I agree with the list member[s] who say[s] newbies should be treated respectfully.
when i was a [greater] newbie, i had a bad experience on this list, a member was extremely rude to me. so i kept both myself and my suggestions away from the lug-meet that i had written to enquire about. i guess that is what that member wanted, anyway-- someone new is always threatening to the coterie.
re the thread discussion about silly questions: lots of people, esp. from our cultural/educational atmosphere *cannot* absorb knowledge except through a conversation. they simply cannot parse the written word, esp in English-- there is a mental block, otherwise lack of confidence, or simply the necessity to think with the left brain that makes them manual-averse. here, the person is not someone necessarily lazy, stupid or mentally challenged.
Suhit Kelkar.
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 04:40:13PM +0530, Suhit Kelkar wrote:
I agree with the list member[s] who say[s] newbies should be treated respectfully.
when i was a [greater] newbie, i had a bad experience on this list, a member was extremely rude to me. so i kept both myself and my suggestions away from the lug-meet that i had written to enquire about. i guess that is what that member wanted, anyway-- someone new is always threatening to the coterie.
Or perhaps the more experienced members are just tired of answering the same questions again, and again, and again. It's not a threat, it's exhaustion.
You might want to look at the most frequent responders from a few years ago and see how many of them are still active in the field.
Really, we try and help those who have put in an effort. You can send in an email pointing out your goal(s), and what you have already done to achieve those. The LUG is a volunteer group, not a free helpdesk.
re the thread discussion about silly questions: lots of people, esp. from our cultural/educational atmosphere *cannot* absorb knowledge except through a conversation. they simply cannot parse the written
Then perhaps they need to find alternate fora for learning? Email is definitely text based, as is IRC.
word, esp in English-- there is a mental block, otherwise lack of confidence, or simply the necessity to think with the left brain that makes them manual-averse. here, the person is not someone necessarily lazy, stupid or mentally challenged.
However, clearly articulating your thoughts is an important skill. Being clear and exact is important. Telling us what you have done is just as important. If you are not willing to put in the effort to do this, please explain why your respondents should put in effort to help you. We might do it to be nice, but niceness really doesn't scale.
You could very well ask a question in another language, just put up a web page/blog article with your question(s) and send in a link with a note explaining why you are asking your question in that fashion.
Devdas Bhagat
On Friday 20 Feb 2009, Devdas Bhagat wrote:
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 04:40:13PM +0530, Suhit Kelkar wrote: [snip]
re the thread discussion about silly questions: lots of people, esp. from our cultural/educational atmosphere *cannot* absorb knowledge except through a conversation. they simply cannot parse the written
Then perhaps they need to find alternate fora for learning? Email is definitely text based, as is IRC.
I have to agree with Suhit here to some extent: it takes quite some experience to be able to sift through all the links that a search engine gives you to find out the one relevant to /your/ specific problem, and many people just give up. Whereas if you ask on a mailing list then people can interact with you to figure out the precise problem, and offer you a precise solution.
Note, not advocating that everyone throw in every stupid question they can think of here. OTOH, I do agree that for some people a web search isn't really an alternative (their search skills not being up to the mark), and at the very least one can to a point search and throw the result URL back to the OP. I'd do some mild ribbing too, but then a combination of mild ridicule and a hint on how to find the real solution is more likely to make the searcher a good searcher than ridicule by itself :)
Regards,
-- Raju
On Friday 20 February 2009 19:15, Raj Mathur wrote:
On Friday 20 Feb 2009, Devdas Bhagat wrote:
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 04:40:13PM +0530, Suhit Kelkar wrote: [snip]
re the thread discussion about silly questions: lots of people, esp. from our cultural/educational atmosphere *cannot* absorb knowledge except through a conversation. they simply cannot parse the written
Then perhaps they need to find alternate fora for learning? Email is definitely text based, as is IRC.
I have to agree with Suhit here to some extent: it takes quite some experience to be able to sift through all the links that a search engine gives you to find out the one relevant to /your/ specific problem, and many people just give up.
It takes effort, not experience. That is a very important metric to sift out lazy AHs. The ones who give up so easily are best left to sink and helpers can concentrate on the ones really trying. I am subscribed to several other very tech mailing lists. On everyone of these you have 99.9% INDIANS (No i am not being racist) asking the most idiotic and easily answered by google questions. BTW many of those questions are not about linux but fat file systems. Also the ones who did get some non RTFM response with the first post, continue to post in the same vein, without doing their homework. The disease is become pandemic on that list now.
Whereas if you ask on a mailing list then people can interact with you to figure out the precise problem, and offer you a precise solution.
A Mailing list is your fallback, not your first line of defence.
I'd do some mild ribbing too, but then a combination of mild ridicule and a hint on how to find the real solution is more likely to make the searcher a good searcher than ridicule by itself :)
Good for those who can muster the patience. As for me it will be an RTFM post if not worse. BTW one of the oldies on a list replied to a RTFM thus
Hi all, i just procured a copy of Kamasutra. After reading it back to back, i did not find a answer. However i spent several pleasurable hours thereafter. Thanks for recommending THAT manual.
Devdas Bhagat wrote:
However, clearly articulating your thoughts is an important skill. Being clear and exact is important. Telling us what you have done is just as important. If you are not willing to put in the effort to do this, please explain why your respondents should put in effort to help you. We might do it to be nice, but niceness really doesn't scale.
You could very well ask a question in another language, just put up a web page/blog article with your question(s) and send in a link with a note explaining why you are asking your question in that fashion.
No one is denying the need for necessary actions required from people who ask questions but there is a proper way to tell them if they don't. ( I am referring to others' rude responses )
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Devdas Bhagat -
jtd -
Raj Mathur -
Rony -
Suhit Kelkar