Ministry of Information Technology organized a meeting, called `Linux India Initiative' where more than 40 people from various depts of govt IITs, NCST, BARC, CDAC, NIC, main companies like IBM, redhat, netcore, exocore etc., and also from the state govts (secreatary level representatives.) It was rather surprising that there is so much of awareness in the Govt circles. This meeting tookplace in Delhi in the Electronics Niketan close to the Nehru Stadium on Lodhi Road.
Mr. S. Ramakrishnan (popularly known as Ramki) made the only presentation in the meeting. His presentation displayed that he did his home work very well, and the presentation was comprehensive. He listed various advantages of using OSS. He made it clear in the beginning itself that Linux actually stands for GNU/Linux, and so it should be understood as inclusive of GNU and not exclusive. Later Mr. Shaw (secretary MIT) chaired the meeting that went on from 3pm to 6.15pm. He took notes of almost all the speakers points and appeared serious. Prof. Sivakumar from IIT Mumbai, Barua of IIT Gauhati, were the prominent members from the Academia. Issues such as support, GUI, security, localization, took the attention of most speakers. Also since the Chairman explicilty asked every one to respond to GUI and security concerns.
Keyur Shroff from NCST made a brief presentation on localization work being done at NCST, and Atul Chitnis of Exocore also made very good points.
Two volumes containing several documents downloaded from the internet are circulated to the participatns. This also included some pages from our own website.
I represented the users community and FSF India. The points mentioned by me were as follows:
General Comments:
Why cost should not be the sole reason for promoting the use of Free (Swatantra) Software?
Most people argue in favor of Free Software because of the cost factor. This should not be the sole reason for promoting free software. Achieving self-reliance is often very pain-staking and difficult path. India's success stories in Space and Atomic energy are good illustrations in this regard. We don't and we should not do `cost of ownership' analysis on our path towards self-reliance. We should run for the values enshrined in our constitution, such as `self-reliance', even if they are expensive. Incidentally, though, free software is several times economical than Proprietary software.
Why the expression `Linux India Initiative' is not appropriate?
The term `Linux' refers to only one of the free kernels available, though the most popular. `BSD' does not use the Linux kernel, but is also a free OS. Another free kernel called HURD is also being developed by the GNU community.
Since most applications that run on GNU/Linux also run on several OSs, including MS Windows, it is not appropriate to use only `Linux.' We should promote the use of free software even on propreitary OS. Most users who are already using MS windows can also use most of free software, though it is desirable to use a free OS in the long run.
My suggestion is to use `Swatantra Software Initiative'. One of the main reasons why we should go for using Free Software is not merely because of the economic implications, but its use gives the users freedom, and self-reliance.
The English expression ``Free Software Initiative'' also is not appropriate because, the term `free' is ambiguous, for in most widely used contexts it refers to `free of cost/charge'.
Since India is committed to self-reliance it will be appropriate to use `Swatantra'.
There are a few blocks in the road of taking Swatantra software to various corners of ICT use, such as the following:
Using documents encoded in proprietary format, preventing free usage of data across different OS. This also encourages monopoly and facilitates lock-in.
Most IT training institutions provide training mostly emphasizing or exclusively on proprietary applications.
The syllabus in several colleges and Universities knowingly or unknowingly mentions not the neutral descriptions of what the student is supposed to learn, but names of proprietary applications. E.g., Excell in place of spreadsheets, or Ms-Word in place of word processor, Oracle in place of SQL, etc. At least in all Govt controlled institutions a policy should be made against this practice.
A policy decision/discussion should happen regarding the software that is being developed within the Govt organizations, and its possible release under GPL or similar protected forms of free software license.
The Annexure-I already contains several broad issues for discussion. Having supported the spread of Free software in the country for several years, and keeping in mind my expertise and the mandate of the institution (Homi Bhabha Centre for Science Education, Tata Institute of Fundamental Research, Mumbai) where I am working, I wish to contribute in whatever form on the following:
Setting up of Resource Centres SIG in Education sector (including schools) Introduction in curricula of engineering colleges, universities and colleges.
I do hope that some thing meaningful will come out of this Initiative. Mr. Ramki also mentioned in the notes that are curculated that setting up of foundations like FSF India.
