25 Dec
2006
25 Dec
'06
7:15 a.m.
Rony wrote:
May I propose a simple assignment for this list?
<snip>
No, you can't.
We must have ILUG-Delhi rule. You have given the idea, you need to
work on it first!
We could create the brochure on the net as a wiki or
some online room
where the project grows and leave the printing to the downloader.
We can spin the globe in reverse direction. Please start the things on LUG wiki.
--
Regards,
----------------------------------------------------------
Kartik Mistry | kartikmistry.org
0xD1028C8D | kartikm.wordpress.com
-----------------------------------------------------------
25 Dec
25 Dec
8:04 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 25-Dec-06, at 12:45 PM, Kartik Mistry wrote:
No, you can't.
We must have ILUG-Delhi rule. You have given the idea, you need to
work on it first!
that ILUG-Delhi rule is the most idiotic rule i have ever come
across. Anyone with half a brain knows that good ideas are hard to
come by. For every hundred ideas suggested, maybe one will be a great
idea and another 4 or 5 worth trying out. So to get a few good ideas,
you need hundreds of useless ones - so you need to encourage
suggestions. If you look at the Delhi mailing list, you find that
every time anyone makes a suggestion, some smartass invokes the rule.
Result - very very few suggestions on Delhi list. We must accept that
not everyone can do everything. Some people may only be able to make
suggestions. No doubt there are a few who do nothing but talk - but
we need to tolerate them in order not to discourage newer people who
would like to make suggestions. A simple example - I am not in
Mumbai, but i give a suggestion for a central meeting place for a
meeting - do you expect me to come to mumbai, arrange the place and
stand at the entrance and welcome participants?
we have a wiki for this lug, and I would have started the page there
if I could log in - doesnt seem to be a screen for creating an
account. List admin - /me needs an account.
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
8:55 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Sometime Today, Kenneth Gonsalves assembled some asciibets to say:
we have a wiki for this lug, and I would have started
the page there
if I could log in - doesnt seem to be a screen for creating an
account. List admin - /me needs an account.
List admin manages the list. Not the wiki. At least I don't, and I
don't know who does. I didn't even know we had a wiki until you just
mentioned it. Then again, the only admin work that I do is check
formatting of the welcome mail. There are other admins that do admin
work.
9:57 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
--- Philip Tellis <philip.tellis(a)gmx.net> wrote:
I didn't even know we had a wiki until you just
mentioned it.
You seem to read only a set of selected (few) posts on
the list. There have been links posted that link to
the wiki.
Anyways, here's the link. Check it out
http://db.glug-bom.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
--
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12:29 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 25-Dec-06, at 2:25 PM, Philip Tellis wrote:
the guy who manages the wiki is also a list admin - my request was
directed to him
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
we have a wiki
for this lug, and I would have started the page
there if I could log in - doesnt seem to be a screen for creating
an account. List admin - /me needs an account.
List admin manages the list. Not the wiki. At least I don't, and
I don't know who does. I didn't even know we had a wiki until you
just mentioned it. Then again, the only admin work that I do is
check formatting of the welcome mail. There are other admins that
do admin work. 
11:33 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
roni,
the idea is really good.
I recall you had suggested me this before.
and for those who like to be rood, may be the person who suggested the
idea may not be a good writer or an author. he may have ment that
"start the document with the help of a good scripter and I will also
put my own experiences." so please at least appreciate the idea if
you really can't do any thing about it. Kenneth gave a very good
example of how one can suggest and essentially may not be able to
implement it. Please don't be rood on the lug without need and
without reason.
I feel as it is most ideas go in air on such lugs. this is one idea
which can really be done properly with the help of good writers and
you can include me in that.
right now I am in delhi and start the work as soon as I come back.
again a very good idea indeed.
Krishnakant.
8:24 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Sometime on Dec 25, krishnakant Mane assembled some asciibets to say:
idea may not be a good writer or an author. he may
have ment that
that's irrelevant. you don't need to be a good writer or author to
start a wiki page. you just have to have the interest to do it. the
point of a wiki is for many people to work on it together, but one
person has to start it.
"start the document with the help of a good
scripter and I will also
put my own experiences." so please at least appreciate the idea if
that's not the way it works. you start the document with no help, and
then tell people that you've started it and ask for contributions.
starting is the hardest part - always. sustaining it is the second
hardest part.
I've been on this lug long enough to know that about 98% of the members
are here only to take and not to give back. Of the remaining, most
contribute by answering questions on the list, and only a handful
actually contribute by writing documentation or code. Rony is one of
these (and I hope his docs are somewhere on the lug site).
26 Dec
26 Dec
4:43 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 26-Dec-06, at 1:54 AM, Philip Tellis wrote:
that's not the way it works. you start the
document with no help,
and then tell people that you've started it and ask for
contributions. starting is the hardest part - always. sustaining
it is the second hardest part.
brochure is started - hardest part over. Now, for the second hardest
part, go here and start typing:
http://db.glug-bom.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_Brochure
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
25 Dec
25 Dec
12:10 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Kartik Mistry wrote:
Rony wrote:
I will provide the matter in text format but I don't have experience in
DTP type of work so there I need the expertise on how to make the page
and how many folds to have and how to position that text. Will post the
text soon. I will also work on the screen shots to give photo examples.
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________
Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. "The New Version is radically easier to use" � The
Wall Street Journal
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
May I propose a simple assignment for this list?
<snip>
No, you can't.
We must have ILUG-Delhi rule. You have given the idea, you need to
work on it first!
We could create the brochure on the net as a wiki
or some online room
where the project grows and leave the printing to the downloader.
We can spin the globe in reverse direction. Please start the things on
LUG wiki.
12:36 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 25-Dec-06, at 5:40 PM, Rony wrote:
content is king - we will do the pdf stuff. I can also help with the
content if i am given access.
<rant>
why cant we be allowed to register on our own
</rant>
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
We can spin
the globe in reverse direction. Please start the
things on LUG wiki.
I will provide the matter in text format but I don't have
experience in DTP type of work so there I need the expertise on how
to make the page and how many folds to have and how to position
that text. Will post the text soon. I will also work on the screen
shots to give photo examples.
12:46 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
--- Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
<rant>
why cant we be allowed to register on our own
</rant>
Read the ILUG-BOM_Wiki_Editing_Guidelines page on the
Wiki. The Note answers your question :)
--
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1:27 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 25-Dec-06, at 6:16 PM, Roshan wrote:
you mean this:
Note : Due to recent spamming of this Wiki by certain unscrupulous
individuals
we have been forced to change new user creation policies. Henceforth,
you will
have to contact a SysOp/Administrator for creation of User ID.
this is a poor excuse, not a reason. There are lakhs of wikis where
one can edit without even logging in. Also lakhs of wikis where
registration is permitted. I administer wikis of both types. In the
first type, I agree that my wiki has a lot of spam - but not
uncontrollable, and not to the extent of shutting down the wiki. In
the second type, a proper registration policy keeps spammers out.
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
<rant>
why cant we be allowed to register on our own
</rant>
Read the ILUG-BOM_Wiki_Editing_Guidelines page on the
Wiki. The Note answers your question :) 
6:50 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Sometime on Monday 25 December 2006 18:57, Kenneth Gonsalves said:
this is a poor excuse, not a reason. There are lakhs
of wikis where
one can edit without even logging in. Also lakhs of wikis where
registration is permitted. I administer wikis of both types. In the
first type, I agree that my wiki has a lot of spam - but not
uncontrollable, and not to the extent of shutting down the wiki. In
the second type, a proper registration policy keeps spammers out.
if someone volunteers to keep the wiki clean then we can have publicly
editable wiki as well, absolutely no problems with that.
Anurag
--
__ __
gnu /noo/ n. Ox like antelope; (abbr.) /gnoo/ n.
(recursive acronym) Gnu's Not Unix.
26 Dec
26 Dec
1:49 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 26-Dec-06, at 12:20 AM, Anurag wrote:
no one person can do this. A wiki has to be as accessible as
possible. This means that there *will* be some spam. And all users
should cooperate in removing spam. Which means educating the users.
It is fairly simple - everytime you look at the wiki, click 'recent
changes', go to anything that looks like spam and revert it.
Educating users is important. We spit on the roads, litter at will
and never clean up anything by nature - i have had numerous instances
of users mailing me saying there is spam on my wiki - but they cant
be bothered, or rather, do not feel the need to clean it up.
a registration policy as mentioned above - and maybe even moderating
the first post by a new user should solve this problem. At the very
least, please put information on the login page detailing the
procedure to be followed to get an account.
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
uncontrollable, and not to the extent of shutting down the wiki. In
the second type, a proper registration policy keeps spammers out.
if someone volunteers to keep the wiki clean then we can have publicly
editable wiki as well, absolutely no problems with that. 
25 Dec
25 Dec
12:57 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
<rant>
why cant we be allowed to register on our own
</rant>
That's because the wiki becomes open to defacing. It's better it stays
that way, unless you are interested in finding out where to buy certain
medications for throwaway prices.
This was noticed within weeks of the wiki going online. That's why
Anurag, Prasanta and I took the call to created login IDs on request only.
--
Regards
Vivek J. Patankar
Registered Linux User #374218
Fedora Core release 6 (Zod)
Linux 2.6.18-1.2798.fc6 x86_64
1:30 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 25-Dec-06, at 6:27 PM, Vivek J. Patankar wrote:
then how does wikipedia manage it? what i do is, first you enter
email id and userid, then you are mailed a link where you can add
password and register. So far, in six months, only one spammer has
got in. What you are giving is not a reason - it is an excuse.
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
<rant>
why cant we be allowed to register on our own
</rant>
That's because the wiki becomes open to defacing. It's better it
stays that way, unless you are interested in finding out where to
buy certain medications for throwaway prices.
This was noticed within weeks of the wiki going online. That's why
Anurag, Prasanta and I took the call to created login IDs on
request only.
1:39 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
--- Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon(a)au-kbc.org> wrote:
then how does wikipedia manage it? what i do is,
first you enter
email id and userid, then you are mailed a link
where you can add
password and register.
Can the Media Wiki can be customized to this type of
registration?
If yes, I guess, the wiki admin can do it.
--
http://houdini-aboutnothing.blogspot.com/
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2 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Roshan wrote:
Can the Media Wiki can be customized to this type of
registration?
If yes, I guess, the wiki admin can do it.
Yes, it can be done. If I remember correct (Anurag, correct me if I'm
wrong), we've tried that too. The spammer just registered with one of
those free email addresses, did his dirty work and left never to return.
The current system works, and please don't upset it. I don't understand
why some people want everything to be their way. Is it that inconvenient
to drop a mail to the list to ask for a login ID?
--
Regards
Vivek J. Patankar
Registered Linux User #374218
Fedora Core release 6 (Zod)
Linux 2.6.18-1.2798.fc6 x86_64
2:40 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 25-Dec-06, at 7:30 PM, Vivek J. Patankar wrote:
The current system works, and please don't upset
it. I don't
understand why some people want everything to be their way. Is it
that inconvenient to drop a mail to the list to ask for a login ID?
this is India - people are lazy. The extra work involved in
requesting for an Id puts people off from contributing. Contributing
is a here and now kind of thing - if it cant be done here and now, it
wont be done
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
2:53 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 25-Dec-06, at 8:10 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
at the very least put a message on the login page asking potential
users to mail the sysadmin for a login - it is now 6 hours or more
since I asked for a login
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
The current
system works, and please don't upset it. I don't
understand why some people want everything to be their way. Is it
that inconvenient to drop a mail to the list to ask for a login ID?
this is India - people are lazy. The extra work involved in
requesting for an Id puts people off from contributing.
