On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 16:00:01 Roshan wrote:
Those GLUGers who attended it from CDAC-Mumbai, are
you active on the list? Drop in a line to say hi ;)
Firstly a big HI !!!! (as demanded) :) Yeah! we are very much active. Active in reading all the mails :) N since we are newbies its too early for us to respond or comment on any of the mails... till then we are happy with our role of listener......
i guess we guys will catch up soon.... :) and join in the discussions....
Sobi :)
--- Sobi pillai wrote:
Firstly a big HI !!!! (as demanded) :)
hehe :)
Yeah! we are very much active. Active in reading all the mails :) N since we are newbies its too early for us to respond or comment on any of the mails... till then we are happy with our role of listener......
Great! Ummm... Newbies... (I'm also one among you :) )
i guess we guys will catch up soon.... :) and join in the discussions....
Sure! Post your thoughts or write up an HOW-TO specific to a local task such as setting up a dial-up connection using a distro etc. Share useful links, you find interesting!
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On Friday 22 December 2006 11:40, Roshan wrote:
Sure! Post your thoughts or write up an HOW-TO specific to a local task such as setting up a dial-up connection using a distro etc.
People still use that?. ADSL is a lot faster and cheaper.
--- jtd wrote:
People still use that?. ADSL is a lot faster and cheaper.
A few of my friends do. I have told them to switch to MTNL Triband (ADSL). I had to find drivers for my internal modem, configure it in RH9 and used it till I got Triband.
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On Friday 22 December 2006 11:54, jtd wrote:
People still use that?. ADSL is a lot faster and cheaper.
dialup is still around when required. Saved my a$$ manytimes when my cable internet ( curse you Reliance powersurfer ) was not working...
On 22-Dec-06, at 5:42 PM, Dinesh Joshi wrote:
People still use that?. ADSL is a lot faster and cheaper.
dialup is still around when required. Saved my a$$ manytimes when my cable internet ( curse you Reliance powersurfer ) was not working...
bluetooth gprs is my new saviour - gave a three hour lecture yesterday. As usual internet was not working, but my airtel gprs - a trifle slow, lasted the full three hours
People still use that?. ADSL is a lot faster and cheaper.
dialup is still around when required. Saved my a$$ manytimes when my cable internet ( curse you Reliance powersurfer ) was not working...
bluetooth gprs is my new saviour - gave a three hour lecture yesterday. As usual internet was not working, but my airtel gprs - a trifle slow, lasted the full three hours
digressed from the topic again !
HRB
Sometime on Dec 22, Harsh Busa assembled some asciibets to say:
digressed from the topic again !
and why is this a problem? I haven't seen any contribution from you on any topic in a very long time, so it can't possibly be diluting your experience. In fact, the only thing you've done so far is stated the obvious.
So, if you see something wrong happening on list, say what it is _and_ say how to fix it. If others agree with you, you'll have something going. If others are curious about your reasons for doing that, then too you have something going.
On Sun, Dec 24, 2006 at 12:57:34AM +0530, Philip Tellis wrote:
So, if you see something wrong happening on list, say what it is _and_ say how to fix it. If others agree with you, you'll have something going. If others are curious about your reasons for doing that, then too you have something going.
I'll say something. I've seen many, many topics on this list, and the majority of topics seem to be:
ISPs, and how to set them up ("it works in Windows but not in Linux")
Discussion of "GNU/Linux" versus "Linux", or Open Source versus Free Software
Politics (okay, IT politics)
Flames
News articles peripherally connected to Linux
Job offers, and flames over job offers
More flames.
Why am I still here?
PS: ObDogs: List has gone to dogs.
I'll say something. I've seen many, many topics on this list, and the majority of topics seem to be:
ISPs, and how to set them up ("it works in Windows but not in Linux")
Discussion of "GNU/Linux" versus "Linux", or Open Source versus Free Software
Politics (okay, IT politics)
Flames
News articles peripherally connected to Linux
Job offers, and flames over job offers
More flames.
Why am I still here?
Only you can answer that question.
PS: ObDogs: List has gone to dogs.
Hmm... if you want a nice fluffy clouds and white bunnies roaming around your mailbox, you probably ought to consider a mailing list in an alternate universe.
Life's about problems and conflict. The challenge for a community is to discuss solutions and overcome that emerge better, with more perspectives. Its democracy at its best. And ilug-bom is one of THE places to be a part of that. Three cheers for ilug-bom (hip hip hooray)^3 !!!
Regards,
- vihan
--- Vihan Pandey wrote:
Life's about problems and conflict. The challenge for a community is to discuss solutions and overcome that emerge better, with more perspectives. Its democracy at its best. And ilug-bom is one of THE places to be a part of that. Three cheers for ilug-bom (hip hip hooray)^3 !!!