Nagarjuna
hello all
there is one concern that i have seen in many software developers mind. it pinches them to give away the src code for several reasons.
cant there an intermediate solution ? there was a decent concept that evolved out of discussion at lunacy trip. the idea was that a product src can be given to the buyer only for their use. if they make commercials out it the parent of the src sud get some money. (though managing the levels is impossible). or some sort of policy that will prevent predators from getting away with the software.
also if the product support or the company itself is about to die then the src code sud be released so that it can be maintained by its users.
this is similar to warranty with most hardware. till u are covered under warranty you dont mess with the product, afterwards its your choice.
i know this is not completely in compliance with gnu philosophy but doesnt completely stand against it too.
hope these thoughts help in spreading the word regards Harsh R Busa __________________________ BackendGuru Technologies http://www.BackendGuru.com Tel : 91-9820693048
Since most applications that run on GNU/Linux also run on several OSs, including MS Windows, it is not appropriate to use only `Linux.' We should promote the use of free software even on propreitary OS. Most users who are already using MS windows can also use most of free software, though it is desirable to use a free OS in the long run.
________________________________________________________________________ Missed your favourite TV serial last night? Try the new, Yahoo! TV. visit http://in.tv.yahoo.com
Hi Luggers!
The issue of IPR is not very important for most of the programmers. However it is very important to companies who want to build a viable and profitable business.
The linux lunacy trip was a great eye-opener in this regard. I have been searching around for viable Free Software based business models. As per my limited understanding of the topic I can think of three ways in which the Free Software paradigm can be applied to s/w development.
1. The Free S/w philosophy should be applied completely when s/w is being developed by government agencies. Except in cases where national security interests are concerned the source for all s/w developed should be freely available. The money that the government is spending is the people's money and hence everybody has a right to benefit from it. This would lower the government's expenditure as bugs would be reported and modified faster, and people could adapt the s/w to suit their own needs.
2. The second option is to provide the source code only when the client asks for it. This is the approach which we normally associate with the Free S/w philosophy. This is fine for companies developing customised s/w for a particular client. However it doesn't suit well to companies which are into product development. How can a company ensure that the source code for the product developed after years of work is not copied by some other company. S/w hijackers can just lift snippets of code from the available sorce code and make a s/w of there own. This would eat away the market for the original company. This brings us to the third option.
3. The third option, in my opinion, suits well to product based companies. The company should be bound to release the source code of the product in the event of - Support being discontinued for the product. - The company is being bought by some other company. - The company is closing down. This option sheilds product based companies from hijackers. It also gives the option to the clients of the company to support themselves when support is no longer available.
Keep your opinions rolling...
Cheers :-)) Kapil Karekar Libre Technologies ---------------------------------------- Let us build a Free Software Economy ----------------------------------------
kapil thanks for elaborating on the concepts
--- Kapil Karekar kapil_karekar@vsnl.net wrote: > ****************************************
- LUG meet on 12 Jan. 2003 @ VJTI
Hi Luggers!
The issue of IPR is not very important for most of the programmers. However it is very important to companies who want to build a viable and profitable business.
The linux lunacy trip was a great eye-opener in this regard. I have been searching around for viable Free Software based business models. As per my limited understanding of the topic I can think of three ways in which the Free Software paradigm can be applied to s/w development.
- The Free S/w philosophy should be applied
completely when s/w is being developed by government agencies. Except in cases where national security interests are concerned the source for all s/w developed should be freely available. The money that the government is spending is the people's money and hence everybody has a right to benefit from it. This would lower the government's expenditure as bugs would be reported and modified faster, and people could adapt the s/w to suit their own needs.
- The second option is to provide the source code
only when the client asks for it. This is the approach which we normally associate with the Free S/w philosophy. This is fine for companies developing customised s/w for a particular client. However it doesn't suit well to companies which are into product development. How can a company ensure that the source code for the product developed after years of work is not copied by some other company. S/w hijackers can just lift snippets of code from the available sorce code and make a s/w of there own. This would eat away the market for the original company. This brings us to the third option.
- The third option, in my opinion, suits well to
product based companies. The company should be bound to release the source code of the product in the event of - Support being discontinued for the product. - The company is being bought by some other company. - The company is closing down. This option sheilds product based companies from hijackers. It also gives the option to the clients of the company to support themselves when support is no longer available.
Keep your opinions rolling...
