On 5/23/07, jtd wrote,
Did you know that Novell signed a crooked deal with M$ to sue Linux users who had not paid Novell to use linux ?. Oh u did not. How could you with your head buried in the sand.
Ofcourse. I know it very well.
My head is always up and ready to face any real storm.. rather created by FUDs from various sources.
Did you know that Jeremy Allison resigned from Novell in protest against that stupid deal. And more recently Robert Love? Aha you did not. Your head was deeper in the sand.
Yes. He got good job at Google. My head is still up.
Novel is seen as a company without scruples. And such companies are unable to sustain themselves in the long run. Using FOSS as the foundation to build your business is paticularly tricky becaus there is very little to compare with (or follow). But what is certain is that once you sully your reputation in the community it's curtains for you.
I agree that 'stupid deal' was really wrong and against whole FOSS community, but bashing and ignoring contribution is keeping head deep deep deeper in sand with bunch of water.
All the best to those who think that working for Novell is a wonderful career opportunity.
Nope. I am not thinking that way :)
On Wednesday 23 May 2007 12:13, Kartik Mistry wrote:
On 5/23/07, jtd wrote,
Did you know that Novell signed a crooked deal with M$ to sue Linux users who had not paid Novell to use linux ?. Oh u did not. How could you with your head buried in the sand.
Ofcourse. I know it very well.
My head is always up and ready to face any real storm.. rather created by FUDs from various sources.
My reply was precisely because there wasnt any fud at all in DJ's mail. It's Novell which is trying to employ - not the individual contributors. Nor did DJ's mail say anything negative about any individual contribution. All the FUD is from Novell with all sorts of ridiculous statements and clarifications from the friend of a friend of the granny of the employee in the pantry about how wonderful this deal was for the whole universe. But not one single statement about redistribution of the distro on the website or what patents exactly were being violated. For those who dont know if Novell believes that there are patent violations (or as the pantry guys friends said that Novell had to get hold of M$office specs to ensure interoperability ) and hence had to sign a deal, you as an employ will be severely curtailed from doing work in the same areas that the agreement covers. So it's going to be a major millstone around your neck. Far from being a nice place to start, you would actually be shackling yourself.
So goodbye to innocence and warm fuzzy feelings for all the great contributions from Novell.
jtd wrote:
My reply was precisely because there wasnt any fud at all in DJ's mail. It's Novell which is trying to employ - not the individual contributors. Nor did DJ's mail say anything negative about any individual contribution.
True. Recently I read news about M$ going full guns against OO.o, Linux and other libre software for patents violation. It has listed violations by each package.
http://news.findlaw.com/ap/o/51/05-15-2007/cd020028d918d6f3.html
Look at this statement ""It's one of the few operating systems that represents a viable threat that Microsoft has a great deal of difficulty containing," Gillen said, because the developers share their code.".
Who has stolen M$'s code?
Did you know that Jeremy Allison resigned from Novell in protest against that stupid deal. And more recently Robert Love? Aha you did not. Your head was deeper in the sand.
Yes. He got good job at Google. My head is still up.
To set the record straight Jeremy Allison DID leave Novell because of the M$-Novell deal and not because of a better job opportunity :
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061221081000710
This IS an important point and MUST be mentioned.
I agree that 'stupid deal' was really wrong and against whole FOSS
community,
i'm glad you do.
but bashing and ignoring contribution is keeping head deep
deep deeper in sand with bunch of water.
When a company which has done good all this time suddenly changes its policy to the very opposite - what message does it give the people? Either that they are sick of doing that good, or they can't afford to(unlikely in this case), or they just don't care anymore. Whatever the reason - it sets the tone - the company does not give a shit.
In that kind of a situation praising the company for past good is not really the best thing. Simply put - doing that justifies their actions - they could very well claim - we did our bit, now no more so quit whining.
