Schools are being prevented from enjoying a revolution in software provision, and self-sufficiency is being halted by the promotion of dependency, said Ian Lynch, spokesman for the Open Schools Alliance.
"Innovation starts with teachers and pupils, but under BSF the school's IT strategy is taken out of its hands," he said.
see more news at how Microsoft is trying to lock students at an early stage http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04/19/school-odf-koffice-nlnet/
We (those us us from Kerala) can be proud that we did not let our children to suffer, but be watchful, they are trying hard. See how Microsoft's playmate Infosys is selling our children and our countries future.
http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm/browse_thread/thread/5187fd263da0e0d...
On 20-Apr-08, at 6:06 PM, Praveen A wrote:
We (those us us from Kerala) can be proud that we did not let our children to suffer,
you have shifted back to Kerala? Your kids are studying in Kerala?
On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 11:39 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
On 20-Apr-08, at 6:06 PM, Praveen A wrote:
We (those us us from Kerala) can be proud that we did not let our children to suffer,
you have shifted back to Kerala? Your kids are studying in Kerala?
One NGO that was posting to the PLUG (Pune) had tried to use the RTI Act to try and get information from some Maharashtra State Govt. depts, IIRC including the education dept., about use of OpenOffice and Microsoft Office. Didn't succeed by any measure.
If you remember, two years back, Bill G. through his foundation had donated some hardware etc. to the State Edu. Dept. for public primary schools. I have been saying it since then that it has 2 purposes: early lock in and shaming the govt. to buying MSware.
Praveen A wrote:
We (those us us from Kerala) can be proud that we did not let our children to suffer, but be watchful, they are trying hard. See how Microsoft's playmate Infosys is selling our children and our countries future.
http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm/browse_thread/thread/5187fd263da0e0d...
A thought comes to my mind. What if someone says, "At least M$ and Co. are spending money on IT education and providing free computers and learning infrastructure to rural children. What about the other side?". Just a thought. What infrastructure can we provide?
On Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 08:33:05PM +0530, Rony wrote:
A thought comes to my mind. What if someone says, "At least M$ and Co. are spending money on IT education and providing free computers and learning infrastructure to rural children. What about the other side?". Just a thought. What infrastructure can we provide?
They're spending your own money. And it is a form of investment to them, to hook new comers to their products so that they remain loyal to them and purchase their softwares in the future, thus replishing the investment many times over. Free Open Source may not provide them with tangible infrastructure but it helps them gain knowledge about not just the product but the whole concept just avoiding midless lock in to just one vendor/a group of vendors. Like has been mentioned many times before if we bring in financial arguments they bring in statistics and freebies to tip the scale in their favour.
Mehul Ved wrote:
On Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 08:33:05PM +0530, Rony wrote:
A thought comes to my mind. What if someone says, "At least M$ and Co. are spending money on IT education and providing free computers and learning infrastructure to rural children. What about the other side?". Just a thought. What infrastructure can we provide?
They're spending your own money. And it is a form of investment to them, to hook new comers to their products so that they remain loyal to them and purchase their softwares in the future, thus replishing the investment many times over. Free Open Source may not provide them with tangible infrastructure but it helps them gain knowledge about not just the product but the whole concept just avoiding midless lock in to just one vendor/a group of vendors. Like has been mentioned many times before if we bring in financial arguments they bring in statistics and freebies to tip the scale in their favour.
I know their strategy and intentions behind it but what I want to know is when an M$ guy distributes free PCs to classrooms and if we want them to refuse it, what alternative do we have to offer to those PC-less classrooms?
Rony,
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Rony <> wrote:
I know their strategy and intentions behind it but what I want to know is when an M$ guy distributes free PCs to classrooms and if we want them to refuse it, what alternative do we have to offer to those PC-less classrooms?
Offer schools to load Free Software on those PCs . ;-) So that they can have best of both worlds. Free PC from M$ and Free Software!
-- Regards,
Rony.
What Say? With regards,
On Tuesday 22 April 2008 09:55 am, Dinesh Shah wrote:
Rony,
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Rony <> wrote:
I know their strategy and intentions behind it but what I want to know is when an M$ guy distributes free PCs to classrooms and if we want them to refuse it, what alternative do we have to offer to those PC-less classrooms?
Offer schools to load Free Software on those PCs . ;-) So that they can have best of both worlds. Free PC from M$ and Free Software!
Afaik it comes with a M$ caveat that makes you agree to not install anything else. I havent seen any such agreement though.
Dinesh Shah wrote:
Rony,
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Rony <> wrote:
I know their strategy and intentions behind it but what I want to know is when an M$ guy distributes free PCs to classrooms and if we want them to refuse it, what alternative do we have to offer to those PC-less classrooms?
Offer schools to load Free Software on those PCs . ;-) So that they can have best of both worlds. Free PC from M$ and Free Software!
