13 Jan
2003
13 Jan
'03
7:34 p.m.
When using fetchmail, how do I delete oversized messages from the
server without actually fetching them? The man page of fetchmail
doesn't help. I want fetchmail to issue "dele #n" command to the
server for each oversized message.
If fetchmail is unable to do it, is there any other way?
--
Abhir Joshi
http://education.vsnl.com/abhir/
13 Jan
13 Jan
8:41 p.m.
Abhir Joshi wrote:
When using fetchmail, how do I delete oversized
messages from
the server without actually fetching them? The man page of
It's not possible with fetchmail AFAIK. :(
If fetchmail is unable to do it, is there any other
way?
Yes, with my POP accounts I do it directly like this:
$ telnet <pop-server> 110
USER <username>
OK
PASS <password>
OK
DELE <message-number>
OK
QUIT
You can check the size of the messages with LIST, etc.
Hope that solves your prob for now.
Manish
--
"The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and do
not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation."
16 Jan
16 Jan
4:36 a.m.
Now that I know it can't be achieved using fetchmail, I was wandering,
why this feature isn't yet incorporated into fetchmail? This feature
really helps to get rid of those whopping mails with image attachments
without wasting the dialup bandwidth.
--
Abhir Joshi
http://education.vsnl.com/abhir/
10:20 a.m.
On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Abhir Joshi wrote:
why this feature isn't yet incorporated into
fetchmail? This feature
You need to ask ESR about that. Send in a patch if you want... he might
incorporate it into the next release.
--
If it's working, the diagnostics say it's fine.
If it's not working, the diagnostics say it's fine.
- A proposed addition to rules for realtime programming
9:56 p.m.
On Thu, Jan 16, 2003 at 04:39:22AM +0530, Abhir Joshi wrote:
| Now that I know it can't be achieved using fetchmail, I was wandering,
| why this feature isn't yet incorporated into fetchmail? This feature
| really helps to get rid of those whopping mails with image attachments
| without wasting the dialup bandwidth.
You can always use the -l option with fetchmail (and flush the mails
using -F later on).
--
Chirag Kantharia, symonds.net/~chyrag/
13 Jan
13 Jan
10:17 p.m.
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Abhir Joshi wrote:
When using fetchmail, how do I delete oversized
messages from the
server without actually fetching them? The man page of fetchmail
doesn't help. I want fetchmail to issue "dele #n" command to the
server for each oversized message.
If fetchmail is unable to do it, is there any other way?
I don't think fetchmail can do this but take a look at mailfilter. You can
set it to automatially delete messages *on the server* based on a variety
of criteria. Look for it on sourceforge.
Sharukh.
--
Dr. Sharukh K. R. Pavri Homeopath and Linux Enthusiast.
Mumbai, India. http://www.pavri.net/
14 Jan
14 Jan
11:48 p.m.
On Mon, Jan 13, 2003 at 07:31:14PM +0530, Abhir Joshi wrote:
When using fetchmail, how do I delete oversized
messages from the
server without actually fetching them? The man page of fetchmail
doesn't help. I want fetchmail to issue "dele #n" command to the
server for each oversized message.
If fetchmail is unable to do it, is there any other way?
Let me introduce you to JFetch. I started this project sometime back.
Although, I haven't been doing much development on it; I still use it
and it works great for me. It was made to fulfil exactly these kinds of
requirements. Of course, it is Java based, so you will need a JVM; and
believe me the flexibility is really worth the tradeoff in resources.
Check http://www.execve.net/jfetch
I'll be more than glad to help anyone with configuring it; who knows
might make a release again ;).
Cheers,
-g
--
Gautam Mani <execve_at_execve_dot_net>
Don't be a slave! Use the Door -- use Linux.
Secure-Key: [ A7E6 795F AF8D 91AF 1D5E 3CC5 7847 7DCC 7586 EF34 ]
17 Jan
17 Jan
7:44 p.m.
On Tue, Jan 14, 2003 at 11:42:02PM +0530, Gautam Mani wrote:
Let me introduce you to JFetch. I started this project
sometime back.
Although, I haven't been doing much development on it; I still use it
and it works great for me. It was made to fulfil exactly these kinds of
requirements. Of course, it is Java based, so you will need a JVM; and
believe me the flexibility is really worth the tradeoff in resources.
Check http://www.execve.net/jfetch
I'll be more than glad to help anyone with configuring it; who knows
might make a release again ;).
Well, I haven't yet checked it but it would be really nice if you
wrote it in C or C++.