I am not a fundamentalist. People would call GNU/Linux as "Linux" or people would say, 'calling "Linux", GNU/Linux is wrong.'
Possibly, the rants on the list has caused OP to post his thoughts about the list.
From what I can interpret, Free Software has indirect
(or may be direct) relations in Free Knowledege and Free Society. So, a FSF list talking about all rant this list has, probably is fine, but for a GLUG list, it probably, isn't correct. Duplication of information is waste of time and resources, and to avoid such, proper redirection is required.
Disclaimer: No intentions of flames /flame war / criticizing anyone / any mailing list.
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Sometime on Dec 24, Vihan Pandey assembled some asciibets to say:
PS: ObDogs: List has gone to dogs.
Hmm... if you want a nice fluffy clouds and white bunnies roaming around your mailbox, you probably ought to consider a mailing list in an alternate
Naah! You missed the context :) Search the archives if you want to know what he meant.
On Sunday 24 December 2006 01:24, Satya wrote:
I'll say something. I've seen many, many topics on this list, and the majority of topics seem to be:
Actually there is very little that does not work as intended. The ones that dont work are resolved by google. Or a mal to the developers. The only issues are doze-linux interoperability, which is a totally political issue. This is quite unlike the past (circa 2000).
So either u start something useful or participate in the entertainment or join something politically correct like AIDS prevention society or Mumbai Marathon society or kill the dos society. U will also meet page three brick heads if u attend their meets.
On 12/23/06, Philip Tellis philip.tellis@gmx.net wrote:
Sometime on Dec 22, Harsh Busa assembled some asciibets to say:
digressed from the topic again !
and why is this a problem? I haven't seen any contribution from you on any topic in a very long time, so it can't possibly be diluting your experience. In fact, the only thing you've done so far is stated the obvious.
right there is no problem . i have not been contributing. there are stale questions running around the list. isp's, mbd, display cards, there are more of same old policy and foss philosophy questions being raised. i see several veterans of the lug completely silent.
a commercial mail that gets criticized and should end in < 10 goes upto 80+. most discussion lands up to driver cribs and if one can play mp3s or not.
it is also imp to know where do these discussions ultimately lead to . they go completely off the track and fizzle out !
crib about accepting docs in resume for opensrc jobs does not really lead to any conclusion. neitther does the novell controversy lead to any solutions. neither does why ppl dont contribute to oss thread. and many other threads in the past.
this lug is acc to me pretty much reduced to a mailing list. lug meets have dwindled ( thanks to recent meet there is some hope though ) . no knowledge / information is getting channelized into reusable form. do we have answers to that. probably yes. do we want to do something towards it is something probably the list has to answer .
HRB
On Sunday 24 December 2006 04:28, Harsh Busa wrote:
stale questions running around the list. isp's, mbd, display cards,
Explain "stale questions".
upto 80+. most discussion lands up to driver cribs and if one can play mp3s or not.
What is wrong with someone asking about playing mp3s?
Sometime Today, Dinesh Joshi assembled some asciibets to say:
On Sunday 24 December 2006 04:28, Harsh Busa wrote:
stale questions running around the list. isp's, mbd, display cards,
Explain "stale questions".
I think he's alluding to questions that have already been answered several times before. It just shows that the person asking the question did not bother to do any research before asking. This is a bad habit, and a bad trend for the lug, because it means that there are people who expect others to do their work for them.
Personally, I don't like people who believe that they are doing me a favour by using linux, and think that it is now my duty to solve all their problems. They can go back to using windows for all I care, it's no loss for me.
upto 80+. most discussion lands up to driver cribs and if one can play mp3s or not.
What is wrong with someone asking about playing mp3s?
It's already been asked and answered before. There is no need to ask again. What you should be doing is searching the net, searching the archives, coming up with a solution, and then write up the solution into a complete howto (if one does not already exist) and publish that.
The last step, IMO, is the most important, and at least this list isn't completely lacking in that area.
On Sunday 24 December 2006 12:40, Philip Tellis wrote:
I think he's alluding to questions that have already been answered several times before. It just shows that the person asking the question did not bother to do any research before asking. This is a bad habit, and a bad trend for the lug, because it means that there are people who expect others to do their work for them.
Personally, I don't like people who believe that they are doing me a favour by using linux, and think that it is now my duty to solve all their problems. They can go back to using windows for all I care, it's no loss for me.
Well this "problem" is not just faced by *this* LUG. Any discussion forum faces such "lazy" newbies. They either get RTFM or ignored. So this really isn't worth discussing.