Companies HAVE to realize that FOSS is NOT a one night stand, its a life long commitment :-)
Regards,
- vihan
To set the record straight Jeremy Allison DID leave Novell because of the M$-Novell deal and not because of a better job opportunity :
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061221081000710
This IS an important point and MUST be mentioned.
the same goes for Robert Love as well.
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7924011302.html
Sorry, i forgot to mention that.
Regards,
- vihan
Vihan Pandey wrote:
To set the record straight Jeremy Allison DID leave Novell because of the M$-Novell deal and not because of a better job opportunity :
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061221081000710
This IS an important point and MUST be mentioned.
the same goes for Robert Love as well.
FTFL, "It is true that one prominent open-source developer, Samba programmer Jeremy Allison, did leave Novell over the Microsoft/Novell patent partnership and was subsequently hired by Google. However, in a brief email exchange with DesktopLinux, Love wrote that he was not leaving Novell because of the Microsoft/Novell patent deal."
However, until we hear from the horse's mouth/blog truth can't be established. I'll also mirror Jeremy's sentiments that Suse/OpenSuse is a very fine and advanced distro and deserves a lot better than novell as its parent company.
FTFL, "It is true that one prominent open-source developer, Samba programmer Jeremy Allison, did leave Novell over the Microsoft/Novell patent partnership and was subsequently hired by Google. However, in a brief email exchange with DesktopLinux, Love wrote that he was not leaving Novell because of the Microsoft/Novell patent deal."
Hmm....
However, until we hear from the horse's mouth/blog truth can't be
established. I'll also mirror Jeremy's sentiments that Suse/OpenSuse is a very fine and advanced distro and deserves a lot better than novell as its parent company.
http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=20528&hed=Exit+Interview%3A+Why...
i believe the horse has spoken.... err i mean neighed :D
then again it IS interesting there are two sets of contradicting quotes on this online.
/me ponders conspiracies
Regards,
- vihan
Vihan Pandey wrote:
FTFL, "It is true that one prominent open-source developer, Samba programmer Jeremy Allison, did leave Novell over the Microsoft/Novell patent partnership and was subsequently hired by Google. However, in a brief email exchange with DesktopLinux, Love wrote that he was not leaving Novell because of the Microsoft/Novell patent deal."
Hmm....
However, until we hear from the horse's mouth/blog truth can't be
established. I'll also mirror Jeremy's sentiments that Suse/OpenSuse is a very fine and advanced distro and deserves a lot better than novell as its parent company.
http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=20528&hed=Exit+Interview%3A+Why...
i believe the horse has spoken.... err i mean neighed :D
then again it IS interesting there are two sets of contradicting quotes on this online.
/me ponders conspiracies
not really.. theres is some confusion. lets do it once again ;-)
This link "http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7924011302.html" that you sent talks about Robert Love.. on this page you'll find this statement "It is true that one prominent open-source developer, Samba programmer Jeremy Allison, did leave Novell over the Microsoft/Novell patent partnership and was subsequently hired by Google. However, in a brief email exchange with DesktopLinux, *Love* wrote that he was not leaving Novell because of the Microsoft/Novell patent deal." (extra emphasis on Love added by me).
While "Jeremy" publicly states his reason for leaving novell.. Robert has been quoted by "DesktopLinux" as *not* leaving novell because of the deal. So "Robert" is the horse that we want to neigh.. the above redherring link is where "Jeremy" is the horse.
Somehow, i seem to type horse as horde (the php framework) by default.. /me needs a vacation.
/me ponders conspiracies
not really.. theres is some confusion. lets do it once again ;-)
This link "http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7924011302.html" that you sent talks about Robert Love.. on this page you'll find this statement "It is true that one prominent open-source developer, Samba programmer Jeremy Allison, did leave Novell over the Microsoft/Novell patent partnership and was subsequently hired by Google. However, in a brief email exchange with DesktopLinux, *Love* wrote that he was not leaving Novell because of the Microsoft/Novell patent deal." (extra emphasis on Love added by me).
