I believe that this should have gone to the list. Forwarded as recieved.
Devdas Bhagat
----- Forwarded message from Tushar Gohil tushargohil@rediffmail.com -----
From: "Tushar Gohil" tushargohil@rediffmail.com Date: 25 Aug 2004 18:24:14 -0000 To: "Devdas Bhagat" devdas@dvb.homelinux.org Subject: Re: Re: [ILUG-BOM] [OT] Top 10 questions Newbies should never ask Reply-To: "Tushar Gohil" tushargohil@rediffmail.com
Dear Friends Hello I am Tushar Gohil from Surat (Gujarat). Today I was looking for few Linux related help... And I found Bombay GNU/Linux users group(Linux Users Group, Mumbai, India) ... in google results and I sign up..... Very first mail I got from Devdas Bhagat
I know of very few people in India who share knowledge. Even knowledge is treated as something secret, sharing which will reduce your market value.
Where people share the knowledge with others who nevergot a chance to?
5> I have found that most people I meet need to be "taught" how to use Linux and administer it. There is no quick way of learning to administer a UNIX system. You either learn on the job, from someone who will walk you through it (this *will* take years), or you experiment around and teach yourself. The third easy choice is not to do this at all.
I have one suggestion for a u guy is it possible to make one ircd server and we start online chat... Like irc.freenode.net ##Linux º great source for help... coz I use to chat in #Linux dalnet (nick Tushaar) ircd I can sponsor .. with giga bandwidth support
Tushar Gohil MCP,CCNA.RHCT.SCSA (But no job)
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 Devdas Bhagat wrote :
On 25/08/04 18:10 +0530, Binulal Narayanan wrote:
Quasi:
this shows: #1 Apathy towards GNU/Linux in the education system #2 Complete ignorance of current state of affairs *in his own subject* by the student.
Dear Friends: This is the case with 99% of the technical student community in India. :-( . Well, this will be more clear if you count the number of
In accordance with Sturgeon's law, that should be 90%.
GNU/Linux users in your class. I don't know what happens in Premier institutes; but u can see people (who are going to be the mighty engineers and scientists who's supposed to shape our nations future) using pirated software everywhere. The computer dealers who assemble
Well, if you remove the enforced Windows requirements from courses, then *some* people may be motivated to move to Linux/BSD/Unix.
Here, in my opinion, are the factors hindering Linux usage/adoption:
1> The prevalance of cheap, low quality hardware (eg, internal modems). 2> The lack of support for Linux from most assemblers/hardware vendors. This is a major issue when it comes to diagnosing hardware trouble. Given the very wide variety of hardware available for the x86 platform, support is far more complicated than for a simpler platform like the Mac.
PCs give pirated software. And most of our students BUY assembed PCs -
3> Because they /want/ support. What we really need is a Walmart equivalent offering cheap Linux desktops for 10K or less. Unlike the developed world, where 1K USD is a relatively small amount, the equivalent for an Indian is high.
4> Linux GUIs are not familiar to the end user. If you say KDE/Gnome, they need to run as fast as Windows in 128 MB RAM, which simply isn't happening.
5> I have found that most people I meet need to be "taught" how to use Linux and administer it. There is no quick way of learning to administer a Unix system. You either learn on the job, from someone who will walk you through it (this *will* take years), or you experiment around and teach yourself. The third easy choice is not to do this at all.
instead of assembling one. When projects come, they take it from Open Source or BUY it from PROJECT GUIDANCE AGENCIES. If you ask our "TECHNICALLY POWERED GRADUATE" such questions, s/he'll say it's out of syllabus. Nobody is ready to take the pain. If technical Students ignore technology so much, what about others. (Anyway they live better lives.)
Life? whats that?
So how long will we have to wait for the culture to evolve, where we use softwares giving the right RESPECT to itsdevelopers?
Respect? Most of the software developers are in it for the money, not respect. And money comes to those who can support Windows and develop for it faster than those who develop for Linux (state of the market).
where people put back something to the ocean ofknowledge, from which they nourished ?
I know of very few people in India who share knowledge. Even knowledge is treated as something secret, sharing which will reduce your market value.
where people share the knowledge with others who nevergot a chance to?
A chance to do what? Learn? Most of the people on this list who share knowledge have joined much earlier. They know enough to search for information on Google first. Given that they learnt at a time when the TLDP was young, Internet connections were expensive, and Google just didn't have the volume of information it does today, I would say that they have made enough contributions back in terms of the sheer volume of documentation.
So, when do the newbies on the list start posting answers? It doesn't matter if you aren't really clear on the topic, try helping and reading documentation to help out. You will learn far more that way.
Devdas Bhagat
----- End forwarded message -----
Why cant we just use freenode? Most of us (if others too) use freenode for everything else, as it is. #gentoo, #debian and other projects/chans. Cant see why another server needs to be created for a single channel, when irc.freenode.net/glugbom or something would work just fine and stick to the standards.
The problem with people today, is no one is willing to do R&D on their free times. Its too much of 'work' as it seems and should be done during work hours. Innovation is slowly dying from this country. :-/
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 00:37:36 +0530, Devdas Bhagat devdas@dvb.homelinux.org wrote:
I believe that this should have gone to the list. Forwarded as recieved.