It's already been asked and answered before. There is no need to ask again. What you should be doing is searching the net, searching the archives, coming up with a solution, and then write up the solution into a complete howto (if one does not already exist) and publish that.
The last step, IMO, is the most important, and at least this list isn't completely lacking in that area.
So I guess the mp3s question was an example of "stale questions" :P
On 12/24/06, Dinesh Joshi dinesh.a.joshi@gmail.com wrote:
Well this "problem" is not just faced by *this* LUG. Any discussion forum faces such "lazy" newbies. They either get RTFM or ignored. So this really isn't worth discussing.
For one, a normal user is "lazy". More often than not, many of these users are not adept at searching the internet for resources. It's not even like everyone has a friend who is a Linux savvy person. With windows these users generally have a friend/relative/colleague who is informed enough to help them out.
Also in the past, LUGs have come across as a sort of customer service for GNU/Linux so that it gets more acceptance/coverage. It's perception developed over the years than anything else; just like "hackers break into systems".
I don't remember the welcome email but did it have a link to the usage guidelines or were the guidelines part of the email? If it's a link then most users will never take the trouble of clicking on the link. Of course, too much text in the email also means that the user merely skims through. We probably need a useful welcome email (and the monthly reminder mail) that reminds users that they can use Google or the ILUG search engine to get answers to their troubles first.
Regards,
Hi, Siddhesh, not meaning to be rude but please see how my mail client quotes you...
On Sunday 24 December 2006 16:40, Siddhesh Poyarekar wrote:
And now behold how you quote me...
On 12/24/06, Dinesh Joshi dinesh.a.joshi@XXXXXXXX wrote:
That XXXX.. had my domain in there... Buddy I dont know if you want spam bots to flourish or you just want them to target little-old-me.. You better reconfigure your mail client!
For those who are ready with their flame blowers...
[preemptive flame]
Feeling itchy to tell me to keep this offlist? STOP. This is a problem that many users are facing. It's not just me. What is being quoted is onlist so my reply shall come onlist so all 700-800 odd users of the mailing list know HOW TO CONFIGURE THEIR MAIL CLIENT TO KEEP THE SPAM BOTS FROM FEEDING ON THE ARCHIVES. Unless its personal, I wont keep it offlist.
[/preemptive flame]
For one, a normal user is "lazy". More often than not, many of these users are not adept at searching the internet for resources. It's not even like everyone has a friend who is a Linux savvy person. With windows these users generally have a friend/relative/colleague who is informed enough to help them out.
all I can say is to each his own. Deal with the newbie mails however you wish others can do the same...
Sometime on Sunday 24 December 2006 21:53, Dinesh Joshi said:
Feeling itchy to tell me to keep this offlist? STOP. This is a problem that many users are facing. It's not just me. What is being quoted is onlist so my reply shall come onlist so all 700-800 odd users of the mailing list know HOW TO CONFIGURE THEIR MAIL CLIENT TO KEEP THE SPAM BOTS FROM FEEDING ON THE ARCHIVES. Unless its personal, I wont keep it offlist.
I dont think so. A polite reply off the list does the trick manytimes.
And besides, if you are part of a public mailing list to which you reply quite often, spam-bots will get your email addressess from N number of different sources which are beyond your control, and not just list archives alone. So stop being hysterical and use a good spamkilling software.
spamassassin is pretty good imho. (g,d&r) :-)
Anurag
On Monday 25 December 2006 03:11, Anurag wrote:
I dont think so. A polite reply off the list does the trick manytimes.
And besides, if you are part of a public mailing list to which you reply quite often, spam-bots will get your email addressess from N number of different sources which are beyond your control, and not just list archives alone. So stop being hysterical and use a good spamkilling software.
spamassassin is pretty good imho. (g,d&r) :-)
You didnt get the point. List archives are just one place from which the spam bot may get people's email address...
On Monday 25 December 2006 18:37, Dinesh Joshi wrote:
On Monday 25 December 2006 03:11, Anurag wrote:
I dont think so. A polite reply off the list does the trick manytimes.
And besides, if you are part of a public mailing list to which you reply quite often, spam-bots will get your email addressess from N number of different sources which are beyond your control, and not just list archives alone. So stop being hysterical and use a good spamkilling software.
spamassassin is pretty good imho. (g,d&r) :-)
You didnt get the point. List archives are just one place from which the spam bot may get people's email address...
Use a separate email address only for mailing lists if you're so paranoid. Otherwise, just unsubscribe. *shrugs*
On Monday 25 December 2006 19:42, Mrugesh Karnik wrote:
Use a separate email address only for mailing lists if you're so paranoid.