Contributing is a here and now kind of thing - if it cant be done
here and now, it wont be done
26 Dec
26 Dec
7:30 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
hi,
Wiki is now open for registrations and requires no approval. Put up your
documentation, tutorials, reviews there. Also please spend some time to just
browse around and help us keep it clean.
Anurag
--
__ __
gnu /noo/ n. Ox like antelope; (abbr.) /gnoo/ n.
(recursive acronym) Gnu's Not Unix.
25 Dec
25 Dec
2:01 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 25-Dec-06, at 7:09 PM, Roshan wrote:
last i heard, media wiki was open source - so the source code is
available and it should not be a big deal to do this. And dont ask me
to volunteer as I know zilch about php.
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
where you can
add
password and register.
Can the Media Wiki can be customized to this type of
registration?
If yes, I guess, the wiki admin can do it.
1:52 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
then how does wikipedia manage it? what i do is, first
you enter email
id and userid, then you are mailed a link where you can add password and
register. So far, in six months, only one spammer has got in. What you
are giving is not a reason - it is an excuse.
Wikipedia has hundreds of contributors who help out in content
development and cleanups. Any spammer activity is noticed within hours
and cleaned up. Spammers look for lesser known wikis where changes are
less and change logs are examined less frequently.
The wiki has a few edits a month. Contributions come from lesser known
players and are infrequent. It doesn't make sense to keep it open when
contributions come from a handful of people. Also, I am yet to see a
contribution from the so called "gurus" of this list. Give us a helping
hand and keep it active. Assist in the monitoring of changes and we'll
open it up.
And now in the long standing tradition of this list, Flame on.
--
Regards
Vivek J. Patankar
Registered Linux User #374218
Fedora Core release 6 (Zod)
Linux 2.6.18-1.2798.fc6 x86_64
1:57 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
--- "Vivek J. Patankar" wrote:
Give us a helping hand and keep it active. Assist in
the monitoring of changes and we'll open it up.
++1.
I have been constantly editing the wiki. Atleast for
the last few days.
--
http://houdini-aboutnothing.blogspot.com/
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2:09 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 25-Dec-06, at 7:22 PM, Vivek J. Patankar wrote:
contribution from the so called "gurus" of
this list. Give us a
helping hand and keep it active. Assist in the monitoring of
changes and we'll open it up.
i personally always check recent changes of any wiki i enter (small
ones) and clean spam that i see. But i made a request for a login at
least 6 hours ago, but still havent got one. I do agree with you that
if users are few, spam cleaning does not take place. But if you dont
allow users in even when they beg, how do you get more users?
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
2:12 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
i personally always check recent changes of any wiki i
enter (small
ones) and clean spam that i see. But i made a request for a login at
least 6 hours ago, but still havent got one. I do agree with you that if
users are few, spam cleaning does not take place. But if you dont allow
users in even when they beg, how do you get more users?
And to whom did you send the request? I never received one.
So far whenever a request has been made, the requester has sent the mail
to all three admins. Who ever reads it first does it. I never
received a request.
--
Regards
Vivek J. Patankar
Registered Linux User #374218
Fedora Core release 6 (Zod)
Linux 2.6.18-1.2798.fc6 x86_64
2:39 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 25-Dec-06, at 7:42 PM, Vivek J. Patankar wrote:
And to whom did you send the request? I never received one.
So far whenever a request has been made, the requester has sent the
mail to all three admins. Who ever reads it first does it. I
never received a request.
i put the request on this list - you *do* read this list? or do i
need to fill in a form in triplicate?
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
3:15 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On 25-Dec-06, at 7:42 PM, Vivek J. Patankar wrote:
In triplicate and attested by a class 1 gazetted officer. Also mail me
scans of your age proof and proof of residence.
You should have made a request in a separate thread. As is usual in a
mailing list, not everybody reads all posts, only what they feel is
relevant. Let's close this matter here. I'll be mailing you your user ID
and password offlist.
--
Regards
Vivek J. Patankar
Registered Linux User #374218
Fedora Core release 6 (Zod)
Linux 2.6.18-1.2798.fc6 x86_64
And to whom did you send the request? I never received one.
So far whenever a request has been made, the requester has sent the
mail to all three admins. Who ever reads it first does it. I never
received a request.
i put the request on this list - you *do* read this list? or do i need
to fill in a form in triplicate?
8:47 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Sometime on Dec 25, Vivek J. Patankar assembled some asciibets to say:
contributions come from a handful of people. Also, I
am yet to see a
contribution from the so called "gurus" of this list. Give us a
Define guru. IAC, there are a whole bunch of docs here:
http://db.ilug-bom.org.in/lug-authors/
7 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Sometime on Monday 25 December 2006 19:00, Kenneth Gonsalves said:
then how does wikipedia manage it? what i do is, first
you enter
email id and userid, then you are mailed a link where you can add
password and register. So far, in six months, only one spammer has
got in. What you are giving is not a reason - it is an excuse.
We had atleast half a dozen such registrations from viagra salesmen within a
very short span. Vivek used to promptly clean it regularly, but it started
becoming too much of a work. As i said, if some members can regulary just
browse through the wiki then we wouldnt need such strict registration
requirements.
Anurag
--
__ __
gnu /noo/ n. Ox like antelope; (abbr.) /gnoo/ n.
(recursive acronym) Gnu's Not Unix.
26 Dec
26 Dec
1:50 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 26-Dec-06, at 12:30 AM, Anurag wrote:
We had atleast half a dozen such registrations from
viagra salesmen
within a
very short span.
prevent bot registration
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
1:57 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 26-Dec-06, at 7:20 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
or use captchas
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
We had atleast
half a dozen such registrations from viagra
salesmen within a
very short span.
prevent bot registration
1:27 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 26-Dec-06, at 4:30 PM, Dinesh Joshi wrote:
bots are lazy
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
or use
captchas
which are pretty easy to break if not complicated enough.
1:31 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
--- Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
bots are lazy
Only if they are programmed in that manner? Or are
slow to do anything at all?
[OT]
Thanks to Rony's Idea, and your inauguration, the page
has seen already 72 hits today, and is being updated
more frequently than any page on the wiki. I hope this
is not just a surge, and the wiki will be updated at
some corner everyday, but by a user, not a bot! ;)
[/OT]
--
FSF-India Fellow Associate
http://www.gnu.org.in
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27 Dec
27 Dec
1:52 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 26-Dec-06, at 8:24 PM, Dinesh Joshi wrote:
With the kind of spam on Invision Board, VBulletin and phpBB forums I
beg to differ.
php apps?
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
which are pretty easy to break if not complicated
enough.
bots are lazy
6:22 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Sometime on Wednesday 27 December 2006 07:22, Kenneth Gonsalves said:
php apps?
Are the b0ts selective about programming language used?
Anurag
--
__ __
gnu /noo/ n. Ox like antelope; (abbr.) /gnoo/ n.
(recursive acronym) Gnu's Not Unix.
bots are lazy
With the kind of spam on Invision Board, VBulletin and phpBB forums I
beg to differ.
6:54 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 27-Dec-06, at 11:52 AM, Anurag wrote:
yep - programmed bots are programmed to hit specific apps - drupal
bots for drupal, etc etc
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
php apps?
Are the b0ts selective about programming language used?
1:55 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Hello All,
There has been a lot of contribution to the article by
the list members. I would personally, request them to
take some more time and create their user pages, so
that we could use the talk pages for communication.
However, if the list members feel, that the mailing
list is best for communication / discussion regarding
the article, no problems! :)
--
FSF-India Fellow Associate
http://www.gnu.org.in
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6:05 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Ok. flame wars, I don't care. But, using GNU/Linux and then pointing to only
the GNU's view of the matter is very partial.
Consider the fact that if you're talking to normal users, you're looking at a
desktop system, which typically means Xorg, KDE, Mozilla etc. So I wouldn't
use GNU/Linux there, because that is NOT a GNU operating system. Its a Free
and Open Source operating system, which is NOT equivalent to only GNU. That's
rubbish.
I have a better solution. Avoid this war entirely and simply use the words "A
Linux based Distribution". It could apply to "A FreeBSD based Distribution"
too.
--
----------------------------------------
Mrugesh Karnik
GPG Key 0xBA6F1DA8
Public key on http://wwwkeys.pgp.net
----------------------------------------
6:26 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
--- Mrugesh Karnik <mrugeshkarnik(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I have a better solution. Avoid this war entirely
and simply use the words "A
Linux based Distribution". It could apply to "A
FreeBSD based Distribution"
too.
Agreed. But, considering the fact, that most of the
distros (under consideration in the wiki) have maximum
GPLed software, prefixing it GNU, wouldn't be wrong?
Would it be?
Disclaimer
NOTE: I'm not being a fanatic, or forcing GNU over it.
It is only a question.
--
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6:56 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Wednesday 27 December 2006 23:56, Roshan wrote:
--- Mrugesh Karnik <mrugeshkarnik(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Mentioning that the software uses the GNU GPL license is way different than
saying that its a GNU software. I believe that only the software that's
developed directly by the GNU project should be called GNU software. Since
we're talking of the desktop, which might be dominated by software that is
not GNU software, it is wrong to simply term the whole distro to be a GNU
operating system.
Another point is, if you're linking to a GNU page explaining why it should be
GNU/Linux, why not also link to a page that argues otherwise? If such a page
does not exist, create one yourself. If you can't, don't link to the GNU
page. In essence, don't cause this war. Give credit where it is due. If
you're talking to some user working on the shell, of course it is to be
mentioned that it is the GNU bash shell. Why would you force the term `GNU'
where non-GNU software will be used in majority?
--
----------------------------------------
Mrugesh Karnik
GPG Key 0xBA6F1DA8
Public key on http://wwwkeys.pgp.net
----------------------------------------
I have a better solution. Avoid this war
entirely
and simply use the words "A
Linux based Distribution". It could apply to "A
FreeBSD based Distribution"
too.
Agreed. But, considering the fact, that most of the
distros (under consideration in the wiki) have maximum
GPLed software, prefixing it GNU, wouldn't be wrong?
Would it be?
Disclaimer
NOTE: I'm not being a fanatic, or forcing GNU over it.
It is only a question.
7:14 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Mrugesh Karnik wrote:
On Wednesday 27 December 2006 23:56, Roshan wrote:
Guys keep it simple. Windows users who are victims of software piracy do
not read licences.
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________
All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of
use." - PC Magazine
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
--- Mrugesh Karnik
<mrugeshkarnik(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Mentioning that the software uses the GNU GPL license is way different than
saying that its a GNU software. I believe that only the software that's
developed directly by the GNU project should be called GNU software. Since
we're talking of the desktop, which might be dominated by software that is
not GNU software, it is wrong to simply term the whole distro to be a GNU
operating system.
Another point is, if you're linking to a GNU page explaining why it should be
GNU/Linux, why not also link to a page that argues otherwise? If such a page
does not exist, create one yourself. If you can't, don't link to the GNU
page. In essence, don't cause this war. Give credit where it is due. If
you're talking to some user working on the shell, of course it is to be
mentioned that it is the GNU bash shell. Why would you force the term `GNU'
where non-GNU software will be used in majority?
