them out from viltal elements of infrastucture. One needs the zealots to drum up sufficient attention to this shutting off. Opensource requires the resources of the closed source companies. Hence the compromise on saying things the sponsors dont like and the "growing divide". It's the age old my bread v/s your freedom.
Though what I said might sound harsh to some, it is said with due respect for people who have found the balance between promoting Open Source via Writing good software and promoting. My only problem is people who make these pompous statements which hardly sync with reality.
Not quite. Opensource convineintly ignores issues of vital importance to the public in order to garner crumbs thrown in by their sponsors, who will any way drop them like hot bricks at the first opportunity. It is also IMHO a lack of confidence in the power of the FSF philosophy. Eventually the microsofts, SCOs and Novells will have to ditch their crap in order to improve GNU/Linux. Any step to compromise is one step too many.
----- Original Message ----- From: zeeble@softhome.net To: linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 9:33 AM Subject: [ILUG-BOM] Re: Linux, Immature?
Amol Hatwar writes:
It's hight time all of us mailed Novell telling them _it's GNU/Linux_
and it
is already a mature OS. So mature that it makes software companies are strangulate their own OS projects.
Zeeble writes:
Why? Strangle the web with even more crap traffic? And thanks for the info....I did'nt know that software companies were so involved in rolling their "own OSes"...name me 5-10 for more enlightenment.
Amol writes again: My original mail was supposed to have a punch of humour. Seems that these days everything gets taken seriously. Maybe we should start prepending [Humour] on the subject lines of mails written in a lighter spirit. :)
ah
I did try to educate a few readers in this short (and I hope "sweet") article on NewsForge: http://newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/03/31/1527206
However, it turned into a discussion about Richard Stallman's character, the character of GNU supporters, etc. Very few understood the real reason why the article was published. :(
Clinton Goveas http://www.clintongoveas.com
On Fri, Apr 18, 2003 at 03:53:21PM +0530, Clinton Goveas wrote:
However, it turned into a discussion about Richard Stallman's character, the character of GNU supporters, etc. Very few understood the real reason why the article was published. :(
Most respondents on the page don't even know what they are talking about ... nor do they understand where GNU ends and Linux begins!
Sameer.
On Fri, Apr 18, 2003 at 03:53:21PM +0530, Clinton Goveas wrote:
However, it turned into a discussion about Richard Stallman's character, the character of GNU supporters, etc. Very few understood the real reason why the article was published. :(
Most respondents on the page don't even know what they are talking about ... nor do they understand where GNU ends and Linux begins!
Let us close this thread.
I was hoping we could all get together and launch an e-mail campaign against Novell for this.
Warm regards,
ah
-
Amol Hatwar -
Clinton Goveas -
jtd -
Sameer D. Sahasrabuddhe -
Tahir Hashmi -
zeeble＠softhome.net