--
Abhir Joshi
http://education.vsnl.com/abhir/
No one can be told what the Matrix is, you have to see it for yourself.
--- Morpheus from "The Matrix"
8:08 p.m.
Abhir Joshi wrote:
And why do you say that?
Manish
--
"The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and do
not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation."
On Tue, Jan 14, 2003 at 11:42:02PM +0530, Gautam Mani
wrote:
<snip>
Check
http://www.execve.net/jfetch
I'll be more than glad to help anyone with configuring it; who
knows might make a release again ;).
Well, I haven't yet checked it but it would be really nice if
you wrote it in C or C++.
11:19 p.m.
On Fri, Jan 17, 2003 at 07:55:57PM +0530, Manish Jethani wrote:
And why do you say that?
simply because you need to have a java interpreter for that. A
standalone binary would be cleaner.
--
Abhir Joshi
http://education.vsnl.com/abhir/
18 Jan
18 Jan
12:22 a.m.
Abhir Joshi wrote:
simply because you need to have a java interpreter for
that.
A standalone binary would be cleaner.
Well, actually, having a Java interpreter would be a lot cleaner
than writing all your s/w in C/C++. Programs like Gautam's are
better written (and maintained!) in Java. That's why Java (or
Perl, or some other high-level language) exists!
Though Java is not really an open-source thing, it's still
pretty much open and widely used and accepted even in the
open-source community. Lots and lots of business s/w has been
written (and, recently, ported) to Java. At least one Free JRE
would come bundled with most Linux distros.
Manish
--
"The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and do
not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation."
Manish Jethani phone (work) +91 80 4163488
Member Technical Staff manish.jethani AT oracle DOT com
Oracle (India)
Visit my personal home page:
http://www.geocities.com/manish_jethani/
10:32 a.m.
On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 00:14:36 +0530
Manish Jethani wrote:
Well, actually, having a Java interpreter would be a
lot cleaner
than writing all your s/w in C/C++. Programs like Gautam's are
better written (and maintained!) in Java. That's why Java (or
Perl, or some other high-level language) exists!
"lot cleaner"... "better written"... these are all emprirical
statements. Java the language exists to be able to program for
Java the platform. AFA choosing the Java platform is concerned,
I'd rather prefer going through some pain on my part than have
thousands of users pay the performance price. Nor do I want to
pay the performance price myself, so my PC doesn't have a JVM.
--
Tahir Hashmi (VSE, NCST)
http://staff.ncst.ernet.in/tahir
tahir AT ncst DOT ernet DOT in
We, the rest of humanity, wish GNU luck and Godspeed
3:45 p.m.
On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 12:14:36AM +0530, Manish Jethani wrote:
Well, actually, having a Java interpreter would be a
lot cleaner
than writing all your s/w in C/C++. Programs like Gautam's are
better written (and maintained!) in Java. That's why Java (or
Perl, or some other high-level language) exists!
Gautam's program is something with very basic functionality; it is
like an enhanced fetchmail (I haven't tried JFetch yet. I downloaded
it but I don't yet have JVM). Many more people would accept it if it
could be converted into a standalone binary.
open-source community. Lots and lots of business s/w
has been
written (and, recently, ported) to Java. At least one Free JRE
would come bundled with most Linux distros.
And what about those thousands of machines which had GNU/Linux or BSD
or ... installed long before todays fancy Linux distros were
available? JFetch is not a business s/w and its use is not limited to
some organizations.
Also, as pointed out by Tahir, "lot cleaner" is something the
programmer or maintainer is concerned with, who, anyway, is used to
working with that complexity. For a user, it's cleaner if he can
execute it with ./JFetch without any unnecessary virtual machine
comming in between.
Since JFetch is an enhancement to fetchmail and not radically
different from fetchmail, I feel that instead of writing a totally new
software, a patch to fetchmail would be more helpful. ESR should be
told about this (It's possible that Gautam has already had a
correspondence with ESR). If he refuses to include this functionality
for some reason, then a new software is worth. Having the
functionality added to fetchmail would also mean that users would just
have to upgrade their existing fetchmail and add the new options to
the existing fetchmail configuration file.
Ultimately it is Gautam's choice. Is there any way to convert the
java byte code to native code binary? If there is, then those
binaries could be distributed, and people like me, who don't have JVM,
could start using it right away.
--
Abhir Joshi
http://education.vsnl.com/abhir/
5:51 p.m.
On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 03:50:07PM +0530, Abhir Joshi wrote:
On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 12:14:36AM +0530, Manish
Jethani wrote:
There was a specific reason that I chose to use Java in this case.