I have a better solution. Avoid this war
entirely
and simply use the words "A
Linux based Distribution". It could apply to "A
FreeBSD based Distribution"
too.
Agreed. But, considering the fact, that most of the
distros (under consideration in the wiki) have maximum
GPLed software, prefixing it GNU, wouldn't be wrong?
Would it be?
Disclaimer
NOTE: I'm not being a fanatic, or forcing GNU over it.
It is only a question.
28 Dec
28 Dec
5:05 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
hello,
can some one kindly give me the link to the already existing article?
by the way I had been a reporter few years back so I may as well
change the lingo a bit or may be present a few points mentioned by all
the colligues on this list in a different way.
I think the newbees and common (home/ office users ) is the main target?
servers need not go on a priority because many if not all admins are
these days aware of gnu/linux. it should be done but desktop needs
priority.
further more I think we stick to call it gnulinux instead of only gnu
or only linux.
we still use a lot of gnu toolchain even when we are using the gnome
or kde or what ever desktop.
and I think we must not expose the new user to this arguement else it
will not speak good for the progress of free and open source software.
one more point which time and time again comes from users is that "why
would such a powerful, stable, virus free and all comprehencive system
come for free along with all needed software?" this point needs some
serious consideration and for those who base their business on free
software it becomes even more important that people who could be
possible clients realise that they must pay for the software.
and when we talk about 4 freedoms, we also need to properly elaborate
on the point that gnu/linux gives complete transparent environment for
working.
we know why it is secured and why virus free and if we are not
programmers (dare not use the word hackares in front of common man),
we can hire other programmers to get the system customised. also
worth mentioning is the fact that when we read a non-free software
license we read "this license gives permission to use not own " that
is the bottom line. here you like all other users are non-exclusive
owners of the software because software re-use and distribution is
your birth right just like gaining knowledge.
put a couple of case study examples. I can put my own live example
when I desired that my client excepts the software to work on linux
kernel so that he could get what he wanted.
I think once people read the document half way through they probably
get the idea of the power. it is then that above mentioned questions
regarding cost, or freedom etc come in the customer's mind.
remember there is a common psychology, "if it is cheep as in cost it
will be cheep as in quality".
this needs to be cleared out.
regards.
Krishnakant.
3:03 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 27-Dec-06, at 11:56 PM, Roshan wrote:
Agreed. But, considering the fact, that most of the
distros (under consideration in the wiki) have maximum
GPLed software,
they dont
prefixing it GNU, wouldn't be wrong?
Would it be?
as i have mentioned elsewhere a machine with only gpl'd software
would be gNoUse
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
3:03 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
--- Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
as i have mentioned elsewhere a machine with only
gpl'd software
would be gNoUse
seems gNoUse (GNewSense GNU/Linux) is an absolute
Ubuntu Linux Clone omitting Proprietary apps. Is it?
--
FSF-India Fellow Associate
http://www.gnu.org.in
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3:22 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 12/28/06, Roshan <d_rosh2001(a)yahoo.co.in> wrote:
seems gNoUse (GNewSense GNU/Linux) is an absolute
Ubuntu Linux Clone omitting Proprietary apps. Is it?
AFAIK zlib is not GPLed,
neither is X.org, apache, python, php... the
list goes on.
Regards,
--
Siddhesh Poyarekar
http://siddhesh.tk
10:23 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 28-Dec-06, at 8:33 AM, Roshan wrote:
seems gNoUse (GNewSense GNU/Linux) is an absolute
Ubuntu Linux Clone omitting Proprietary apps. Is it?
and all non GPLed apps
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
27 Dec
27 Dec
6:32 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Ok. Apparently, I have a few comments rather than one or two, for which I've
already sent two different emails...
<quote>
Customise - All code is available for reuse
</quote>
The typical end user couldn't care less. Use KDE as an example. Windows simply
does not offer you that kind of control, that easily. For example, no need to
install 3rd party non-free (cost wise) software just to install themes.
Choice is an important point. With Windows, the user is stuck to the default
interface. In Linux we have GNOME, KDE, XFCE as Desktop Environments that are
different and offer choice. Plus the various Window Managers. E17 - do not
forget about it. It rocks.
<quote>
Platform Indpendence - Runs on Intel x86, ARM, Alpha, Sparc, Mips, SH, Sharc,
Power Omap and many other architectures.
</quote>
Would I really care, as an end user? I'd only worry about Intel x86 and AMD64
in most cases.
Hmm. Many devices work out of the box. For example, just plug in your Sony
Ericsson mobile phone and it works! No extra software to install, no drivers
needed.
<quote>
Security - secure by virtue of being a multiuser multitasking networked system
by design. One of the spinoffs is that GNU/Linux is essentially virus free
</quote>
Add spyware. Major concern these days. This also means no installation of 3rd
party software.
Also, no need to use pirated software or cracks. Nearly everything is free as
in cost and legitimate.
Also mention the fact that when you install a Linux Distro, all the software
is installed, instead of having to install it manually. Huge plus.
Software installation can be a plus. No need to hunt various sites for
software downloads. Just open some GUI and look for the software you want and
click install. Automatically downloaded and installed. Quite likeable.
The LiveCDs are loved, trust me. Newbies love the ability to pop in a cd and
check out software without having to install it. The point should be moved
higher up the order.
Whom exactly is this document aimed at? Newbies? I would guess so. Please bear
in mind the target audience before writing. I would rather split up the
document for Desktops and Servers.
You forgot to mention the features that certain apps offer that aren't
available in Windows, for example Amarok, superkaramba... And Beryl!
--
----------------------------------------
Mrugesh Karnik
GPG Key 0xBA6F1DA8
Public key on http://wwwkeys.pgp.net
----------------------------------------
6:39 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
--- Mrugesh Karnik <mrugeshkarnik(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Ok. Apparently, I have a few comments rather than
one or two, for which I've
already sent two different emails...
<removed comments>
Hey dude, you have a Wiki Account. Go ahead and edit
the article, in such a way, that the current and the
new content is acceptable, to the least, to all the
GLUG-BOM wikipedians.
--
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http://www.gnu.org.in
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7 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Thursday 28 December 2006 00:09, Roshan wrote:
Hey dude, you have a Wiki Account. Go ahead and edit
the article, in such a way, that the current and the
new content is acceptable, to the least, to all the
GLUG-BOM wikipedians.
No, thank you. The appearance of GNU/Linux and the partiality associated with
that section has put me off. Seems like these fanatics care more about the
word GNU than its meaning these days.
P.S. I don't know who wrote that. If the person finds this comment offencive,
I don't care.
--
----------------------------------------
Mrugesh Karnik
GPG Key 0xBA6F1DA8
Public key on http://wwwkeys.pgp.net
----------------------------------------
7:16 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Mrugesh Karnik wrote:
On Thursday 28 December 2006 00:09, Roshan wrote:
OK no flames, Have mercy on me. :-D
Regards,
Rony.
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Hey dude, you have a Wiki Account. Go ahead and
edit
the article, in such a way, that the current and the
new content is acceptable, to the least, to all the
GLUG-BOM wikipedians.
No, thank you. The appearance of GNU/Linux and the partiality associated with
that section has put me off. Seems like these fanatics care more about the
word GNU than its meaning these days.
P.S. I don't know who wrote that. If the person finds this comment offencive,
I don't care.
28 Dec
28 Dec
8:41 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Thursday 28 December 2006 00:30, Mrugesh Karnik wrote:
On Thursday 28 December 2006 00:09, Roshan wrote:
No, thank you. The appearance of GNU/Linux and the
partiality
associated with that section has put me off. Seems like these
fanatics care more about the word GNU than its meaning these days.
P.S. I don't know who wrote that. If the person finds this comment
offencive, I don't care.
I wrote the comment. If u dont care shut up. If u do either way read
the mail archives and talk logic rather than name calling. Name
calling tends to show up as a very neuron defecient head.
The wiki clearly states that all other characteristics exist as a
spinoff of freedom. And the FSF and RMS in particular has had the
foresight and moral strength to fight when most others would like to
pretend otherwise.
Apache, X, and others do not focuss on this aspect (and they need not
too) because others are doing that job. We too are doing our bit in
the same vein. Are we trying to denigrate the others - most certainly
not. I fail to see how focussing on freedom as per the GNU manifesto
in anyway detracts from ANY contibutor to the FOSS universe.
Having read the urls someone will form an opinion - for, against or
dontcare - which is better than forming an opinion without knowing
the basis for his opinions.
--
Rgds
JTD
3:06 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Thursday 28 December 2006 14:11, jtd wrote:
On Thursday 28 December 2006 00:30, Mrugesh Karnik
wrote:
Yes. It's a fact. Read what I've said time and time again on the list. The
first thing I always tell any newbie is regarding freedom. I tell them what
is FOSS and what freedom stands for. Read the link to my blog post I've
provided in the email "Linux Brochure - Short Version". Read what I've said
at the bottom and then dig up my neuron deficiencies. I tell people the
importance of GNU. But I do not take sides. I am neither a Linux nor a
GNU/Linux fanatic. What is right is right. I think Linus is wrong to make
comments such as "Go write your own kernel" and RMS is wrong to use the
words "GNU/Linux".
In that same email, I've specified my view about GNU/Linux. Read it up. I hear
that the term GNU/Linux is used to portray the importance of freedom. Would
you rather not use FOSS/Linux then? A Free and Open Source Operating System
atop the Linux kernel. Doesn't that sound more appropriate? Aren't the other
components of the system Free too? Sure, they do not focus on the aspect, GNU
does, but in the end, they ARE free and they're not GNU software. That's my
point.
On Thursday 28 December 2006 00:09, Roshan
wrote:
No, thank you. The appearance of GNU/Linux and the partiality
associated with that section has put me off. Seems like these
fanatics care more about the word GNU than its meaning these days.
P.S. I don't know who wrote that. If the person finds this comment
offencive, I don't care.
I wrote the comment. If u dont care shut up. If u do either way read
the mail archives and talk logic rather than name calling. Name
calling tends to show up as a very neuron defecient head.
The wiki clearly states that all other characteristics exist as a
spinoff of freedom. And the FSF and RMS in particular has had the
foresight and moral strength to fight when most others would like to
pretend otherwise. Apache, X, and others do not focuss on this aspect
(and they need not
too) because others are doing that job. We too are doing our bit in
the same vein.
Right. I do my part too.
Are we trying to denigrate the others - most certainly
not. I fail to see how focussing on freedom as per the GNU manifesto
in anyway detracts from ANY contibutor to the FOSS universe.
Having read the urls someone will form an opinion - for, against or
dontcare - which is better than forming an opinion without knowing
the basis for his opinions.
Exactly. I see the URL pointing to GNU's opinion. Where's the opinion of the
people who disagree with the term GNU/Linux? If the content you put up leads
people to form an opinion, shouldn't you present both sides of the argument?
--
----------------------------------------
Mrugesh Karnik
GPG Key 0xBA6F1DA8
Public key on http://wwwkeys.pgp.net
----------------------------------------
29 Dec
29 Dec
2:17 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 28-Dec-06, at 8:36 PM, Mrugesh Karnik wrote:
ok - done. http://db.glug-bom.org/wiki/index.php/
Linux_Brochure_Quick_Guide#What_is_Linux.3F. Now please come back and
add your valuable inputs to the brochure. You are one of the few
people in this list with genuine artistic talents, and we need you to
get the best possible results.