Cheers :-)) Kapil Karekar Libre Technologies
Let us build a Free Software Economy
-- _______________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________ Missed your favourite TV serial last night? Try the new, Yahoo! TV. visit http://in.tv.yahoo.com
On Wed, 25 Dec 2002 13:54:31 +0530 Kapil Karekar wrote:
- The Free S/w philosophy should be applied completely when s/w
is being developed by government agencies. Except in cases where national security interests are concerned the source for all s/w developed should be freely available. The money that the
It's not necessary to distribute free software at all, and making the source code available is mandated only if the software is to be distributed. GoI can very well keep it's secret software and associated source code with itself. If GoI later plans to distribute some of it's secret software, there's no particular reason why the source code to it should be hidden. Free Software != source code available for public download. Not always.
development. How can a company ensure that the source code for the product developed after years of work is not copied by some other company. S/w hijackers can just lift snippets of code from the available sorce code and make a s/w of there own. This would eat away the market for the original company.
This can not be ensured with closed source either. Reverse engineering is one way people breach closed source too. The motive to hijack source code may be strong for small-time developers developing small-time applications. For large corporations, fear of legal action is a large enough deterrent.
Secondly, for a company to make a complex piece of software based on an already complex piece of software (say a web-server based on code hijacked from the Apache Project) and to make enough improvements to it make it's proprietary product more desirable, the company would have to make a lot many changes to the code.
In the process the code would become sufficiently different from the original codebase and the company won't have anyone to turn to for support since benefits/changes applicable to free project code no longer apply to the hijacked codebase. Thus the company would have to train it's own coders to understand the hijacked codebase. AFA my personal experience goes, it is easier to code from scratch than understand an existing piece of code inside-out for complex systems.
Also, in the 18 year long history of GNU and FSF's existence not a single case of someone creating a proprietary project that trumped a Free Software project whose code it hijacked has come to the fore. Well, the TCP/IP stack in MS Windows is another story, which is why it is highly advisable to go for "Protective Freedom" through licenses like GPL.
On Wednesday 25 December 2002 01:54 pm, Kapil Karekar wrote:
- LUG meet on 12 Jan. 2003 @ VJTI
Hi Luggers!
- The third option, in my opinion, suits well to product based
companies. The company should be bound to release the source code of the product in the event of - Support being discontinued for the product. - The company is being bought by some other company. - The company is closing down. This option sheilds product based companies from hijackers. It also gives the option to the clients of the company to support themselves when support is no longer available.
How about an organization who check the source code and maintains a copy of the source code with itself. It will be issuing certificates to the softwares that companies develop. Every company who wants to sell their software should have a certificate from this organization. For example a government organization called Software Checker (SC) will be responsible to test source code of every major softwares like operating system , databases, etc. A company who likes to gain more clients will try to get such certificates from SC(here the SC organization can charge them for it). The source of idea is cryptography - when two people dont trust each other they need to trust a third party. Here the 3rd party is SC. So the source code does not get leaked, while the client is happy that the source code is secure to use and does not have any back door trojans, etc. If for cryptography we can trust Verisign (Microsoft company) then we can always trust someone for source code.
This ofcourse is easier said than done.
Keep your opinions rolling...
Cheers :-)) Kapil Karekar Libre Technologies
Let us build a Free Software Economy
On Wed, 25 Dec 2002 02:50:25 +0530 Amish Munshi wrote:
For example a government organization called Software Checker (SC) will be responsible to test source code of every major softwares like operating system , databases, etc. A company who likes to gain more clients will try to get such certificates from SC(here the SC organization can charge them for it).
Greedy me! I smell big time opportunity to corrupt >:-)
Hi Amish,
it is virtually impossible to implement such a fourm across the globe or even locally.
regards harsh
--- Amish Munshi amish_munshi@sify.com wrote: >
How about an organization who check the source code and maintains a copy of the source code with itself. It will be issuing certificates to the softwares that companies develop. Every company who wants to sell their software should have a certificate from this organization. For example a government organization called Software Checker (SC) will be responsible to test source code of every major softwares like operating system , databases, etc. A company who likes to gain more clients will try to get such certificates from SC(here the SC organization can charge them for it). The source of idea is cryptography - when two people dont trust each other they need to trust a third party. Here the 3rd party is SC. So the source code does not get leaked, while the client is happy that the source code is secure to use and does not have any back door trojans, etc. If for cryptography we can trust Verisign (Microsoft company) then we can always trust someone for source code.