JFetch allows you to easily plugin mail-filters which is really kewl.
So all it takes is creating a filter complying to certain interfaces,
and dropping it in the classpath. Configuration etc. all can be provided
through one central config file. Java's dynamic class-loading mechanism
helped me a lot here. As I said earlier, I would rather have this
flexibility than worry about a running JVM.
JVM's have become faster and faster over the years and anyone following
the Java world would know about technologies like Hotspot which are
dramatic improvements in the JVM implementation.
Well, actually, having a Java interpreter would
be a lot cleaner
than writing all your s/w in C/C++. Programs like Gautam's are
better written (and maintained!) in Java. That's why Java (or
Perl, or some other high-level language) exists!
Gautam's program is something with very basic functionality; it is
like an enhanced fetchmail (I haven't tried JFetch yet. I downloaded
it but I don't yet have JVM). Many more people would accept it if it
could be converted into a standalone binary.
Since JFetch is an enhancement to fetchmail and not
radically
different from fetchmail, I feel that instead of writing a totally new
software, a patch to fetchmail would be more helpful. ESR should be
told about this (It's possible that Gautam has already had a
correspondence with ESR). If he refuses to include this functionality
for some reason, then a new software is worth. Having the
functionality added to fetchmail would also mean that users would just
have to upgrade their existing fetchmail and add the new options to
the existing fetchmail configuration file.
I use a dialup the amount of time I spend online needs to be a minimum.
I used to be a fetchmail user, and I wanted specific functionality like:
- message-id filtering (duplicate message removal)
- size based filtering
- spam filtering
Anyone who knows the POP3 protocol know that these (and more) filters
can be achieved without actually downloading the message. Just the
headers are sufficient. Now, fetchmail could probably include the size
feature... but thats just one of the many that I wanted. SPAM control
was another of my requirements (sender based etc.) And you know about
duplicate messages due to people cross-posting. Getting all this into
fetchmail seemed unrealistic... though I never got in touch with ESR.
Ultimately it is Gautam's choice. Is there any
way to convert the
java byte code to native code binary? If there is, then those
binaries could be distributed, and people like me, who don't have JVM,
could start using it right away.
Bytecode->native converters exist today... but FAIK they are quite
unstable.
BTW, can anyone shed some light on how plugins are/can be implemented in C/C++
(like GAIM etc.) Any pointers will be greatly appreciated.
--
Abhir Joshi
http://education.vsnl.com/abhir/
Cheers,
-g
--
Gautam Mani <execve_at_execve_dot_net>
Don't be a slave! Use the Door -- use Linux.
Secure-Key: [ A7E6 795F AF8D 91AF 1D5E 3CC5 7847 7DCC 7586 EF34 ]
6:52 p.m.
On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:48:21 +0530
Gautam Mani wrote:
JFetch allows you to easily plugin mail-filters which
is really kewl.
[snip]
through one central config file. Java's dynamic
class-loading mechanism
helped me a lot here.
You can do all of this in C and C++. "Dynamic class-loading"
needs to be OS supported and you can have this done in C and C++.
AFAIK, it can be done in any language as long as the compiler
knows how to generate object code for such purposes. I don't know
when or by whom this technique was first implemented but A little
googlizing revealed a Sun Microsystems document dated 1992
regarding this. Most of the mainstream OSes support this now.
--
Tahir Hashmi (VSE, NCST)
http://staff.ncst.ernet.in/tahir
tahir AT ncst DOT ernet DOT in
We, the rest of humanity, wish GNU luck and Godspeed
9:05 p.m.
On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 06:50:51PM +0530, Tahir Hashmi wrote:
As you can see in my earlier post, I am interested in knowing about
implementation of plugins in C/C++. If by "dynamic class-loading in
C/C++" you are referring to the dlxxx calls, let me tell you that from
whatever little I have read about them, they are really not usable. They
don't guarantee type-safety, and require various workarounds (atleast if
you want to work with classes). Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong
here.
Java gives me a clean way to integrate these plugins also thereby
providing type safety. I have also used its serialization capabilities
for storage of message-ids etc.
I am of the opinion that each of these languages has its place, and the
decision to use one over the other is totally upto the developer in
question. For me, speed of development is very important. When I look
back and think if I had tried implementing the same in C/C++, I am
looking at all these issues (from the top of my head):
- IMAP / POP3 client implementations (I also have experimental NNTP)
- SMTP client implementation (for delivery to an MTA)
- Mail storage implementations (mailbox, maildir)
- Class loading (with type-safety)
- Configuration
- Logging
Some of these issues are resolved by the Java language itself. Some are
Java extensions. With the extensions following well defined specifications,
the learning curve to use the extensions is also very little.