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
Having read
the urls someone will form an opinion - for, against or
dontcare - which is better than forming an opinion without knowing
the basis for his opinions.
Exactly. I see the URL pointing to GNU's opinion. Where's the
opinion of the
people who disagree with the term GNU/Linux? If the content you put
up leads
people to form an opinion, shouldn't you present both sides of the
argument? 
5:27 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
What is right is right. I think Linus is wrong to make
comments such as "Go write your own kernel"
i agree with you there.
Exactly. I see the URL pointing to GNU's opinion.
Where's the opinion of
the
people who disagree with the term GNU/Linux? If the content you put up
leads
people to form an opinion, shouldn't you present both sides of the
argument?
also true. Giving freedom implies giving perspectives. i have to point out
though that GNU does make a clear distinction between those who are in it
just for $$$, or technically great software and those who are in it for
freedom.
Regards,
- vihan
7:31 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Thursday 28 December 2006 20:36, Mrugesh Karnik wrote:
Except labeling people as fanatics.
Why cant u do that?
The fact as it stands in today's world is that the freedom message is
being diluted and hidden all the while. In many cases actively
subverted. Linux and the entire FOSS ecosystem has flourished because
of the GPL and it's staunch defendants. All the others would have
been academic curiosities, milked for their freebie technology and
ditched at the first opportunity.
Just count the number (never mind usefullness) of libre software
developed exclusively on a non-free platform.
--
Rgds
JTD
On Thursday 28 December 2006 14:11, jtd wrote:
> On Thursday 28 December 2006 00:30, Mrugesh Karnik wrote:
> > On Thursday 28 December 2006 00:09, Roshan wrote:
In that same email, I've specified my view about GNU/Linux. Read it
up. I hear that the term GNU/Linux is used to portray the
importance of freedom. Would you rather not use FOSS/Linux then? A
Free and Open Source Operating System atop the Linux kernel.
Doesn't that sound more appropriate? Aren't the other components of
the system Free too? Sure, they do not focus on the aspect, GNU
does, but in the end, they ARE free and they're not GNU software.
That's my point.
when u say GNU/Linux u are not pointing to software (GNU or
otherwise). U are pointing to the importance of freedom.
When u say open source u mean the source is open but not neccessarily
free. Which is something different and is nicely exploited by M$
saying that their shared source is open.
Apache, X, and
others do not focuss on this aspect (and they need
not too) because others are doing that job. We too are doing our
bit in the same vein.
Right. I do my part too. Are we trying
to denigrate the others - most certainly
not. I fail to see how focussing on freedom as per the GNU
manifesto in anyway detracts from ANY contibutor to the FOSS
universe. Having read the urls someone will form an opinion -
for, against or dontcare - which is better than forming an
opinion without knowing the basis for his opinions.
Exactly. I see the URL pointing to GNU's opinion. Where's the
opinion of the people who disagree with the term GNU/Linux? If the
content you put up leads people to form an opinion, shouldn't you
present both sides of the argument?
7:50 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 29-Dec-06, at 1:01 PM, jtd wrote:
subverted. Linux and the entire FOSS ecosystem has
flourished because
of the GPL and it's staunch defendants. All the others would have
been academic curiosities, milked for their freebie technology and
ditched at the first opportunity.
i seriously doubt this - GPL is just one strand in the web - a big
important one, but nonetheless one of many
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
8:09 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Friday 29 December 2006 13:20, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On 29-Dec-06, at 1:01 PM, jtd wrote:
Indeed it is so now. And it is a matter of joy that non gpld libre
software (software which permits reuse without a financial costs for
any purpose u choose) are doing well. But are the dangers over? Most
definetly no. If anything u have organisations with enormous
resources, working very hard to subvert the gpl and the opensourcers
playing right into their hands.
Mono is a case in point. 3 yrs ago everyone thought why not. After the
Microvell deal only an insane person would use it.
--
Rgds
JTD
subverted. Linux and the entire FOSS ecosystem
has flourished
because of the GPL and it's staunch defendants. All the others
would have been academic curiosities, milked for their freebie
technology and ditched at the first opportunity.
i seriously doubt this - GPL is just one strand in the web - a big
important one, but nonetheless one of many
8:25 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Mono is a case in point. 3 yrs ago everyone thought
why not. After the
Microvell deal only an insane person would use it.
Question : How would the Microvell impact Mono in particular, even though it
is GPL? This is a genuine curiosity, not an argument :-)
Regards,
- vihan
9:15 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Friday 29 December 2006 13:55, Vihan Pandey wrote:
The GPL v2 does not explicitly require assignment of patented
technology to a sublicencee for further downstream distribution.
So Patent holder licences patent to U the developer for development
and use of code based on patent. U develops gpld software and
distributes to Me. I can use it as per the gpl. I develop some more
and distribute my code to lugger. Lugger cant use - he has not
recieved patent rights cause i have no rights to reditribute the
patented tech. I have only rights to use. Patent holder cant sue me.
He can sue lugger. So lugger has to get licence from patent holder or
cease and desist.
--
Rgds
JTD
Mono is a case
in point. 3 yrs ago everyone thought why not.
After the Microvell deal only an insane person would use it.
Question : How would the Microvell impact Mono in particular, even
though it is GPL? This is a genuine curiosity, not an argument :-)
9:45 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 29-Dec-06, at 1:39 PM, jtd wrote:
any purpose u choose) are doing well. But are the
dangers over? Most
definetly no. If anything u have organisations with enormous
resources, working very hard to subvert the gpl and the opensourcers
playing right into their hands.
Mono is a case in point. 3 yrs ago everyone thought why not. After the
Microvell deal only an insane person would use it.
even three years ago, many people were dubious about mono -
especially as against dotgnu as they felt the developmental model was
not true foss. The developmental model is as important as the license
if not more. Compare mysql and postgresql and you will see the
difference. Mysql is dual licensed and GPL - postgres is bsd. Mysql
only uses hired developers and the development path is determined by
the company. Postgres uses huge number of developers, dont know if
any are paid, and the development path is decided by a meritocracy. I
wouldnt put any money at all on Mysql not going proprietary or
collapsing or selling out any day. Ditto for any sun project released
under GPL. Far more important than the license is the development
model. Just because the source is released, it doesnt imply that the
software is truly foss. In short there is foss and FOSS. The more a
project follows the bazaar model of development, the more viable it
is going to be.
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
10:28 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Friday 29 December 2006 15:15, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
The developmental model is as important as the
license
if not more. Compare mysql and postgresql and you will see the
difference. Mysql is dual licensed and GPL - postgres is bsd. Mysql
only uses hired developers and the development path is determined by
the company.
I see the introduction of mysql and mysql-community packages in portage. Looks
like a change is underway.
--
----------------------------------------
Mrugesh Karnik
GPG Key 0xBA6F1DA8
Public key on http://wwwkeys.pgp.net
----------------------------------------
11:27 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 29-Dec-06, at 3:58 PM, Mrugesh Karnik wrote:
are they taking patches from non-employees now?
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
only uses
hired developers and the development path is determined by
the company.
I see the introduction of mysql and mysql-community packages in
portage. Looks
like a change is underway. 
9:31 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 12/29/06, jtd <jtd(a)mtnl.net.in> wrote:
The fact as it stands in today's world is that the
freedom message is
being diluted and hidden all the while. In many cases actively
subverted. Linux and the entire FOSS ecosystem has flourished because
of the GPL and it's staunch defendants. All the others would have
been academic curiosities, milked for their freebie technology and
ditched at the first opportunity.
Just count the number (never mind usefullness) of libre software
developed exclusively on a non-free platform.
I think GNU is an important part of the FOSS ecosystem. What
irritates me is that GNU fanatics (Def: excessive or overweening devotion
to a cause or belief. Fanatic further implies unbalanced or
obsessive behavior) berate other FOSS programs and spout FUD.
BSD predated the GPL and has made important contributions to
the FOSS ecosystems like vi and the C shell.
Also it is not an academic curiosity. BSD is widely used and supported
by a lot of organisation. In fact some of the ideas for the "GNU system"
have come from the BSD world.
-- Vinayak
10 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Friday 29 December 2006 15:01, Vinayak Hegde wrote:
.
> Just count the number (never mind usefullness) of
libre software
> developed exclusively on a non-free platform.
berate other FOSS programs and spout FUD.
At no point in this entire thread has anyone berated any other
software. the only berating was by Murgesh.
BSD predated the GPL and has made important
contributions to the
FOSS ecosystems like vi and the C shell.
Also it is not an academic curiosity. BSD is widely used and
supported by a lot of organisation. In fact some of the ideas for
the "GNU system" have come from the BSD world.
It has. So put in a few lines and links about BSD in the wiki rather
than ranting about it.
--
Rgds
JTD
10:09 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Friday 29 December 2006 15:30, jtd wrote:
On Friday 29 December 2006 15:01, Vinayak Hegde
wrote:
.
At no point in this entire thread has anyone berated any other
software. the only berating was by Murgesh.
Sorry that should have been Mrugesh ;-)
--
Rgds
JTD
Just
count the number (never mind usefullness) of libre
software developed exclusively on a non-free platform.
berate other FOSS programs and spout FUD.
10:34 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Friday 29 December 2006 15:39, jtd wrote:
On Friday 29 December 2006 15:30, jtd wrote:
Oh duh. My pretty name messed up.. again! :(
And I guess I should congratulate myself on winning the Nobel prize.
And then again, I call fanaticism just that.. fanaticism. Maybe people would
be wise to do some self examination.
Let me say another thing. If someone takes up the point of calling me a
fanatic because of my opposition to GNU/Linux, read my email again. It tells
you that I do not wish my content to be used where GNU/Linux appears
improperly, but I do not stop you. You're allowed to use it whichever way
you'd like to.
--
----------------------------------------
Mrugesh Karnik
GPG Key 0xBA6F1DA8
Public key on http://wwwkeys.pgp.net
----------------------------------------
On Friday 29 December 2006 15:01, Vinayak Hegde
wrote:
.
At no point in this entire thread has anyone berated any other
software. the only berating was by Murgesh.
Sorry that should have been Mrugesh ;-) Just
count the number (never mind usefullness) of libre
software developed exclusively on a non-free platform.
berate other FOSS programs and spout FUD.
11:28 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 29-Dec-06, at 4:04 PM, Mrugesh Karnik wrote:
Let me say another thing. If someone takes up the
point of calling
me a
fanatic because of my opposition to GNU/Linux, read my email again.
It tells
you that I do not wish my content to be used where GNU/Linux appears
improperly, but I do not stop you. You're allowed to use it
whichever way
you'd like to.
please bring it back to the wiki - name it short-brochure-another-
version or something
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
10:44 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 12/29/06, jtd <jtd(a)mtnl.net.in> wrote:
There is no need to attack people when proven wrong. If you go back
and read your own posts in this thread with a cool head, you will see
that you are belittling all other nonGPLed FOSS software as academic
curiosities. I am not ranting and I cannot contribute this snippet to the
Linux brochure as it is about Linux and not about BSD.
-- Vinayak
BSD predated
the GPL and has made important contributions to the
FOSS ecosystems like vi and the C shell.