What Say?
That is what I had in mind too. But as JTD mentioned, M$ comps come with that caveat.
In Britain, some schools were given specially discounted M$ software that had an open license which covered all their PCs irrespective of whether they had Doze on them. So even when they purchased new PCs, they had to pay M$ for that machine too even if they did not use Doze on it. Out of frustration they started looking out for full Libre solutions.
In this case however, if the schools knocked off Doze from M$ donated machines then what would the penalty be? Would M$ take back the machines or ask the schools to pay a fine? That would be interesting to see, once the media got wind of this.
On Tuesday 22 April 2008 03:50 pm, Rony wrote:
That is what I had in mind too. But as JTD mentioned, M$ comps come with that caveat.
In Britain, some schools were given specially discounted M$ software that had an open license which covered all their PCs irrespective of whether they had Doze on them. So even when they purchased new PCs, they had to pay M$ for that machine too even if they did not use Doze on it. Out of frustration they started looking out for full Libre solutions.
In this case however, if the schools knocked off Doze from M$ donated machines then what would the penalty be? Would M$ take back the machines or ask the schools to pay a fine? That would be interesting to see, once the media got wind of this.
In any case the M$ $oftware offered to schools is crippled (no M$office, no media player etc.). If you want all of the bloatware u pay fat money.
A thought comes to my mind. What if someone says, "At least M$ and Co. are spending money on IT education and providing free computers and learning infrastructure to rural children. What about the other side?". Just a thought. What infrastructure can we provide?
Microsoft or any proprietory company never provides any thing for free. it is some thing like give the first dose of heroin or smak for free or perhaps a couple more so that the entire generation can be diseased. microsoft is not sitting there for charity. agreed that no one sits for charity alone that can't sustain once life. but microsoft is not doing fair gaime either. all that they are doing is to create a sort of "east india company " of today. for the other side, it is not our responsibility to "provide " infrastructure persay. what we give is much more valuable and that is the freedom and the way to it. we give free knowledge and all of us although earning money as a must for life at least don't want to do dirty sanskar (teachings_ on young kids to sell their own selves to some one person or organisation. the problem is that is the government's educational system ready to take our knowledge and provide the proper infrastructure? we must any ways not rely on others out side to provide infrastructure. happy hacking. Krishnakant.
-- Regards,
Rony.
GNU/Linux ! No Viruses No Spyware Only Freedom.
krishnakant Mane wrote:
A thought comes to my mind. What if someone says, "At least M$ and Co. are spending money on IT education and providing free computers and learning infrastructure to rural children. What about the other side?". Just a thought. What infrastructure can we provide?
for the other side, it is not our responsibility to "provide " infrastructure persay.
It is not Microsoft's either.
what we give is much more valuable and that is the freedom and the way to it.
We are not giving freedom. We can only make people aware of it.
the problem is that is the government's educational system ready to take our knowledge and provide the proper infrastructure?
Government does not have funds even for regular schools.
we must any ways not rely on others out side to provide infrastructure.
That is why I asked what could we offer.
On 22/04/2008, Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com wrote:
for the other side, it is not our responsibility to "provide " infrastructure persay.
It is not Microsoft's either.
Dear rony, did you intend to suggest that microsoft is doing a huge *obligation * on our children? I agree it is not microsoft's responsibility to give infrastructure, but I go a step ahead and say that this responsibility should not be even given to such dirty drug traffic agents who are spoiling the generation. think practically, it is like surrendering all your knowledge, and private information to some person whom you don't even know and nither you know their intentions (actually we all do know their intentions don't we?). as I said we can't teach immoral things to kids and microsoft products or any such proprietory brand persay is nothing but a pathway to knowledge prison.
what we give is much more valuable and that is the freedom and the way to it.
We are not giving freedom. We can only make people aware of it.
we surely are showing the way.
the problem is that is the government's educational system ready to take our knowledge and provide the proper infrastructure?
Government does not have funds even for regular schools.
Department of Science and technology provides huge funds to many organisations for creating educational projects and now a days every village gets computers in their schools which are *incapable* of running the big rubbish windows shit (in marathi vista means shit ). *smile*. or even xp for that matter. and we all know how unuserfriendly and unscientific the graphical users interfaces are. so that is a proper groundwork infact to have free software in education. secondly there are so many commertial companies who take up corporate social responsibilities and under that typical thing they do is to provide computers to schools which they adopt. I will give one example. mahendra and mahendra has adopted 25 schools for handicap and 40 usual schools in small towns. and I am very happy to inform the list that I being their adviser have got them convinced to *only * use free software and they have already started to implement it for the handicap schools in nagpur and mumbai and rurki. and they have already found it satisfactory. such things can be made to happen. the moral of the story is that it is not our responsibility to provide infrastructure, it is our responsibility to show the way to freedom and make people understand the truth. happy hacking. Krishnakant.