Devdas Bhagat
----- Forwarded message from Tushar Gohil tushargohil@rediffmail.com -----
From: "Tushar Gohil" tushargohil@rediffmail.com Date: 25 Aug 2004 18:24:14 -0000 To: "Devdas Bhagat" devdas@dvb.homelinux.org Subject: Re: Re: [ILUG-BOM] [OT] Top 10 questions Newbies should never ask Reply-To: "Tushar Gohil" tushargohil@rediffmail.com
Dear Friends Hello I am Tushar Gohil from Surat (Gujarat). Today I was looking for few Linux related help... And I found Bombay GNU/Linux users group(Linux Users Group, Mumbai, India) ... in google results and I sign up..... Very first mail I got from Devdas Bhagat
I know of very few people in India who share knowledge. Even knowledge is treated as something secret, sharing which will reduce your market value.
Where people share the knowledge with others who nevergot a chance to?
5> I have found that most people I meet need to be "taught" how to use Linux and administer it. There is no quick way of learning to administer a UNIX system. You either learn on the job, from someone who will walk you through it (this *will* take years), or you experiment around and teach yourself. The third easy choice is not to do this at all.
I have one suggestion for a u guy is it possible to make one ircd server and we start online chat... Like irc.freenode.net ##Linux º great source for help... coz I use to chat in #Linux dalnet (nick Tushaar) ircd I can sponsor .. with giga bandwidth support
Tushar Gohil MCP,CCNA.RHCT.SCSA (But no job)
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 Devdas Bhagat wrote :
On 25/08/04 18:10 +0530, Binulal Narayanan wrote:
Quasi:
this shows: #1 Apathy towards GNU/Linux in the education system #2 Complete ignorance of current state of affairs *in his own subject* by the student.
Dear Friends: This is the case with 99% of the technical student community in India. :-( . Well, this will be more clear if you count the number of
In accordance with Sturgeon's law, that should be 90%.
GNU/Linux users in your class. I don't know what happens in Premier institutes; but u can see people (who are going to be the mighty engineers and scientists who's supposed to shape our nations future) using pirated software everywhere. The computer dealers who assemble
Well, if you remove the enforced Windows requirements from courses, then *some* people may be motivated to move to Linux/BSD/Unix.
Here, in my opinion, are the factors hindering Linux usage/adoption:
1> The prevalance of cheap, low quality hardware (eg, internal modems). 2> The lack of support for Linux from most assemblers/hardware vendors. This is a major issue when it comes to diagnosing hardware trouble. Given the very wide variety of hardware available for the x86 platform, support is far more complicated than for a simpler platform like the Mac.
PCs give pirated software. And most of our students BUY assembed PCs -
3> Because they /want/ support. What we really need is a Walmart equivalent offering cheap Linux desktops for 10K or less. Unlike the developed world, where 1K USD is a relatively small amount, the equivalent for an Indian is high.
4> Linux GUIs are not familiar to the end user. If you say KDE/Gnome, they need to run as fast as Windows in 128 MB RAM, which simply isn't happening.
5> I have found that most people I meet need to be "taught" how to use Linux and administer it. There is no quick way of learning to administer a Unix system. You either learn on the job, from someone who will walk you through it (this *will* take years), or you experiment around and teach yourself. The third easy choice is not to do this at all.
instead of assembling one. When projects come, they take it from Open Source or BUY it from PROJECT GUIDANCE AGENCIES. If you ask our "TECHNICALLY POWERED GRADUATE" such questions, s/he'll say it's out of syllabus. Nobody is ready to take the pain. If technical Students ignore technology so much, what about others. (Anyway they live better lives.)
Life? whats that?
So how long will we have to wait for the culture to evolve, where we use softwares giving the right RESPECT to itsdevelopers?
Respect? Most of the software developers are in it for the money, not respect. And money comes to those who can support Windows and develop for it faster than those who develop for Linux (state of the market).
where people put back something to the ocean ofknowledge, from which they nourished ?
I know of very few people in India who share knowledge. Even knowledge is treated as something secret, sharing which will reduce your market value.
where people share the knowledge with others who nevergot a chance to?
A chance to do what? Learn? Most of the people on this list who share knowledge have joined much earlier. They know enough to search for information on Google first. Given that they learnt at a time when the TLDP was young, Internet connections were expensive, and Google just didn't have the volume of information it does today, I would say that they have made enough contributions back in terms of the sheer volume of documentation.
So, when do the newbies on the list start posting answers? It doesn't matter if you aren't really clear on the topic, try helping and reading documentation to help out. You will learn far more that way.
Devdas Bhagat
----- End forwarded message -----
On 26/08/04 02:22 +0530, Atul Awasthi wrote:
Why cant we just use freenode? Most of us (if others too) use freenode for everything else, as it is. #gentoo, #debian and other projects/chans. Cant see why another server needs to be created for a single channel, when irc.freenode.net/glugbom or something would work just fine and stick to the standards.
There used to be an irc.ilug-bom.org.in. It died out due to lack of interest. How many people are actually willing to be online all the time, or for large amounts of time, idling around? f3ew#irc.oftc.net f3ew#irc.freenode.net
The problem with people today, is no one is willing to do R&D on their free times. Its too much of 'work' as it seems and should be done during work hours. Innovation is slowly dying from this country. :-/
Bad habits stick around though. Top posting?
Devdas Bhagat
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Atul Awasthi spake thusly:
a single channel, when irc.freenode.net/glugbom or something would work just fine and stick to the standards.
Lack of numbers.
The problem with people today, is no one is willing to do R&D on their free times.
eh? This is one of the best one's I have heard in some time! :>
Its too much of 'work' as it seems and should be done during work hours. Innovation is slowly dying from this country. :-/
... and my grandpa used to say ... "since the British went, this country is going to the DOGS".
ROTFL
And the problem with people today is they dont care about manners.
Top Posting && Extremely bad O/Q ratio. :(
-
Atul Awasthi -
Devdas Bhagat -
quasi