Also it is not an academic curiosity. BSD is widely used and
supported by a lot of organisation. In fact some of the ideas for
the "GNU system" have come from the BSD world.
It has. So put in a few lines and links about BSD in the wiki rather
than ranting about it.
11 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 29-Dec-06, at 4:14 PM, Vinayak Hegde wrote:
curiosities. I am not ranting and I cannot contribute
this snippet
to the
Linux brochure as it is about Linux and not about BSD.
that is because you have not added the bsd part
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
12:15 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Friday 29 December 2006 16:14, Vinayak Hegde wrote:
There is no need to attack people when proven wrong. If you go back
and read your own posts in this thread with a cool head, you will
see that you are belittling all other nonGPLed FOSS software as
academic curiosities.
Not at all. IF the FSF had not done what it did, THEN the others would
have been history.
As for BSD inspite of having all the advantages that they did a full 4
years ahead of linux they have (mostly) fallen behind.
On 12/29/06, jtd <jtd(a)mtnl.net.in> wrote:
> > BSD predated the GPL
Afaik FSF was started in 1983 and the first BSD on 386 was released in
86. And FBSD much later.
and has made important contributions to
the FOSS ecosystems like vi and the C shell.
Also it is not an academic curiosity. BSD is widely used and
supported by a lot of organisation. In fact some of the ideas
for the "GNU system" have come from the BSD world.
It has. So put in a few lines and links about BSD in the wiki
rather than ranting about it. I am not ranting and I cannot contribute this
snippet to the Linux brochure as it is about Linux and not about
BSD.
U can add a section other Free and open OSs and link to another wiki
page. KG has already suggested that.
--
Rgds
JTD
12:58 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Hello all,
An alternate brochure has been added to the wiki, which doesn't speak
much technically but is addressed the way we speak to people when
talking about Linux and FOSS.
http://db.ilug-bom.org.in/wiki/index.php/Linux_Brochure_Alternate#Comments
Mrugesh's alternate brochure, which he had posted up in his blog (
http://floyd-n-milan.blogspot.com/2006/12/linux-brochure-short-version.html
), has been added to this. I have also added my own words in the comment
portion of this. I hope more people can add their thoughts, especially
some one about BSD, in a similar tone as ours.
This is not any thing we propose against the original brochure, but
another alternate version, which is more like how we talk to people.
Thats all! We welcome all comments regarding the same and also some more
additional points which we might have missed.
--
With Regards
Parthan (TechnoFreak)
. A Proud GNU/Linux User and Ubuntero
.0.
..0 [Web] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Parthan
000 [Blog]http://technofreakatchennai.wordpress.com
3 Jan
3 Jan
3:36 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 12/29/06, jtd <jtd(a)mtnl.net.in> wrote:
Not at all. IF the FSF had not done what it did, THEN
the others would
have been history.
As for BSD inspite of having all the advantages that they did a full 4
years ahead of linux they have (mostly) fallen behind.
There are other reasons for BSD falling behind. The major reason being
the lawsuit. Linus has gone on record saying that he wuld never have
developed on Linux were it not for the lawsuit. You need to get your
facts right. Also till the recent past (about 2-3 years), Freebsd was
neck-to-neck with Linux in terms of technology.
-- Vinayak
4:47 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 03-Jan-07, at 9:06 AM, Vinayak Hegde wrote:
There are other reasons for BSD falling behind. The
major reason being
the lawsuit. Linus has gone on record saying that he wuld never have
developed on Linux were it not for the lawsuit.
what lawsuit - how did it affect things?
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
5:01 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 1/3/07, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon(a)au-kbc.org> wrote:
what lawsuit - how did it affect things?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USL_v._BSDi
Linus and Alan Cox have both said that they would be working on
BSD rather than Linux if there were no lawsuit at a critical time.
You can google for "BSD lawsuit" for more references and quotes.
-- Vinayak
5:52 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Wednesday 03 January 2007 09:06, Vinayak Hegde wrote:
On 12/29/06, jtd <jtd(a)mtnl.net.in> wrote:
The case was filed in 90. And settled in 93 at which point bsd was
still far far ahead in the race.
Not at all. IF the FSF had not done what it did,
THEN the others
would have been history.
As for BSD inspite of having all the advantages that they did a
full 4 years ahead of linux they have (mostly) fallen behind.
There are other reasons for BSD falling behind. The major reason
being the lawsuit. Linus has gone on record saying that he wuld
never have developed on Linux were it not for the lawsuit. You need
to get your facts right. Also till the recent past (about 2-3
years), Freebsd was neck-to-neck with Linux in terms of technology.
I would place that at 2001.
And that is precisely my point. How come it fell behind. IMO because
of the licence which fosters a certain development model. As KG puts
it "it's the development model, not the licence". I dont agree wholly
with that as it's essentially the licence which creates the eco
system and also gurantees good behaviour by the participants, over
short term gains.
In the case of BSD the licence creates an ecosystem which is useful
for certain goals but relies on "market forces" to prevent errant and
counterproductive behaviour. Unfortunately market forces actually
rewards such behaviour in the short term. And if gamed properly, for
a substantially longer period, relative to product cycles. The result
is very visible. Also the mutants keep poisoning the field with legal
mines. Which requires changes in the licence.
--
Rgds
JTD
6:23 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 03-Jan-07, at 11:22 AM, jtd wrote:
And that is precisely my point. How come it fell
behind. IMO because
of the licence which fosters a certain development model. As KG puts
it "it's the development model, not the licence". I dont agree wholly
with that as it's essentially the licence which creates the eco
system and also gurantees good behaviour by the participants, over
short term gains.
there are two main development models going:
1. an organisation or company running the show, planning the direction
2. a meritocracy running the show, planning the direction
anything under the first model - regardless of the license - is in
danger. Good examples are mysql and mono - both under GPL
even the second model is in danger *unless* it has reached critical
mass. By critical mass, I mean it has sufficient base of developers
that make sure that no one person or one group can subvert it. Linux
kernel has that critical mass. And a surprisingly large number of
applications dont have it - and are in danger.
as for gpl creating good behaviour - remember it is because of gpl
that mysql and mono have no external developer base. Every would be
developer has to assign copyright of his work to the owners. This
constraint is not there in BSD style applications like postgresql.
And, like it or not, it *does* make a huge difference.
I would venture that apache too has reached critical mass.
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
6:48 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Wednesday 03 January 2007 11:53, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On 03-Jan-07, at 11:22 AM, jtd wrote:
> because of the licence which fosters a certain
development model.
> As KG puts it "it's the development model, not the licence".
there are two main development models going:
1. an organisation or company running the show, planning the
direction 2. a meritocracy running the show, planning the direction
anything under the first model - regardless of the license - is in
danger. Good examples are mysql and mono - both under GPL
even the second model is in danger *unless* it has reached critical
mass. By critical mass, I mean it has sufficient base of developers
that make sure that no one person or one group can subvert it.
Linux kernel has that critical mass. And a surprisingly large
number of applications dont have it - and are in danger.
Agreed.
as for gpl creating good behaviour - remember it is because of gpl
that mysql and mono have no external developer base. Every would be
developer has to assign copyright of his work to the owners.
That is definetly not the requirement of the gpl. It is the
requirement of the organisation. And will eventually cause a fork.
Eg X.org.
This
constraint is not there in BSD style applications like postgresql.
And, like it or not, it *does* make a huge difference.
I would venture that apache too has reached critical
mass.
Indeed. But u are looking at good behaviour. How do you account for
the innumerable known - never mind uknown - bad ones under BSD style
models. In utopia u would not require a licence at all. the purpose
of the licence is to ensure good behaviour. Relying on market forces
is a roll of the dice.
Critical mass is an essential to anything, open or closed. That is
what keeps M$ going. How did it get the tech to get that critical
mass ? suck BSD and friends whenever neccessary. Counter point they
could be sucking GNU too and one wouldn't know. But imo they would
not risk that.
--
Rgds
JTD
7:11 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 03-Jan-07, at 12:18 PM, jtd wrote:
but it invariably happens when you dual license gpl'd software - and
doesnt happen when you dual license bsd software
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
as for gpl
creating good behaviour - remember it is because of gpl
that mysql and mono have no external developer base. Every would be
developer has to assign copyright of his work to the owners.
That is definetly not the requirement of the gpl. It is the
requirement of the organisation. And will eventually cause a fork.
Eg X.org. 
1:20 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
2007/1/3, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon(a)au-kbc.org>rg>:
I agree
Cheers
Praveen
--
"Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history.
`Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn."
-- Richard Stallman
Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr
there are two main development models going:
1. an organisation or company running the show, planning the direction
2. a meritocracy running the show, planning the direction
anything under the first model - regardless of the license - is in
danger. Good examples are mysql and mono - both under GPL
What is dangerous with mysql? If they stop releasing GPLed versions the
community can easily fork it. Example sourceforge and gforge.
http://gforge.org/projects/gforge/ gforge is widely used and actively
developed (sarovar.org, savannah.gnu.org, alioth.debian.org ...)
And the danger with mono is patents. Even dotGNU has the danger but not as
grave as mono because Novell is paying royalties means acknoledging the
patent infringement.
even the second model is in danger *unless* it has reached critical
mass. By critical mass, I mean it has sufficient base
of developers
that make sure that no one person or one group can subvert it.
I agree with you here but even in this GPL has clear advantage as there is
no question of subverting (that arises only in case one where you have
copyright to the complete source code as in case 1).
Linux
kernel has that critical mass. And a surprisingly
large number of
applications dont have it - and are in danger.
I don't agree with you here. If there are people using an application there
will be some to continue development (see gforge).
as for gpl creating good behaviour - remember it is because of gpl
that mysql and mono have no external developer base.
paid and no paid FOSS developers are still FOSS developers and the code is
still FOSS. How MySQL becomes second class when all the developers are
getting paid? It is a good thing that the FOSS developers get paid.
This
constraint is not there in BSD style applications like
postgresql.
As you mentioned earlier unless there is a critical mass there is no way to
save these kind of projects in class 2.
And, like it or not, it *does* make a huge difference.
I have seen GNU classpath developers eagerly waiting to send their copyright
assignments to Sun as soon as they could. All of the GNU Classpath
developers were completely happy about the release of java under GPL see for
example http://kennke.org/blog/2006/11/13/first-rays-of-a-new-rising-sun/
I would venture that apache too has reached critical mass.
4 Jan
4 Jan
2:32 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 03-Jan-07, at 6:50 PM, പ്രവീണ്|Praveen wrote:
paid and no paid FOSS developers are still FOSS developers and the
code is
still FOSS. How MySQL becomes second class when all the developers are
getting paid? It is a good thing that the FOSS developers get paid.
you have missed the point. mysql and co miss out on the one-off
developer. a guy who may just make one patch. And also there is a
limit to the amount one can pay. So when you only have paid
developers, your developer base is bound to be small. This is not
about whether it is good or not good that FOSS developers be paid.
This is about the FOSS model of development against the proprietary
model of development. What I am saying is that even if code is
released under a FOSS license, that does not necessarily imply that
that code is being developed along the foss model - small incremental
changes, large developer base, promiscous acceptance of patches, a
bias against over engineering and over centralisation and over
planning. Incidently (if you need some ghee added to the flames)
Linus's criticism of Hurd was that the development model it follows
is not a FOSS model - and that is why it is doomed
I would venture that apache too has reached critical
mass.