This ofcourse is easier said than done.
________________________________________________________________________ Missed your favourite TV serial last night? Try the new, Yahoo! TV. visit http://in.tv.yahoo.com
On Wednesday 25 December 2002 04:56 pm, Harsh Busa wrote:
- LUG meet on 12 Jan. 2003 @ VJTI
Hi Amish,
it is virtually impossible to implement such a fourm across the globe or even locally.
Yes, definately, thats the reason I said it is easier said than done, corruption from individuals like "Tahir Hashmi" is a completely different issue (Just a joke - I hope this does not start a completely different thread). But taking it a little seriously, may be when AI is here we can have a computer (non-humans basically) do the checking of code. Uptil then this solution exist on theory atleast.
regards harsh
--- Amish Munshi amish_munshi@sify.com wrote: >
How about an organization who check the source code and maintains a copy of the source code with itself. It will be issuing certificates to the softwares that companies develop. Every company who wants to sell their software should have a certificate from this organization. For example a government organization called Software Checker (SC) will be responsible to test source code of every major softwares like operating system , databases, etc. A company who likes to gain more clients will try to get such certificates from SC(here the SC organization can charge them for it). The source of idea is cryptography - when two people dont trust each other they need to trust a third party. Here the 3rd party is SC. So the source code does not get leaked, while the client is happy that the source code is secure to use and does not have any back door trojans, etc. If for cryptography we can trust Verisign (Microsoft company) then we can always trust someone for source code.
This ofcourse is easier said than done.
Missed your favourite TV serial last night? Try the new, Yahoo! TV. visit http://in.tv.yahoo.com
Harsh Busa writes:
also if the product support or the company itself is about to die then the src code sud be released so that it can be maintained by its users.
We could have a software escrow service. The source is kept with a third party and in case the company that wrote the s/w dies, The third party will give the source to the customer.
There was an intersting discussion on this on slashdot about 1 -1.5 months ago. Try searching on slashdot for it. It is very insightful and interesting. Several solutions have also been mentioned to the problem you have stated.
**************** Vinayak Hegde APGDST Student NCST-JUHU ****************
interesting idea but i m not very convienced abt how convining it is.
Regards Harsh R Busa _________________________________ BackendGuru Technologies http://www.BackendGuru.com info@BackendGuru.com Tel : 098206-93048 / 91-22-28985205
We could have a software escrow service. The source is kept with a third party and in case the company that wrote the s/w dies, The third party will give the source to the customer.
There was an intersting discussion on this on slashdot about 1 -1.5 months ago. Try searching on slashdot for it. It is very insightful and interesting. Several solutions have also been mentioned to the problem you have stated.
Vinayak Hegde APGDST Student NCST-JUHU
Hello luggers, good-afternoon.
I think harsh...kapil....amish all of you have raised some very important issues.
We should be discussing the same on the next Gnu-linux lunacy trip....wat say...???..:)
Very important issues, and sustainable business models which can be showcased to all is an effort that all of us should contribute on.
Bye for now.
Trevor
On Wed, 2002-12-25 at 12:48, Harsh Busa wrote:
- LUG meet on 12 Jan. 2003 @ VJTI
hello all
there is one concern that i have seen in many software developers mind. it pinches them to give away the src code for several reasons.
cant there an intermediate solution ? there was a decent concept that evolved out of discussion at lunacy trip. the idea was that a product src can be given to the buyer only for their use. if they make commercials out it the parent of the src sud get some money. (though managing the levels is impossible). or some sort of policy that will prevent predators from getting away with the software.
also if the product support or the company itself is about to die then the src code sud be released so that it can be maintained by its users.
this is similar to warranty with most hardware. till u are covered under warranty you dont mess with the product, afterwards its your choice.
i know this is not completely in compliance with gnu philosophy but doesnt completely stand against it too.
hope these thoughts help in spreading the word regards Harsh R Busa __________________________ BackendGuru Technologies http://www.BackendGuru.com Tel : 91-9820693048
Since most applications that run on GNU/Linux also run on several OSs, including MS Windows, it is not appropriate to use only `Linux.' We should promote the use of free software even on propreitary OS. Most users who are already using MS windows can also use most of free software, though it is desirable to use a free OS in the long run.
