2006/10/10, Abhishek Choudhary choudhary@indicybers.net:
Well why not "Linux/GNU" instead of "GNU/Linux"? Is it some age factor? :)
All right, if you use Hurd then probably only GNU or Hurd/GNU! To be clear, show me one machine that runs vanilla "GNU". Amusing right - you might think I am a novice who does not know why one needs a kernel! If _you_ do understand the need for a kernel then why emphasize that GNU is an "Operating System" instead of claiming it to be what it actually is - a wonderful "toolchain".
GNU is an operating system, and that is why the prooject talks of everything:kernel+userland+toolchain+desktop etc., GNU project is a comprehensive project. The kernel is still taking the first steps, falling now and then, the toddler way. This project did not start now, but in 1984. Why do you say it is JUST a tool chain, when you know that without it no free software can be made, maintained and distributed free. If you use 'JUST a x' to a dispensable thing, you may be right. Prove that it is dispensable. Kernel is indispensable, so we embrace all free kernels.
Well then GNU is indeed dependent on Linux, just as the latter is dependent on it. Lets call a chair a chair and a table a table.
that is why I called it symbiosis. we are not those who excluded it, the others did so. So tell them dependable core things cannot be excluded.
Then why does GPL tend to restrict it? Why are non-English versions of GPL not officially available? (correct me if this is novice Q) Why does GPL not address the issues regarding localisation? Why does GPL take away ones rights to actually write prorietary code derived from it?
Suicidal! Because, that kills freedom of others, and does not preserve the existing freedom. If we dont preserve existing GPL code, it does not stay, grow, multiply, and inherit. The restriction in GPL is intended to protect freedom from evaporating. Invention of copyleft is one of the greatest hacks of the last century, which made all this possible. Growth of freedom is possible only in a copyleft culture. In short, to protect the freedom.
(Forgive me if I have touched on a painful nerve) There are numerous commercial software vendors who use GNU software in their commercial stuff. For instance HP- UX. All of us who have used it know the extent to which GNU is a part of HP-UX. It suits HP's model. They are a hardware vendor, and make money from hardware more than they do from software. However, think of a small time developer. An individual who has his aspiations, dreams, wishes, and a word in his heart which reads like "freedom". If he were to develop a very niche piece of software, he would be forced to make public his source code because he cannot use commercial tool-chain, and is therefore left with GNU, which implies his code falls under the GPL license. Now whose freedom are we talking about???
I am not clear. If he is the original author of the program, then he is free to decide. Please read http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html
Please! Lets talk freedom - freedom as in free, lest freedom becomes the next f-word! Look at the 95% of our population to whom all of this discussion just does not make any sense. No not because it is not relevant, but because it is in English!
That is why, let us work hard to localize all applications to Indian languages, then 65% people will have potential access.
it!!!!!! Still not. Come on get down to producing some real work now. Probably instead of keying in useless comments and counter comments, concentrate on keying in at least a few lines of code. You will certainly be helping FSF a lot more that way. And indeed if you also do something for the 95% (which many of you involved in Indic localisation are actually doing), then trust me you will also have done a lot of good towards "Freedom".
You are right, that is why I contribute to Indic-computing, as well as to another GNU project (GNOWSYS). Other projects that I contribute to are gnowledge.org, gnoware.org, the Indic fonts (Gargi, Samyak) and supervising several others. There are others in this list too who are active contributors.
True, working is more fun.
Nagarjuna
2006/10/11, Nagarjuna G. nagarjun@gnowledge.org:
All right, if you use Hurd then probably only GNU or Hurd/GNU! To be clear, show me one machine that runs vanilla "GNU".
lily.nipl.net (you can get shell access) see nipl.net
On 11/10/06, Nagarjuna G. nagarjun@gnowledge.org wrote:
GNU is an operating system, and that is why the prooject talks of everything:kernel+userland+toolchain+desktop etc., GNU project is a comprehensive project. The kernel is still taking the first steps, falling now and then, the toddler way. This project did not start now, but in 1984. Why do you say it is JUST a tool chain, when you know that without it no free software can be made, maintained and distributed free. If you use 'JUST a x' to a dispensable thing, you may be right. Prove that it is dispensable. Kernel is indispensable, so we embrace all free kernels.
and so we give due respect to linux by calling an operating system gnu/linux. because it can work with another kernel but since we like to give due credit to the great efords of linus, we call gnu OS as gnu/linux. the very fact that being an operating system we make reference to the kernel as a credit must be appreciated. and don't forget linux is compiled with gnu c compiler or gcc for short. and what is make?
Well then GNU is indeed dependent on Linux, just as the latter is dependent on it. Lets call a chair a chair and a table a table.
that is why I called it symbiosis. we are not those who excluded it, the others did so. So tell them dependable core things cannot be excluded.
indeed that's the way it should be. gnu/linux or linux/gnu, it is one and the same till you realise that kernel is made for an operating system, operating system is not made for a kernel. therefore gnu/linux.
Then why does GPL te> (Forgive me if I have touched on a painful nerve) There are numerous commercial software vendors who use GNU software in their commercial stuff. For instance HP- UX. All of us who have used it know the extent to which GNU is a part of HP-UX. It suits HP's model. They are a hardware vendor, and make money from hardware more than they do from software. However, think of a small time developer. An individual who has his aspiations, dreams, wishes, and a word in his heart which reads like "freedom". If he were to develop a very niche piece of software, he would be forced to make public his source code because he cannot use commercial tool-chain, and is therefore left with GNU, which implies his code falls under the GPL license. Now whose freedom are we talking about???
I am not clear. If he is the original author of the program, then he is free to decide. Please read http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html
and one more point, how many people using the software in this case are going to be programmers or even software venders? how many can even customise it them selves even though they are programmers? and who says you can't charge for the copies? if some one else puts it on the web as is, it is nothing but a advertise of that software for free. just think, if software is closed source and is pyrated, will the customer have any rights to claim support from you? but when the software is open sourced, your support of customisations apply to each and every user. if you want to call free software business a service based, then so be it. but here the scope of you as a software developer giving service and earning is more, because there is no un official customer using non supported pyrated software.
it!!!!!! Still not. Come on get down to producing some real work now. Probably instead of keying in useless comments and counter comments, concentrate on keying in at least a few lines of code. You will certainly be helping FSF a lot more that way. And indeed if you also do something for the 95% (which many of you involved in Indic localisation are actually doing), then trust me you will also have done a lot of good towards "Freedom".
You are right, that is why I contribute to Indic-computing, as well as to another GNU project (GNOWSYS). Other projects that I contribute to are gnowledge.org, gnoware.org, the Indic fonts (Gargi, Samyak) and supervising several others. There are others in this list too who are active contributors.
oh, one of the active contributers is right now writing reply to this thread. sorry to be a bit personal. but first of all don't just asumingly point fingers at just about any one whom you don't really know. and talking about "getting down to keying in some lines of code". I have seen the work of "Dr." Nagarjuna and know him personally. he not only contributes in developing great free software but also contributes socially to fsf by pointing people to the right software for the right task. I personally had this experience. while talking about contributing to gnosys, he may have perhaps remembered me *smile*. so please have a detailed study of a persons work before saying "get down to coding etc".
True, working is more fun.
very true sir. regards. Krishnakant.
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krishnakant Mane -
Nagarjuna G. -
പ്രവീണ്|Praveen