I agree
you agree? then could I venture to say that python, perl, postgresql
have also reached critical mass?
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
3 Jan
3 Jan
8:55 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 03/01/07 09:06 +0530, Vinayak Hegde wrote:
<snip>
There are other reasons for BSD falling behind. The major reason being
the lawsuit. Linus has gone on record saying that he wuld never have
developed on Linux were it not for the lawsuit. You need to get your
facts right. Also till the recent past (about 2-3 years), Freebsd was
neck-to-neck with Linux in terms of technology.
IMO, until IBM and co started throwing their weight around with 2.6,
*BSD was a better choice technically. Add to that the unstable mess that
was 2.4 and you had the makings of a disaster (2.4 was a disaster
because Linux was running on mission critical servers, and no one would
even dare to actually test 2.3 there. The whole community approach works
when the community is willing to take risks. 2.6 had serious corporate
test networks available for testing.)
Devdas Bhagat
10:03 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
some short observations about this gnu vs linux issue.
1. fact is fact. gnu is the base and linux is the kernel so gnulinux
should not offend any one. what's wrong in calling both the names
when it is perfectly ethical and logical to do so? did any one ever
say just call it gnu?
2. if any one feels it should be called "foss/linux" then a question
can be asked "why not gnu/foss?"
so please don't make such comments.
3. gnulinux gives the perfect picture of total transperency and freedom.
it means "gnu operating system useing the linux kernel". so we value
both gnu as well as the linux kernel.
will some one ever disagree that linux is a kernel not an operating
system? and if linux is the kernel is it not the duty of every one to
mention the name of the operating system (and the tool chain ) along
with the kernel?
regards.
Krishnakant.
10:31 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Sometime Today, kM cobbled together some glyphs to say:
1. fact is fact. gnu is the base and linux is the
kernel so gnulinux
should not offend any one. what's wrong in calling both the names
while this was the case when linux started out, it is no longer the
case. each distribution is an operating system in itself, and most of
them do not resemble the original [intended] GNU system very much. Most
distros come pre-bundled with non-free software, which means that they
are definitely not GNU/Linux systems.
3. gnulinux gives the perfect picture of total
transperency and freedom.
it means "gnu operating system useing the linux kernel". so we value
As far as I know (and I don't know everything), Debian GNU/Linux is the
only GNU operating system using the linux kernel. I'm sure it's
possible to come up with your own such OS using Gentoo or LFS, but most
other pre-bundled linux kernel based operating systems have different
names (eg: Fedora Core Linux, Redhat Enterprise Linux).
system? and if linux is the kernel is it not the duty
of every one to
mention the name of the operating system (and the tool chain ) along
The tool chain and whether it is indispensable or not is really
irrelevant. The operating system and kernel may be relevant, but when
we talk about Free operating systems, we aren't dealing with the single
GNU Free operating system. There are many more today, all of which we
push, and most of which aren't GNU.
Using the GNU/ to imply freedom is a noble cause, and well worth it, but
is it right to use the GNU/ prefix to sell an OS that isn't completely
Free?
--
Use the "telephone test" for readability.
- The Elements of Programming Style (Kernighan & Plaugher)
10:33 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
And if you want my recommendation, I'll stick by what I've always said.
Pick a name that runs well of the tongue, and has all the connotations
that you wish to imply. It does not need to have either GNU or Linux in
its name, it just needs to sell well.
--
To err is human, to moo bovine.
11:11 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Wed, 2007-01-03 at 16:03 +0530, Philip Tellis wrote:
And if you want my recommendation, I'll stick by
what I've always said.
Pick a name that runs well of the tongue, and has all the connotations
that you wish to imply. It does not need to have either GNU or Linux in
its name, it just needs to sell well.
I agree.
My personal take on the matter is that since most desktop users spend
most of their time in a desktop environment, it's actually more sensible
to use the desktop's name - Gnome, KDE, XFCE etc. To me it appears to be
the quickest way to convey the largest amount of information about the
user's environment.
(My to drops of hydro carbon based liquid to this highly incendiary
thread :)
-gabin
--
To err is human, to moo bovine.
--
Many are called, few are chosen. Fewer still get to do the choosing.
11:44 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 03-Jan-07, at 4:41 PM, Gabin Kattukaran wrote:
most of their time in a desktop environment, it's
actually more
sensible
to use the desktop's name - Gnome, KDE, XFCE etc. To me it appears
to be
the quickest way to convey the largest amount of information about the
user's environment.
most people use the distro name - i talk of my kubuntu box, my
freebsd box and my devian box
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
12:14 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Wed, 2007-01-03 at 17:14 +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On 03-Jan-07, at 4:41 PM, Gabin Kattukaran wrote:
Of the lot, I think the Ubuntu family does best in expressing
orientation - the various flavours clearly identifying them. As for the
others, how different (from a user experience point of view) is Gnome
running on Debian (note the lack of extra potentially volatile terms :)
fro Gnome running on FC from Gnome running on <your favourite distro
here> ?
On the server side it's always better to talk in terms of stacks or
services and the packages that provide them
-gabin
--
Let there be spaces in your togetherness.
-- Kahlil Gibran
most of their time in a desktop environment,
it's actually more
sensible
to use the desktop's name - Gnome, KDE, XFCE etc. To me it appears
to be
the quickest way to convey the largest amount of information about the
user's environment.
most people use the distro name - i talk of my kubuntu box, my
freebsd box and my devian box
12:27 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Wed, 2007-01-03 at 17:44 +0530, Gabin Kattukaran wrote:
Of the lot, I think the Ubuntu family does best in expressing
orientation - the various flavours clearly identifying them. As for the
others, how different (from a user experience point of view) is Gnome
running on Debian (note the lack of extra potentially volatile terms :)
fro Gnome running on FC from Gnome running on <your favourite distro
here> ?
Contrast that with the user experience on Gnome vs KDE vs XFCE
-gabin
--
It is lamentable, that to be a good patriot one must become the enemy of
the rest of mankind.
-Voltaire
12:34 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Of the lot, I think the Ubuntu family does best in
expressing
orientation - the various flavours clearly identifying them. As for the
others, how different (from a user experience point of view) is Gnome
running on Debian (note the lack of extra potentially volatile terms :)
fro Gnome running on FC from Gnome running on <your favourite distro
here> ?
True, it sounds a lot more serene, calm(and i mean really calm) and keeps
one from getting emotionally hyper(whichever ideology) and seems to be quite
acceptable.
On the server side it's always better to talk in terms of stacks or
services and the packages that provide them
that works for me.
Gabin, i guess this thread won't be that after all ;-) Your two drops seem
to be those of sacred water and seem to have created a peace around an ever
heated topic :-) i hope i did not speak too soon ;-)
Philip,
<quote>
Using the GNU/ to imply freedom is a noble cause, and well worth it, but
is it right to use the GNU/ prefix to sell an OS that isn't completely
Free?
</quote>
well said :-)
Regards,
- vihan
1:18 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Gabin Kattukaran wrote:
On Wed, 2007-01-03 at 16:03 +0530, Philip Tellis
wrote:
i use fvwm.. you insensitive clod!!
And if you want my recommendation, I'll stick
by what I've always said.
Pick a name that runs well of the tongue, and has all the connotations
that you wish to imply. It does not need to have either GNU or Linux in
its name, it just needs to sell well.
I agree.
My personal take on the matter is that since most desktop users spend
most of their time in a desktop environment, it's actually more sensible
to use the desktop's name - Gnome, KDE, XFCE etc.
1:37 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
My personal take on the matter is that since most
desktop users spend
Dude, its not polite to call people ``insensitive clods", especially people
like Gabin.
If you like fvwm, good for you. In fact if you really did, you would write
something positive about it here rather than something negative about Gabin.
Regards,
- vihan
most of their time in a desktop environment,
it's actually more sensible
to use the desktop's name - Gnome, KDE, XFCE etc.
i use fvwm.. you insensitive clod!!
1:47 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Vihan Pandey wrote:
Dude!! don't dude me..
My personal
take on the matter is that since most desktop users spend
Dude, its not polite to call people ``insensitive clods", especially people
like Gabin. most of their time in a desktop environment,
it's actually more
sensible
to use the desktop's name - Gnome, KDE, XFCE
etc.
i use fvwm.. you insensitive clod!! If you like fvwm, good for you. In fact if you really
did, you would write
something positive about it here rather than something negative about
Gabin.
sigh.. no sense of humo(u)r see:
http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/Insensitive_clod
i am starting to like this list ;-)
cheers,
- dhawal
4 Jan
4 Jan
1:47 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 03-Jan-07, at 7:07 PM, Vihan Pandey wrote:
come on - he make joke
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
i use fvwm..
you insensitive clod!!
Dude, its not polite to call people ``insensitive clods",
especially people
like Gabin.
6:15 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Thursday 04 January 2007 11:20, Vihan Pandey wrote:
People call freesoftware opensource. Now that is crude and deep
sacrilege too boot. Some even accused god of begging for credit.
For the humour challenged and deeply singed by the roaring flames that
is a joke. Honest.
--
Rgds
JTD
come on - he
make joke
i know :-)
albeit a crude one.
6:56 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 11:45 +0530, jtd wrote:
People call freesoftware opensource. Now that is crude
and deep
sacrilege too boot. Some even accused god of begging for credit.
For the humour challenged and deeply singed by the roaring flames that
is a joke. Honest.
You know, it's quite common for gods (or for their followers) to beg for
credit for any number of things. Last time I checked there was quite
furore over credit for the universe, its current state and where it is
headed. In that particular war, the flames _really_ burn.
:)
-gabin
--
Don't try to understand 'em
Just rope, throw and brand 'em
- "Rawhide" (Frankie Laine)
7:25 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Thursday 04 January 2007 12:26, Gabin Kattukaran wrote:
On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 11:45 +0530, jtd wrote:
Ya. With planets being demoted to also ran asteroids and the earth
being declared flat. And we are worried about juxtaposed alpahbets
being free or open. Heck I am off to protesting about Pluto being God
- not merely a demoted semi-planet.
--
Rgds
JTD
People call freesoftware opensource. Now that is
crude and deep
sacrilege too boot. Some even accused god of begging for credit.
For the humour challenged and deeply singed by the roaring flames
that is a joke. Honest.
You know, it's quite common for gods (or for their followers) to
beg for credit for any number of things. Last time I checked there
was quite furore over credit for the universe, its current state
and where it is headed. In that particular war, the flames _really_
burn.
9:36 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Sometime Today, j cobbled together some glyphs to say:
being declared flat. And we are worried about
juxtaposed alpahbets
juxtaposed _letters_ of the alpahbet.
being free or open. Heck I am off to protesting about
Pluto being God
Umm, Pluto is a Dog, not a God. Mickey Mouse's dog to be specific.
--
A man is not complete until he is married -- then he is finished.
9:51 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Thursday 04 January 2007 15:06, Philip Tellis wrote:
Sometime Today, j cobbled together some glyphs to
say:
Trust u to kill pjs. I am getting one of these for the next meet.
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/115889/rb/24101214779
--
Rgds
JTD
being declared flat. And we are worried about
juxtaposed
alpahbets
juxtaposed _letters_ of the alpahbet.
being free or open. Heck I am off to protesting
about Pluto being
God
Umm, Pluto is a Dog, not a God. Mickey Mouse's dog to be specific.