I see speed of development, class-loading abilities and the availability
of extensions and libraries as the primary factors in using Java in this
particular case.
through one central config file. Java's
dynamic class-loading mechanism
helped me a lot here.
You can do all of this in C and C++. "Dynamic class-loading"
needs to be OS supported and you can have this done in C and C++. --
Tahir Hashmi (VSE, NCST)
Cheers,
-g
--
Gautam Mani <execve_at_execve_dot_net>
Don't be a slave! Use the Door -- use Linux.
Secure-Key: [ A7E6 795F AF8D 91AF 1D5E 3CC5 7847 7DCC 7586 EF34 ]
20 Jan
20 Jan
11 a.m.
On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 20:55:26 +0530
Gautam Mani wrote:
As you can see in my earlier post, I am interested in
knowing
about implementation of plugins in C/C++. If by "dynamic
class-loading in C/C++" you are referring to the dlxxx calls,
let me tell you that from whatever little I have read about
them, they are really not usable. They don't guarantee
type-safety, and require various workarounds (atleast if you
want to work with classes). Feel free to correct me if I'm
wrong here.
You're half right here. Type-safety isn't guaranteed by the
linking process itself, since linkers are neither supposed to
know about data types, nor the language from which the object
code was compiled. However, name mangling of symbols ensures that
type safety is enforced for C++. This is the reason why the
"extern C" artifact exists. (In fact, you can have extern foo
declarations for linkage to object code from any language foo.
Talk of interoperability ;-) ). The workaround you mentioned, is
taken care of by the compiler without the programmer having to
bother about it. In short, C++ linkage *is* type-safe.
providing type safety. I have also used its
serialization
capabilities for storage of message-ids etc.
If you mean Object Serialization, perhaps xparam.sourceforge.net
may be the answer.
--
Tahir Hashmi (VSE, NCST)
http://staff.ncst.ernet.in/tahir
tahir AT ncst DOT ernet DOT in
We, the rest of humanity, wish GNU luck and Godspeed
18 Jan
18 Jan
8:08 p.m.
Abhir Joshi wrote:
it is like an enhanced fetchmail (I haven't tried
JFetch yet.
I'm not sure whether it's tightly coupled with fetchmail.
I downloaded it but I don't yet have JVM). Many
more people
would accept it if it could be converted into a standalone
binary.
Actually, to tell you frankly even I often find myself in this
situation. Sometimes I don't have a JVM, sometimes I don't have
perl. But over time I've found it worth the effort to get a CD
and install a decent JVM. That immediately opens me to so many
useful applications out there. That's also the very reason why
I bought a PC, installed GNU/Linux, ... and now installing a
JVM!
Also, as pointed out by Tahir, "lot cleaner"
is something the
programmer or maintainer is concerned with, who, anyway, is
used to working with that complexity. For a user, it's
^^^^^^^^^^
I think you're forgetting the basic principle here - Keep It
Simple, Stupid! UNIX itself is based on this funda.
cleaner if he can execute it with ./JFetch without
any
unnecessary virtual machine comming in between.
sh$ cat JFetch
#!/bin/sh
java -jar jfetch.jar
sh$ ./JFetch
Initialising...
new software is worth. Having the functionality added
to
fetchmail would also mean that users would just have to
upgrade their existing fetchmail and add the new options to
the existing fetchmail configuration file.
So far, this the only good reason I've seen for having the thing
written in C. Then again I'm not too sure. :)
those binaries could be distributed, and people like
me, who
don't have JVM, could start using it right away.
If there's no acceptable JVM available for your platform then I
can consider starting off a project to write one. But in this
case I guess you're simply being a bum by refusing to install
one.
Manish
--
"The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and do
not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation."
Manish Jethani phone (work) +91 80 4163488
Member Technical Staff manish.jethani(a)oracle.com
Oracle (India)
Visit my personal home page:
http://www.geocities.com/manish_jethani/
19 Jan
19 Jan
3:36 p.m.
New subject: The herd [was: deleting oversized messages ... ]
On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 08:00:05PM +0530, Manish Jethani wrote:
Actually, to tell you frankly even I often find myself
in this
situation. Sometimes I don't have a JVM, sometimes I don't have
perl. But over time I've found it worth the effort to get a CD
and install a decent JVM. That immediately opens me to so many
useful applications out there. That's also the very reason why
I bought a PC, installed GNU/Linux, ... and now installing a
JVM!