Missed your favourite TV serial last night? Try the new, Yahoo! TV. visit http://in.tv.yahoo.com
-- _______________________________________________
-- "Nagarjuna G." nagarjun@hbcse.tifr.res.in wrote: <abt the govt meeting on GNU software>
I think this is a great step in the right direction.I learnt something really valuable from my recent trip to hong kong...the penetration levels of computers there are so high purely because all software is localized. I was surprised to find that ALL computer books are in the local language!! Rather than waiting for and depending on a commercial organisation to give us localized software, our govt. should take the initiative and start the process using GNU software. Our English-speaking populace is considered a strength in some areas, but if we are to take the advantages of technology to the masses, the ONLY way is by helping them adopt it in the easiest possible way.
great work Nagarjuna..we couldnt have had a better ambassador at such a forum.
regds, kishor
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On Wed, 25 Dec 2002, Nagarjuna G. wrote:
Ministry of Information Technology organized a meeting, called `Linux India Initiative' where more than 40 people from various depts of govt IITs, NCST, BARC, CDAC, NIC, main companies like IBM, redhat, netcore, exocore etc., and also from the state govts (secreatary level representatives.) It was rather surprising that there is so much of awareness in the Govt circles. This meeting tookplace in Delhi in the Electronics Niketan close to the Nehru Stadium on Lodhi Road.
<snip>
ah, finally "bureaucratization" of Linux too. Welcome to India. guys pls dont get offended but come on lets have a pragmatic view of the situation. While boardroom discussions are great have we given a thought to:
1. The local cyber-cafe wallah (who probably took a loan) and is more concerned in making money than learning a new OS
2. The DTP shop-wallah who has Photoshop,CorelDraw,I-leap,Pagemaker.... at his disposal, who is more concerned in getting the job done rather than fiddling with GIMP,postscript ...
3. The Photo-studio guy who just bought an 15,000 worth printer with the driver CD's
4. The engg. (CS) student who took a paid seat, invested more than 2 lakhs and (maybe rightfully) is aspiring to make big bucks by writing software for Microsoft.
I can go on and on .... Come on who are we kidding? Do these ppl really care (and why should they?) if theres Linux or GNU/Linux or whatever and what is the right (read purists) way of saying it?
The shopowners and home users already use free (read pirated) software. There are raids on the shops for storing pirated movies/porno movies. Never heard of a raid for using illegal software. Just take a walk outside VT station You'll get a Win XP cd for 100 bucks flat. (In fact one of my friends who is a real good bargainer got it for 80 bucks ;) Kinda cheap for a Microsoft OS right ?
These discussions IMHO are just intellectual exercises and nothing more. People who know/are interested in Linux are already using it. While the step is very welcome it would be really good to see the lowest denominator using Linux apart from scientists,sarkari babus,geeks ...
Nikhil
Nikhil Joshi writes:
ah, finally "bureaucratization" of Linux too. Welcome to India. guys pls dont get offended but come on lets have a pragmatic view of the situation. While boardroom discussions are great have we given a thought to:
- The local cyber-cafe wallah (who probably took a loan) and is more concerned in making money than learning a new OS
That he can. My friend runs a cybercafe with diskless systems and squid as proxy. The diskless systems were brought for dirt cheap throwaway price. He finds it easy to manage the network bcos he uses linux. Can Windows offer more value for money.
- The DTP shop-wallah who has Photoshop,CorelDraw,I-leap,Pagemaker....
at his disposal, who is more concerned in getting the job done rather than fiddling with GIMP,postscript ...
Well you need to fiddle with photoshop and cousins to learn them as well. And they get the job done well and quick. GIMP even has script-fu to get the job quickly. If u are not satisfied with what you get u can write your filters. Latex is really good when it comes to document foramtting so is postscript.
- The Photo-studio guy who just bought an 15,000 worth printer with the driver CD's
The printer can work and many printers do work on linux.
- The engg. (CS) student who took a paid seat, invested more than 2 lakhs and (maybe rightfully) is aspiring to make big bucks by writing software for Microsoft.
You can make big bucks as well as gain fame by writing good free software. If you work for the company, the company takes the credit for your work. Here in most cases the programmer/designer/architect gets the credit and fame for his work. Whats wrong in programming with Linux? In fact,You get a better programing environment which is more standard compliant and flexible than windows. Not to mention the hundreds of excellent tools and and the amazing choice of programming languages.
I can go on and on ....
So can I.