10:04 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Trust u to kill pjs. I am getting one of these for the
next meet.
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/115889/rb/24101214779
People create the strangest things!
Anyway, i think the most dangerous feature of the launcher is the last line
on that page :
"The USB Missile Launcher comes with software compatible with Windows 2000
and Windows XP and is connected to your PC or laptop via USB."
Fire at will !!!
:-)
Regards,
- vihan
10:06 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Philip Tellis wrote:
Sometime Today, j cobbled together some glyphs to
say:
it is yet unknown whether or not Pluto is a dog.. primary reason being
the existence of Goofy (Mickey Mouse's friend) who also claims to be a
dog. Walt Disney's and Mickey Mouse's head exploded trying to clear this
confusion.
The only time Pluto and Goofy got together was in Hong Kong.. when both
were surprisingly standing on their feet.. thus causing reasons to
believe that none of them are dogs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:HK_Disneyland_Goofy_n_fans.jpg
cheers,
- dhawal
PS: For the non-believers.. this is an important piece of trivia and has
nothing to do with Linux.
being free or open. Heck I am off to protesting
about Pluto being God
Umm, Pluto is a Dog, not a God. Mickey Mouse's dog to be specific. 
3 Jan
3 Jan
2:02 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Sometime Today, DD cobbled together some glyphs to say:
i use fvwm.. you insensitive clod!!
if you use fvwm, you must have really thick skin. I don't believe
insensitivity would get to you.
!!
--
Humans must never submit to animals.
-- Bene Gesserit Teaching
2:28 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Philip Tellis wrote:
Sometime Today, DD cobbled together some glyphs to
say:
Umm no *that* was a joke.. i do not use fvwm (unless desperately forced
to do so) and was a KDE user. Currently being an 'idiot user' i use
gnome. It was Linus (and not me) whose quote was interpreted as 'GNOME
users are idiots'..
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000390.html
.. more flames please.
i use fvwm.. you insensitive clod!!
if you use fvwm, you must have really thick skin. I don't believe
insensitivity would get to you.
5:22 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Hi,
There's some questions that came up in my mind about the brochure. I'm
sure many of us have that answers to most in our minds but I feel it's
necessary that we get them out on record so that we're clear about the
direction of this promotion campaign.
* Where do we distribute the brochure(s)?
* How do we time it?
* What audience are we expecting?
* What is the tangible commodity that we are promoting?
* Do these questions need a separate Wiki page? ;-)
Please come up with more such questions (and answers) so that we're
very clear about where we want to go with this.
Regards,
--
Siddhesh Poyarekar
http://siddhesh.tk
4 Jan
4 Jan
2:23 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 03-Jan-07, at 10:52 PM, Siddhesh Poyarekar wrote:
* Where do we distribute the brochure(s)?
the best place would be through hardware dealers. And we need to get
some linux friendly hardware dealers on our wiki. I know Rony is one
- but he is probably too shy to put his name, address etc up, so can
someone else do it? Also I feel that other list members with leverage
(that is they make frequent hardware purchases) should try to
convince their hardware suppliers to go for the 'linux friendly'
certification. They get to have their info put on the wiki, and all
they need to do is put up a linux poster in their shop and have a
stack of brochures to distribute. I think that if we can make one or
two of them an offer they cannot refuse, others will Q up to be on
the site.
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
7:24 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Hi All!
On 1/3/07, Siddhesh Poyarekar <siddhesh dot poyarekar at gmail at com> wrote:
* Where do we distribute the brochure(s)?
* How do we time it?
* What audience are we expecting?
* What is the tangible commodity that we are promoting?
* Do these questions need a separate Wiki page? ;-)
Who is going to foot the bill for printing/distributing these brochures?
What benefit for him/her/it for footing the bill?
Please come up with more such questions (and answers)
so that we're
very clear about where we want to go with this.
--
Siddhesh Poyarekar
http://siddhesh.tk
With regards,
--
--Dinesh Shah :-)
7:43 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 04-Jan-07, at 12:54 PM, Dinesh Shah wrote:
Who is going to foot the bill for
printing/distributing these
brochures?
how much will the bill come to? can someone give a quote for various
numbers. I can certainly contribute - my organisation too
What benefit for him/her/it for footing the bill?
moksha. punya. or if he is a business man, he gets to print his name
address and a small advertisement on the box at the bottom of the
last page. (this is for linux friendly dealers, institutes etc)
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
3:10 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Dinesh Shah wrote:
Hi All!
On 1/3/07, Siddhesh Poyarekar <siddhesh dot poyarekar at gmail at com>
wrote:
I am planning to print the brochures as per my budget permit. I plan to
distribute them to my customers and whoever may need to know about
Linux. This is because leisure reading can be more influential than an
on-the-spot lecture. He takes it home and shows it to his family too or
his friends. The purpose is mainly to create awareness even if they
don't actually install it.
I recollect a time when I was with a client who was trying to sell me
the networked sale concept that required me to be silent for 1 hour
while he gave me the lecture. I was sitting across his table and simply
dozed off after a few minutes. He felt offended and stopped the talk.
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________
The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet
provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
* Where do we distribute the brochure(s)?
* How do we time it?
* What audience are we expecting?
* What is the tangible commodity that we are promoting?
* Do these questions need a separate Wiki page? ;-)
Who is going to foot the bill for printing/distributing these brochures?
What benefit for him/her/it for footing the bill?
4:14 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 1/4/07, Rony <ronbillypop(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I am planning to print the brochures as per my budget
permit. I plan to
Do let us know the cost of printing. If it's feasible I guess some us
could pitch in with a bit (I could pitch in a couple of hundred) so
that we can distribute to other channels as well.
If there are college students on this list (I'm sure there are) please
let us know when your technical festivals are. We could target those
for brochure distribution as well.
I'm not sure how well brochures will work in offices. Any other places
we could distribute?
Regards,
--
Siddhesh Poyarekar
http://siddhesh.tk
5:55 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Siddhesh Poyarekar wrote:
On 1/4/07, Rony <ronbillypop(a)yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
Right now I want the text to be finalized so I can move on. I think now
there is nothing much to discuss on the topics mentioned so I can take a
printout and go to stage 2.
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________
Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Yahoo! Mail.
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
I am planning to print the brochures as per my
budget permit. I plan to
Do let us know the cost of printing. If it's feasible I guess some us
could pitch in with a bit (I could pitch in a couple of hundred) so
that we can distribute to other channels as well.
If there are college students on this list (I'm sure there are) please
let us know when your technical festivals are. We could target those
for brochure distribution as well.
I'm not sure how well brochures will work in offices. Any other places
we could distribute?
7:21 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Rony wrote:
Right now I want the text to be finalized so I can move on. I think now
there is nothing much to discuss on the topics mentioned so I can take a
printout and go to stage 2.
The text is now finalized. Since it is too big for an A4 page with folds
in landscape format, I am planning to use 2 Letter or A$ size pages in
portrait format but as a folded brochure. That gives me 4 sides to print
on and will give space for the screen shots too. The folder look will
overcome the ugliness of an A4 or Letter size page.
I need to create the last paragraph with credits etc. and our list
should appear in it so please add that part in the wiki. Do not change
anything else.
http://db.glug-bom.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_Brochure_Quick_Guide
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________
All New Yahoo! Mail Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you.
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
5 Jan
5 Jan
2:55 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On 04-Jan-07, at 11:25 PM, Rony wrote:
consider it finalised - feel free to trim extraneous stuff
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
we could
distribute?
Right now I want the text to be finalized so I can move on. I think
now there is nothing much to discuss on the topics mentioned so I
can take a printout and go to stage 2.
3 Jan
3 Jan
5:58 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Sometime Today, DD cobbled together some glyphs to say:
I know ;)
--
They looked at one another in incomprehension, two minds driving opposite
ways up a narrow street and waiting for the other man to reverse first.
(Soul Music)
if you use
fvwm, you must have really thick skin. I don't believe
insensitivity would get to you.
Umm no *that* was a joke..
4 Jan
4 Jan
3:51 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Wed, 2007-01-03 at 19:58 +0530, Dhawal Doshy wrote:
Philip Tellis wrote:
hey dhawal,
looks like you got caught on your own trip wire. no harm done. :)
-gabin
--
War is menstruation envy
Sometime Today, DD cobbled together some glyphs
to say:
Umm no *that* was a joke.. i do not use fvwm (unless desperately forced
to do so) and was a KDE user. Currently being an 'idiot user' i use
gnome. It was Linus (and not me) whose quote was interpreted as 'GNOME
users are idiots'..
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000390.html
.. more flames please. i use fvwm.. you insensitive clod!!
if you use fvwm, you must have really thick skin. I don't believe
insensitivity would get to you.
7:14 a.m.
New subject: Next monthly meet? (was A Linux Brochure)
Gabin Kattukaran wrote:
On Wed, 2007-01-03 at 19:58 +0530, Dhawal Doshy
wrote:
yep.. no harm done. You appear to have been around for a long time and i
assumed you'd get the joke (and looks like you did!!). i seldom take
anything seriously (including all the hate mail so far).. i am really
starting to like this list (btw the list *is* calming down).
Now for some thing more serious.. when is then next monthly meet and
what is the agenda? i'd like to be a part of it (if its not a Sunday).
cheers,
- dhawal
Philip Tellis wrote:
hey dhawal,
looks like you got caught on your own trip wire. no harm done. :) Sometime Today, DD cobbled together some glyphs
to say:
Umm no *that* was a joke.. i do not use fvwm
(unless desperately forced
to do so) and was a KDE user. Currently being an 'idiot user' i use
gnome. It was Linus (and not me) whose quote was interpreted as 'GNOME
users are idiots'..
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000390.html
.. more flames please. i use fvwm.. you insensitive clod!!
if you
use fvwm, you must have really thick skin. I don't believe
insensitivity would get to you. 
7:32 a.m.
New subject: Next monthly meet? (was A Linux Brochure)
On Thursday 04 January 2007 12:44, Dhawal Doshy wrote:
take anything seriously (including all the hate mail
so far).. i am
really starting to like this list (btw the list *is* calming down).
awww...we're lucky that you finally started to like us! Hamare toh
naseeb khul gaye! ( hehe j/k )
Now for some thing more serious.. when is then next
monthly meet and
what is the agenda? i'd like to be a part of it (if its not a
Sunday).
Not on Feb 4! Please NOT on Feb 4! :(
--
Regards,
Dinesh A. Joshi
7:41 a.m.
New subject: Next monthly meet? (was A Linux Brochure)
Dinesh Joshi wrote:
Are the meets traditionally held on Sundays? why?
On Thursday 04 January 2007 12:44, Dhawal Doshy
wrote:
naseeb is incorrect.. the apt words being 'bhaag' OR 'bhaagya'
take anything seriously (including all the hate
mail so far).. i am
really starting to like this list (btw the list *is* calming down).
awww...we're lucky that you finally started to like us! Hamare toh
naseeb khul gaye! ( hehe j/k ) Now for some
thing more serious.. when is then next monthly meet and
what is the agenda? i'd like to be a part of it (if its not a
Sunday).
Not on Feb 4! Please NOT on Feb 4! :(
7:50 a.m.