Very True.
While "Jeremy" publicly states his reason for leaving novell.. Robert
has been quoted by "DesktopLinux" as *not* leaving novell because of the deal. So "Robert" is the horse that we want to neigh.. the above redherring link is where "Jeremy" is the horse.
Total Agreement.
Somehow, i seem to type horse as horde (the php framework) by default..
/me needs a vacation.
Visit your favourite travel site ;D
i believe two of them will load exceptionally fast in your office :-)
Regards,
- vihan
Vihan Pandey wrote:
/me ponders conspiracies
not really.. theres is some confusion. lets do it once again ;-)
This link "http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7924011302.html" that you sent talks about Robert Love.. on this page you'll find this statement "It is true that one prominent open-source developer, Samba programmer Jeremy Allison, did leave Novell over the Microsoft/Novell patent partnership and was subsequently hired by Google. However, in a brief email exchange with DesktopLinux, *Love* wrote that he was not leaving Novell because of the Microsoft/Novell patent deal." (extra emphasis on Love added by me).
Very True.
While "Jeremy" publicly states his reason for leaving novell.. Robert
has been quoted by "DesktopLinux" as *not* leaving novell because of the deal. So "Robert" is the horse that we want to neigh.. the above redherring link is where "Jeremy" is the horse.
Total Agreement.
From the horses mouth: http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=233523&cid=18998323
Here is some food for thought on the Novell-MS deal.. may be biased. http://en.opensuse.org/FAQ:Novell-MS
While "Jeremy" publicly states his reason for leaving novell.. Robert
has been quoted by "DesktopLinux" as *not* leaving novell because of
the
deal. So "Robert" is the horse that we want to neigh.. the above redherring link is where "Jeremy" is the horse.
Total Agreement.
From the horses mouth: http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=233523&cid=18998323
That clears things. Thanks for follow up :-)
Here is some food for thought on the Novell-MS deal.. may be biased.
Hmm... it all seems sugary at first glance. Only that page refers to the ``official" link here :
http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq.html
which does not seem as sugary.
Regards,
- vihan
On 5/23/07, Vihan Pandey vihanpandey@gmail.com wrote:
In that kind of a situation praising the company for past good is not really the best thing. Simply put - doing that justifies their actions - they could very well claim - we did our bit, now no more so quit whining.
Companies HAVE to realize that FOSS is NOT a one night stand, its a life long commitment :-)
why dont u file a PIL ? or sue them ?
Regards,
- vihan
Companies HAVE to realize that FOSS is NOT a one night stand, its a life long commitment :-)
why dont u file a PIL ? or sue them ?
Because that's not the way to beat them. If they have smart lawyers who have studied the facts and know that all legal issues are ``taken care of" in the deal - what's the point fighting on that ground. If they had claimed stuff that was a direct violation of the GPL or even pure fiction(remember SCO) - yes that would have been grounds for a case.
The best way to fight this is by opposing software patents and spreading that awareness among people.
Since you are so kindly asking me ``why dont u file a PIL ? or sue them ?" why don't you state your position on this thread as well?
Regards,
- vihan
On 5/23/07, Vihan Pandey vihanpandey@gmail.com wrote:
The best way to fight this is by opposing software patents and spreading that awareness among people.
Since you are so kindly asking me ``why dont u file a PIL ? or sue them ?" why don't you state your position on this thread as well?
i have nothing against them.
Regards,
- vihan
On Wednesday 23 May 2007 18:36:11 Harsh Busa wrote:
On 5/23/07, Vihan Pandey vihanpandey@gmail.com wrote:
The best way to fight this is by opposing software patents and spreading that awareness among people.
Since you are so kindly asking me ``why dont u file a PIL ? or sue them ?" why don't you state your position on this thread as well?
i have nothing against them.
And btw, if you haven't noticed yet, they're in it for business and money. Not philosophy.