Nah...I'm not paranoid. I just believe in having 'civil sense' ( whatever its net equivalent is called though ).
Otherwise, just unsubscribe. *shrugs*
Hmmm...
Sometime on Monday 25 December 2006 18:37, Dinesh Joshi said:
You didnt get the point. List archives are just one place from which the spam bot may get people's email address...
A spambot herder can subscribe to the mailing list as well right? Its not all that difficult. Besides, our list is also archived at mail-archive.com, gmane, opensubscriber etc. etc. Its not all that difficult to get hold of your email address.
Anurag
--- Harsh Busa harsh.busa@gmail.com wrote:
this lug is acc to me pretty much reduced to a mailing list. lug meets have dwindled ( thanks to recent meet there is some hope though ).
According to me, GLUG meets have probably reduced due to lack of time for Mumbaikars. (GLUG-BOM @ Foss.in/2006, pointed out this)
Also, due to busy schedules of people, who can speak @ GLUG-meets, there aren't many speakers for GLUG meet. I remember, this being one of the reasons, posted to the list some time back (few months).
no knowledge / information is getting channelized into reusable form. do we have answers to that. probably yes. do we want to do something towards it is something probably the list has to answer.
On a lighter side, you can look at this in two ways. 1. Ignore those emails, which you think lead nowhere, is discussing about GNU/Linux versus Linux etc. and assume, you never saw such emails drop in your inbox ( or filter folder).
2. Only read and reply to emails pertaining to questions for help, information about a particular application troubleshooting, etc
Ofcourse, it is just a suggestion. :)
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Sometime Today, Roshan assembled some asciibets to say:
Also, due to busy schedules of people, who can speak @ GLUG-meets, there aren't many speakers for GLUG meet.
I wasn't aware that one needed special qualifications to speak at a glug meet. The ability to communicate should be sufficient.
--- Philip Tellis wrote:
I wasn't aware that one needed special qualifications to speak at a glug meet. The ability to communicate should be sufficient.
Yes, I agree. However, The point I was trying to emphasize is, those who have the knowledge of "What, How and Why?" of things in the FOSS world are busy.
Someone with expertise in writing Device Drivers for GNU/Linux distributions, could begin a session and create a seires for a few GLUG-meets.
Probably, we could have a BarCamp approach to every GLUG Meet. Those who attend have something to commuicate about. :)
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Sometime on Dec 24, Roshan assembled some asciibets to say:
Yes, I agree. However, The point I was trying to emphasize is, those who have the knowledge of "What, How and Why?" of things in the FOSS world are busy.
So screw these people. Everyone has something to say, let everyone else talk.
Someone with expertise in writing Device Drivers for GNU/Linux distributions, could begin a session and create a seires for a few GLUG-meets.
Why do you want experts. If everyone were to wait for the experts to start, nothing would be started. It's time for the newbies to make their mark and talk outside the shadow of so called experts. There's no excuse left.
Sometime on Sunday 24 December 2006 11:48, Roshan said:
On a lighter side, you can look at this in two ways.
- Ignore those emails, which you think lead nowhere,
is discussing about GNU/Linux versus Linux etc. and assume, you never saw such emails drop in your inbox ( or filter folder).
That doesnt change the fact that there are several useless discussions going on the mailing list. People have even started calling this list as ``General Knowledge'' mailing list where you ask any question and it will end up with 80 replies.
Anurag
On 24-Dec-06, at 4:28 AM, Harsh Busa wrote:
this lug is acc to me pretty much reduced to a mailing list. lug meets have dwindled ( thanks to recent meet there is some hope though ) . no knowledge / information is getting channelized into reusable form. do we have answers to that. probably yes. do we want to do something towards it is something probably the list has to answer .
this is a problem faced by all lugs in the country. Installation issues are now trivial. A lug that sticks to installation issues is going nowhere. No doubt there are newbies with questions, but with easy internet access, the dont really *need* the lug lists. It is time to focus on higher things. Or the lugs will die out - as they have no function. I personally feel it is time to focus on software, programming, applications, localisation rather than installation related issues. And in depth workshops, projects, training camps, student mentoring - there are moves in this direction in Delhi and Chennai. Which is keeping these lugs alive physcially - not merely as mailing lists. And these two seem to be the only lugs that are growing. Because of this trend? Or the weather?
-
Anurag -
Dinesh Joshi -
Harsh Busa -
jtd -
Kenneth Gonsalves -
Mrugesh Karnik -
Philip Tellis -
Roshan -
Satya -
Siddhesh Poyarekar -
Sobi pillai -
Vihan Pandey