New subject: Next monthly meet? (was A Linux Brochure)
On Thursday 04 January 2007 13:11, Dhawal Doshy wrote:
Is it a crime for not knowing ones national language! Its not my first
language :P Hehe... kidding...lol ;)
Are the meets traditionally held on Sundays? why?
We're in Mumbai buddy, people are generally free on Sundays and I am no
veteran of LUG meets so I can't really comment if its a tradition or
not...
--
Regards,
Dinesh A. Joshi
awww...we're lucky that you finally started to like us! Hamare toh
naseeb khul gaye! ( hehe j/k )
naseeb is incorrect.. the apt words being 'bhaag' OR 'bhaagya' Now for some thing more serious.. when is then next
monthly meet
and what is the agenda? i'd like to be a part of it (if its not a
Sunday).
Not on Feb 4! Please NOT on Feb 4! :(
27 Dec
27 Dec
7:05 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Thursday 28 December 2006 00:09, Roshan wrote:
--- Mrugesh Karnik <mrugeshkarnik(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
I wouldn't know what's acceptable, hence I'm commenting here. If the others
agree with what I've said, they can put it up. I would delete the GNU/Linux
thing from where it doesn't belong and that would not be acceptable I guess.
Hence, I stay away.
P.S. I would have put up a section about freedom which would talk of GNU, of
course, instead of going GNU/Linux everywhere. Credit must be given where it
is due. The robbing others' credit part angers me.
--
----------------------------------------
Mrugesh Karnik
GPG Key 0xBA6F1DA8
Public key on http://wwwkeys.pgp.net
----------------------------------------
Ok. Apparently, I have a few comments rather
than
one or two, for which I've
already sent two different emails...
<removed comments>
Hey dude, you have a Wiki Account. Go ahead and edit
the article, in such a way, that the current and the
new content is acceptable, to the least, to all the
GLUG-BOM wikipedians.
7:11 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Mrugesh Karnik wrote:
Ok. Apparently, I have a few comments rather than one
or two, for which I've
already sent two different emails...
<quote>
Customise - All code is available for reuse
</quote>
The typical end user couldn't care less. Use KDE as an example. Windows simply
does not offer you that kind of control, that easily. For example, no need to
install 3rd party non-free (cost wise) software just to install themes.
Choice is an important point. With Windows, the user is stuck to the default
interface. In Linux we have GNOME, KDE, XFCE as Desktop Environments that are
different and offer choice. Plus the various Window Managers. E17 - do not
forget about it. It rocks.
Keep it simple for the windows user. Too many details will confuse him.
<quote>
Platform Indpendence - Runs on Intel x86, ARM, Alpha, Sparc, Mips, SH, Sharc,
Power Omap and many other architectures.
</quote>
A windows user does not use non-ix86 platforms.
Would I really care, as an end user? I'd only worry about Intel x86 and AMD64
in most cases.
Hmm. Many devices work out of the box. For example, just plug in your Sony
Ericsson mobile phone and it works! No extra software to install, no drivers
needed.
<quote>
Security - secure by virtue of being a multiuser multitasking networked system
by design. One of the spinoffs is that GNU/Linux is essentially virus free
</quote>
Again, lets keep it less technical.
Add spyware. Major concern these days. This also means no installation of 3rd
party software.
Its is mentioned. Viruses, trojans and spyware.
Also, no need to use pirated software or cracks. Nearly everything is free as
in cost and legitimate.
Also mention the fact that when you install a Linux Distro, all the software
is installed, instead of having to install it manually. Huge plus.
Both are good points. Do merge them into the text.
Software installation can be a plus. No need to hunt various sites for
software downloads. Just open some GUI and look for the software you want and
click install. Automatically downloaded and installed. Quite likeable.
Yes I mentioned package managers and repos.
The LiveCDs are loved, trust me. Newbies love the ability to pop in a cd and
check out software without having to install it. The point should be moved
higher up the order.
Yes this point can be added too so that the user is free to try out the
cd before having to install it.
Whom exactly is this document aimed at? Newbies? I would guess so. Please bear
in mind the target audience before writing. I would rather split up the
document for Desktops and Servers.
Normal windows users only. No server side.
You forgot to mention the features that certain apps offer that aren't
available in Windows, for example Amarok, superkaramba... And Beryl!
Thats too in-depth.
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________
Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. "The New Version is radically easier to use" The
Wall Street Journal
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28 Dec
28 Dec
8:45 a.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Thursday 28 December 2006 00:41, Rony wrote:
U are forgetting that a hughe number of doze users develop software
for non x86 platforms and never even heard of Linux. This is
particularly important for engineering students.
--
Rgds
JTD
<quote>
Platform Indpendence - Runs on Intel x86, ARM, Alpha, Sparc,
Mips, SH, Sharc, Power Omap and many other architectures.
</quote>
A windows user does not use non-ix86 platforms.
27 Dec
27 Dec
7 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Mrugesh Karnik wrote:
Ok. flame wars, I don't care. But, using GNU/Linux
and then pointing to only
the GNU's view of the matter is very partial.
Consider the fact that if you're talking to normal users, you're looking at a
desktop system, which typically means Xorg, KDE, Mozilla etc. So I wouldn't
use GNU/Linux there, because that is NOT a GNU operating system. Its a Free
and Open Source operating system, which is NOT equivalent to only GNU. That's
rubbish.
I have a better solution. Avoid this war entirely and simply use the words "A
Linux based Distribution". It could apply to "A FreeBSD based
Distribution"
too.
Lets avoid this at least for this idea. Please spare me. :-D
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________
All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of
use." - PC Magazine
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7:33 p.m.
New subject: [OT] GNU/Linux issue.. (Was: A Linux Brochure)
On Thursday 28 December 2006 00:30, Rony wrote:
Mrugesh Karnik wrote:
Exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm not the one going GNU everywhere. Anyway,
good point. I should control my anger. I'll keep away from this from now.
Oh, hehehe...
<quote>
GNU/Linux is a free and open source operating system with a full graphical
window desktop, that is a joint product of Linus Torvalds who developed its
kernel (core), the GNU organisation that contributed program tools to build
software applications over it and thousands of programers who contribute to
the world of free software.
</quote>
See the irony? many bodies mentioned, yet just two accredited in the name.
Do something. create an OS which does NOT have Xorg, KDE, Apache, MySQL,
Postfix, Mozilla, OpenSSH etc etc etc. In essence, only the software
developed directly by the GNU project. Do NOT include software that's under
the GPL but not developed directly by GNU. Do NOT include the software that's
not under the GPL. I doubt any GNU projects use any other license than the
GPL. Use the Linux kernel. Call the OS GNU/Linux.
Thank you.
--
----------------------------------------
Mrugesh Karnik
GPG Key 0xBA6F1DA8
Public key on http://wwwkeys.pgp.net
----------------------------------------
Ok. flame wars, I don't care. But, using
GNU/Linux and then pointing to
only the GNU's view of the matter is very partial.
Consider the fact that if you're talking to normal users, you're looking
at a desktop system, which typically means Xorg, KDE, Mozilla etc. So I
wouldn't use GNU/Linux there, because that is NOT a GNU operating system.
Its a Free and Open Source operating system, which is NOT equivalent to
only GNU. That's rubbish.
I have a better solution. Avoid this war entirely and simply use the
words "A Linux based Distribution". It could apply to "A FreeBSD based
Distribution" too.
Lets avoid this at least for this idea. Please spare me. :-D 
30 Dec
30 Dec
9:04 a.m.
New subject: [OT] GNU/Linux issue.. (Was: A Linux Brochure)
On 12/28/06, Mrugesh Karnik <mrugeshkarnik(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The easiest way to hurt Linux is to have the
Linux-enthusiasts fight
over various issues like this. While they keep fighting over these
issues, the others keep taking the market.
Hey, friends, let's work to make Linux grow, while these discussions
can continue on a side. And while the discussions keep going, let's be
clear that all those who work on Linux (on any license/s) are anyway
Linux users. Some who don't like this, need to read more on Freedom as
a subject.
Ashok
--
Linux - Transforming Lives !
On Thursday 28 December 2006 00:30, Rony wrote:
GNU/Linux is a free
and open source operating system with a full graphical
window desktop, that is a joint product of Linus Torvalds who developed its
kernel (core), the GNU organisation that contributed program tools to build
software applications over it and thousands of programers who contribute to
the world of free software.
</quote
See the irony? many bodies mentioned, yet just two accredited in the name.
Do something. create an OS which does NOT have Xorg, KDE, Apache, MySQL,
Postfix, Mozilla, OpenSSH etc etc etc. In essence, only the software
developed directly by the GNU project. Do NOT include software that's under
the GPL but not developed directly by GNU. Do NOT include the software that's
not under the GPL. I doubt any GNU projects use any other license than the
GPL. Use the Linux kernel. Call the OS GNU/Linux.
Thank you.
--
----------------------------------------
Mrugesh Karnik
GPG Key 0xBA6F1DA8
Public key on http://wwwkeys.pgp.net
Mrugesh Karnik wrote:
Exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm not the one going GNU everywhere. Anyway,
good point. I should control my anger. I'll keep away from this from now.
Oh, hehehe...
<quote Ok. flame wars, I don't care. But, using
GNU/Linux and then pointing to
only the GNU's view of the matter is very partial.
Consider the fact that if you're talking to normal users, you're looking
at a desktop system, which typically means Xorg, KDE, Mozilla etc. So I
wouldn't use GNU/Linux there, because that is NOT a GNU operating system.
Its a Free and Open Source operating system, which is NOT equivalent to
only GNU. That's rubbish.
I have a better solution. Avoid this war entirely and simply use the
words "A Linux based Distribution". It could apply to "A FreeBSD based
Distribution" too.
Lets avoid this at least for this idea. Please spare me. :-D
27 Dec
27 Dec
8:20 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Sometime on Dec 27, Roshan assembled some asciibets to say:
However, if the list members feel, that the mailing
list is best for
communication / discussion regarding the article, no problems! :)
discuss the article on the article's talk page. that way the thread
stays in one place. a user's talk page should be used to communicate
with the user.
31 Dec
31 Dec
12:44 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
On Wednesday 27 December 2006 07:22, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
php apps?
doesn't matter what the app has been written in. The point is that all
these bulletin boards have captchas to prevent automated registration
by bots but since the captchas are simple enough for a simple OCR
engine to break, the bots get through...
--
Regards,
Dinesh A. Joshi
25 Dec
25 Dec
8:33 p.m.
New subject: A Linux Brochure
Sometime on Dec 25, Kenneth Gonsalves assembled some asciibets to say:
then how does wikipedia manage it? what i do is, first
you enter email
wikipedia has far more volunteers to keep things clean than ilug-bom
does. I've seen loads of spam on wikipedia, and I've seen some of them
stay there for months before being cleaned up. Edits with profanity are
generally cleaned up automatically, but others aren't.
5655
days inactive
5666
days old
129 comments
21 participants
participants (21)
-
Anurag -
Devdas Bhagat -
Dhawal Doshy -
Dinesh Joshi -
Dinesh Shah -
Gabin Kattukaran -
jtd -
Kartik Mistry -
Kenneth Gonsalves -
krishnakant Mane -
Mrugesh Karnik -
Openlx Linux -
Parthan -
Philip Tellis -
Rony -
Roshan -
Siddhesh Poyarekar -
Vihan Pandey -
Vinayak Hegde -
Vivek J. Patankar -
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