Sounds so familiar ... lets try putting this in a different language:
Hacker: I developed my code on the Windows platform because
everyone seems to be using it anyway.
Webdesigner: This sight is best viewed in IE version so-and-so because
I developed it in IE version so-and-so because ... (you guessed it)
everyone seems to be using it anyway.
User: I use Windows because there are so many more apps available on
it, I don't mind paying for the licenses ... besides, (yes, right
again) everyone else seems to be using it anyway!
Sameer.
--
Research Scholar,
Reconfigurable Computing Lab,
KReSIT, IIT-Bombay.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't look now, but there is a multi-legged creature on your shoulder.
20 Jan
20 Jan
12:15 a.m.
New subject: The herd [was: deleting oversized messages ... ]
Sameer D. Sahasrabuddhe wrote:
On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 08:00:05PM +0530, Manish
Jethani wrote:
The problem with developing only for Windows is that your code
will run only on Microsoft's OSes. Users would need to install
some version (or worse, a particular, newer version) of Windows.
Other companies don't (can't?!) develop Windows. This locks the
user into "Microsoft technologies".
And what's wrong with that?
1) RMS: This is against the Free software philosophy.
2) Apple, Sun, etc: This is creating (has created) a "monopoly".
3) People like me: Microsoft technologies are crappy anyway. :)
Is that the case with Java? Do users need to install Sun's JVM?
Are other companies/groups allowed to develop their own JVMs?
Are the specs open? Are there Java compilers other than Sun's
available in the market?
You can't be comparing Windows with Java.
<side>
Slashdot: Programming Languages Will Become OSes
[http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/01/17/1656249]
</side>
Actually, to tell you frankly even I often find
myself in
this situation. Sometimes I don't have a JVM, sometimes I
don't have perl. But over time I've found it worth the
effort to get a CD and install a decent JVM. That
immediately opens me to so many useful applications out
there. That's also the very reason why I bought a PC,
installed GNU/Linux, ... and now installing a JVM!
Sounds so familiar ... lets try putting this in a different
language:
Hacker: I developed my code on the Windows platform because
everyone seems to be using it anyway. Webdesigner: This sight is best viewed in IE version
so-and-so
because I developed it in IE version so-and-so because ...
(you guessed it) everyone seems to be using it anyway.
Again, developing for "IE only" is akin to developing for a
particular, non-standards-conforming JVM (how about Microsoft's
JVM for an example?).
But, yes, developing for "the Web" as a platform is ok (good?)
as long as your code is standards compliant (valid HTML,
limited/no use of Javasript). If you don't want to install a
Web browser on your system then I'm afraid I can't write a
"thin-client" version of my front-end in C just so that you can
run it "directly from the commandl line". It wouldn't be
profitable enough for me, _amongst_other_things_.
(A lot of software developers are doing that BTW - desupporting
old thin-clients and promoting Web-based front-ends.)
User: I use Windows because there are so many more
apps
available on it, I don't mind paying for the licenses ...
besides, (yes, right again) everyone else seems to be using it
anyway!
Well, if J. Random User doesn't mind paying for the license fees
for Windows and _she_likes_using_it_ then I don't see *any*
problem with it. You might not like this fact, but a lot of
people actually love using Windows just like you and I love
using GNU/Linux. Some others use it because they have major
investments in it (my uncle is a lawyer, and he has hajaar
documentation in Word format, and at the age of 45 he has no
interest in learning how to use a new word processor just
because Windows is not Free!).
We need to help more users migrate to Linux, and we need to make
more users start liking Linux. The latter seems to be turning
out to be difficult (correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the way
I feel, honestly). Of course, I'm speaking of Linux in desktop
context here.
Manish
--
"The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and do
not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation."
Manish Jethani phone (work) +91 80 4163488
Member Technical Staff manish.jethani(a)oracle.com
Oracle (India)
Visit my personal home page:
http://www.geocities.com/manish_jethani/
6 Feb
6 Feb
11:20 p.m.
New subject: The herd [was: deleting oversized messages ... ]
On 20/01/03 00:05 +0530, Manish Jethani wrote:
<side>
Slashdot: Programming Languages Will Become OSes
[http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/01/17/1656249]
</side>
Those who do not understand unix are condemned to reinvent it,
poorly.
-- Henry Spencer
Devdas Bhagat
7546
days inactive
7570
days old
20 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Abhir Joshi -
Chirag Kantharia -
Devdas Bhagat -
Dr. Sharukh K. R. Pavri. -
Gautam Mani -
Manish Jethani -
Philip S Tellis -
Sameer D. Sahasrabuddhe -
Tahir Hashmi