Come on who are we kidding?
We are kidding no one. Linux no longer is just a hacker's OS. All of have to accept this. Welcome to the Real World.
Do these ppl really care (and why should they?) if theres Linux or GNU/Linux or whatever and what is the right (read purists) way of saying it?
The commoner shouldn't. He should not bother about whats going under the hood. If he ahs to then we have not done our work well.
The shopowners and home users already use free (read pirated) software.
There's a difference between pirated and free software. In free software the programmer chooses to make it free. In pirated software, the user chooses not to pay for it :) and also using pirated software is unlawful.
There are raids on the shops for storing pirated movies/porno movies. Never heard of a raid for using illegal software.
Read the papers regularly dude. There are raids on s/w piracy vendors. Just ask the vendors on Lamington Road.
Just take a walk outside VT station You'll get a Win XP cd for 100 bucks flat. (In fact one of my friends who is a real good bargainer got it for 80 bucks ;) Kinda cheap for a Microsoft OS right ?
M$'s crappy software is worth just that. On second thoughts maybe less.
These discussions IMHO are just intellectual exercises and nothing more. People who know/are interested in Linux are already using it.
What about those who don't know?? IMHO these discussions are not just intellectual exercises.
While the step is very welcome it would be really good to see the lowest denominator using Linux apart from scientists,sarkari babus,geeks ...
Thats why we need the FS/OSS movement.
**************** Vinayak Hegde APGDST Student NCST-JUHU ****************
On Thursday 26 December 2002 01:39 am, vinayak_hegde@softhome.net wrote:
- LUG meet on 12 Jan. 2003 @ VJTI
Nikhil Joshi writes:
ah, finally "bureaucratization" of Linux too. Welcome to India. The shopowners and home users already use free (read pirated) software.
Can you find me a person who writes a CD without incluence. The CDs on VT are dirt cheap and are no better than dirt either. I want to write some pirated software on some CDs try getting one person to write it for you, trust me, lately it is very difficult, the only solution is buy a CD-writter ourself of get the CD written from our friend.
On Wed, 25 Dec 2002, Amish Munshi wrote:
Can you find me a person who writes a CD without incluence. The
^^^^^^^^^^ ???
CDs on VT are dirt cheap and are no better than dirt either. I want to write some pirated software on some CDs try getting one person to write it for you, trust me, lately it is very difficult, the only solution is buy a CD-writter ourself of get the CD written from our friend.
sometimes yes the cd's are bad but if u are a regular customer they'll replace it for you also if you want to write a pirated CD, check out a local cyber cafe more often than not they'll do it.
Nikhil
On Wed, 25 Dec 2002, vinayak_hegde@softhome.net wrote:
- The local cyber-cafe wallah (who probably took a loan) and is more concerned in making money than learning a new OS
That he can. My friend runs a cybercafe with diskless systems and squid as proxy. The diskless systems were brought for dirt cheap throwaway price. He finds it easy to manage the network bcos he uses linux. Can Windows offer more value for money.
Learning Curve, piracy, Windows 2K/XP
- The DTP shop-wallah who has
Photoshop,CorelDraw,I-leap,Pagemaker....
Well you need to fiddle with photoshop and cousins to learn them as well. And they get the job done well and quick. GIMP even has script-fu to get the job quickly. If u are not satisfied with what you get u can write your filters. Latex is really good when it comes to document foramtting so is postscript.
Learning Curve, not many professionals knowing GIMP, CMYK prob with GIMP
- The Photo-studio guy who just bought an 15,000 worth printer with the driver CD's
The printer can work and many printers do work on linux.
^^^^ i wish that were all
- The engg. (CS) student who took a paid seat, invested more than 2
You can make big bucks as well as gain fame by writing good free software.
Not comparable with the biggies I feel. Even on the Usenet ppl confess that they earn bread and butter w/ biggies nd Linux is their hobby. No free s/w supporting company can compete with the philanthrophy of Bill Gates. It seems Microsoft is making money for good afterall :)
M$'s crappy software is worth just that. On second thoughts maybe less.
please, we need not be bigots
Nikhil
-
Amish Munshi -
Harsh Busa -
Harsh R Busa -
Kapil Karekar -
kishor bhagwat -
Nagarjuna G. -
Nikhil Joshi -
Tahir Hashmi -
Trevor Warren -
vinayak_hegde＠softhome.net