GNU/Linux ! No Viruses No Spyware Only Freedom.
krishnakant Mane wrote:
secondly there are so many commertial companies who take up corporate social responsibilities and under that typical thing they do is to provide computers to schools which they adopt. I will give one example. mahendra and mahendra has adopted 25 schools for handicap and 40 usual schools in small towns. and I am very happy to inform the list that I being their adviser have got them convinced to *only * use free software and they have already started to implement it for the handicap schools in nagpur and mumbai and rurki. and they have already found it satisfactory.
That is great. However I feel their decision to use Libre software may have to do more with costs than freedom. They must have saved lakhs of donor rupees on legal OSs and Office suites. (25+40) * 10 computers per school = 650 computers. 650 * Rs. 12,000 = 78 Lakhs. Just an estimate. Anyway it is a good thing.
such things can be made to happen. the moral of the story is that it is not our responsibility to provide infrastructure, it is our responsibility to show the way to freedom and make people understand the truth.
The point I was making is about Microsoft spending crores of rupees to donate computers to rural people and the opposition to this initiative. In poor countries it is a dicey situation where help is pouring in but one group does not want it to happen ( For good reasons of course ). And it is not drug money or some blood stained wealth thats pouring in. For the general public it is just a software giant doing its bit for society. In poor regions, such initiatives are difficult to oppose unless there is an alternative arrangement possible.
My choice would be that the Govt. makes it mandatory for all hardware donations to be independent of riders on software that can be installed on them. Legal experts could site some clause about not allowing MRTP in education. Last time we met, Nagarjuna had mentioned about school syllabus having to be independent of brand identities. Then let the donors (anyone) decide whether they can operate under this rule or want to back out. That will also help the public get a better understanding of the benefactors. As an organization, FSF India could prod the Govt. into making this rule. We can write a letter with all our signatures and send it to the PM and other Ministries. We could all meet at HBCSE to sign this letter.
On 23/04/2008, Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com wrote:
That is great. However I feel their decision to use Libre software may have to do more with costs than freedom. They must have saved lakhs of donor rupees on legal OSs and Office suites. (25+40) * 10 computers per school = 650 computers. 650 * Rs. 12,000 = 78 Lakhs. Just an estimate. Anyway it is a good thing.
for them it may as well be that reason but the end result is freedom for the schools. and by the way there has been enough discussion about cost and other things which I can declare officially on this list. and we must not be under the impressions that free software advisers may not charge. they do charge and pritty heavy at that. this is because our time is costly.
The point I was making is about Microsoft spending crores of rupees to donate computers to rural people and the opposition to this initiative. In poor countries it is a dicey situation where help is pouring in but one group does not want it to happen ( For good reasons of course ).
yes and we must be prowd of that *one group * because they don't want any country to go on a wrong path and invite another east india company who claimes to do good for the poor but we very well know it is actually taking disadvantage of the poor not helping them. what good will it do if any huge company puts some pieces of paper called money or some hardware junk called computers just to take away my knowledge and my personal information and in turn also take away the nations security? I agree fo the common man it is no big deal. because he is not aware of all this and *one group * wants to make them aware and distributing small handbills in news papers as suggested before was a good idea.
And it is not drug money or some blood stained wealth thats pouring in. For the general public it is just a software giant doing its bit for society. In poor regions, such initiatives are difficult to oppose unless there is an alternative arrangement possible.
of course it is like adicting people to druggs. for common public it is a software giant doing its *bit for the society*. but that is the difference between us and them. our work is to make people aware and know that it is exactly the opposit. it is us who are doing a good bit for that giant, and not the other way round. yes in poor countries alternatives are there and poor countries must also not waist their money on dirty licenses where people don't get books for their schools. better spend what ever money we have on the right IT resources.
My choice would be that the Govt. makes it mandatory for all hardware donations to be independent of riders on software that can be installed on them. Legal experts could site some clause about not allowing MRTP in education. Last time we met, Nagarjuna had mentioned about school syllabus having to be independent of brand identities. Then let the donors (anyone) decide whether they can operate under this rule or want to back out. That will also help the public get a better understanding of the benefactors. As an organization, FSF India could prod the Govt. into making this rule. We can write a letter with all our signatures and send it to the PM and other Ministries. We could all meet at HBCSE to sign this letter.
that is exactly why I said our job is not providing infrastructure. our job is to show the way to freedom and brandless education. and above ideas are the once which should be considered seriusly. happy hacking. Krishnakant.
-- Regards,
Rony.
GNU/Linux ! No Viruses No Spyware Only Freedom.
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Dinesh Shah -
jtd -
Kartik Mistry -
Kenneth Gonsalves -
krishnakant Mane -
Mehul Ved -
Nishit Dave -
Praveen A -
Rony