On 5/23/07, Mrugesh Karnik mrugeshkarnik@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday 23 May 2007 18:36:11 Harsh Busa wrote:
On 5/23/07, Vihan Pandey vihanpandey@gmail.com wrote:
The best way to fight this is by opposing software patents and
spreading
that awareness among people.
Since you are so kindly asking me ``why dont u file a PIL ? or sue
them
?" why don't you state your position on this thread as well?
i have nothing against them.
And btw, if you haven't noticed yet, they're in it for business and money. Not philosophy.
anything wrong abt wanting to earn money? in that case i m evil.
--
Mrugesh Karnik GPG Key 0xBA6F1DA8 Public key on http://wwwkeys.pgp.net
On Wednesday 23 May 2007 20:33:54 Harsh Busa wrote:
?" why don't you state your position on this thread as well?
i have nothing against them.
And btw, if you haven't noticed yet, they're in it for business and money. Not philosophy.
anything wrong abt wanting to earn money? in that case i m evil.
Errr no. I was agreeing with you.
On 5/23/07, Mrugesh Karnik mrugeshkarnik@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday 23 May 2007 20:33:54 Harsh Busa wrote:
?" why don't you state your position on this thread as well?
i have nothing against them.
And btw, if you haven't noticed yet, they're in it for business and money. Not philosophy.
anything wrong abt wanting to earn money? in that case i m evil.
Errr no. I was agreeing with you.
:-)
--
Mrugesh Karnik GPG Key 0xBA6F1DA8 Public key on http://wwwkeys.pgp.net
On Wednesday 23 May 2007 20:33, Harsh Busa wrote:
On 5/23/07, Mrugesh Karnik mrugeshkarnik@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday 23 May 2007 18:36:11 Harsh Busa wrote:
On 5/23/07, Vihan Pandey vihanpandey@gmail.com wrote:
The best way to fight this is by opposing software patents and
spreading
that awareness among people.
Since you are so kindly asking me ``why dont u file a PIL ? or sue
them
?" why don't you state your position on this thread as well?
i have nothing against them.
And btw, if you haven't noticed yet, they're in it for business and money. Not philosophy.
anything wrong abt wanting to earn money? in that case i m evil.
depends. Like looting the bank is evil. Robbing others copyright is evil. Patenting prior art is evil. Running scam schemes like M$ and Novell is VERY EVIL. Working for them is not evil merely stupid. Scaming the scammers is .... aha.. eh...well...what's the scheme?
On Wednesday 23 May 2007 15:57, Harsh Busa wrote:
On 5/23/07, Vihan Pandey vihanpandey@gmail.com wrote:
In that kind of a situation praising the company for past good is not really the best thing. Simply put - doing that justifies their actions - they could very well claim - we did our bit, now no more so quit whining.
Companies HAVE to realize that FOSS is NOT a one night stand, its a life long commitment :-)
why dont u file a PIL ? or sue them ?
Cause you would be battered black and blue and would lose (or at best not win). Hence gpl v3. U see v2 was crafted with the then existent copyright and patent laws. These were subsequently amended in the USA either directly or thru court directives (primarily through the daftness of the patent office whose edicts were used as precedent). Then the wto steps in and starts stomping everyone in sight to comply with copyright laws. Then in the past two years copyright miraculosly morphs to "IP" laws, with patents for dna, naturally occuring protein, software, business methods and god only knows what else. Software by the way is the minor short term problem in comparisn to the rest.
My "head in the sand" statement refers to this aspect and Novell is just a tiny stupid annoying fly in the big battle field. Most unfortunately many important figures in the FOSS world fail to see the problem - or think (correctly) that in the longterm things would have to settle to something less stupid. But sitting on your a.. while the forest is on fire is not my idea of correct action.
-
Dhawal Doshy -
Harsh Busa -
jtd -
Kartik Mistry -
Mrugesh Karnik -
Rony -
Vihan Pandey