Dear Members, My name is Manoj Bohara. Friends i needed some information regarding linux OS courses . I am deeply intrested in linux system programming field . If anybody knows of any institute in Mumbai which gives the right training and project to work on , i request to him/her to pass this information to me , it will be go great help to me since i am not aware of any institute in Mumbai .
Also i needed guidance on how should i go about it . Is it necessary C/C++ in depth to learn such Linux subjects . Thanks in anticipation
Best Regards Manoj Bohara
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Sometime Today, MB cobbled together some glyphs to say:
information regarding linux OS courses . I am deeply intrested in
Learn on your own man. That's how the best do it. Also learn to fix your line length :)
Philip
--- Philip Tellis philip.tellis@gmx.net wrote:
Sometime Today, MB cobbled together some glyphs to say:
information regarding linux OS courses . I am deeply intrested in
Learn on your own man. That's how the best do it. Also learn to fix your line length :)
But I am sure there is hope for those who are not the best yet and accept it? Or is it simply, Hope for the Best?
abhi
Ignorance is Strength. What you don't know cannot hurt you.
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Sometime Today, AD cobbled together some glyphs to say:
But I am sure there is hope for those who are not the best yet and accept it? Or is it simply, Hope for the Best?
You become best. You do not start there.
--- Philip Tellis philip.tellis@gmx.net wrote:
Sometime Today, AD cobbled together some glyphs to say:
But I am sure there is hope for those who are not the best yet and accept it? Or is it simply, Hope for the Best?
You become best. You do not start there.
My point exactly.
Ignorance is Strength. What you don't know cannot hurt you.
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On Thursday 23 Jun 2005 9:57 pm, Philip Tellis wrote:
Sometime Today, MB cobbled together some glyphs to say:
information regarding linux OS courses . I am deeply intrested in
Learn on your own man. That's how the best do it. Also learn to fix your line length :)
i dont agree. i have learnt everything on my own due to the fact that i am the only opensource programmer within a radius of 200 kilometers from here. And, believe you me, it is a pita. No doubt god helps those who help themselves, but a considerable amount of interraction with ppl in the know certainly helps to speed up the learning track. Yes, mailing lists and forums do help to a certain extent, but when learning on ones own, a lot of 'newbie' stuff is a dark mystery, and it is often in fear and trembling that i post queries on lists hoping to get answers without being flamed. (i have been flamed innumerable times for asking newbie questions, including a coupla times by philji himself). Most of the guys who propagate this 'learn on your own' crap are guys who have 3-5 years of formal education in computers, on which basis they are now capable, to a certain extent, of learning on their own. incidently, on a personal note heard tell you were going for german classes - how come you didnt learn german on your own (I did). I would suggest that unhelpful replies like this be avoided. If a guy asks for info about courses available, either give the info or refrain from adding to the noise on the list.
Philip
-- We are governed not by armies and police but by ideas. -- Mona Caird, 1892
--- Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@thenilgiris.com wrote:
On Thursday 23 Jun 2005 9:57 pm, Philip Tellis wrote:
Sometime Today, MB cobbled together some glyphs to say:
information regarding linux OS courses . I am deeply intrested in
Learn on your own man. That's how the best do it. Also learn to fix your line length :)
i dont agree. i have learnt everything on my own due to the fact that i am the only opensource programmer within a radius of 200 kilometers from here. And, believe you me, it is a pita. No doubt god helps those who help themselves, but a considerable amount of interraction with ppl in the know certainly helps to speed up the learning track. Yes, mailing lists and forums do help to a certain extent, but when learning on ones own, a lot of 'newbie' stuff is a dark mystery, and it is often in fear and trembling that i post queries on lists hoping to get answers without being flamed. (i have been flamed innumerable times for asking newbie questions, including a coupla times by philji himself).
I think this is an old problem. Some techies are irritated when they see newbies asking questions that could have been located via gogle search or by reading howtos. Others such as Kenneth or myself feel that a certain degree of hand holding is essential. Not everyone has the same level of tech savvyness that some of us do.
Most of the guys who propagate this 'learn on your own' crap are guys who have 3-5 years of formal education in computers, on which basis they are now capable, to a certain extent, of learning on their own.
I disagree with this. I believe it's all to do with aptitude. If folks who've undergone formal education in computers are still good programmers/techies, then this is because of their inner strength and aptitude. They also still retain the ability to learn - something that remains within them despite their having attended college.
incidently, on a personal note heard tell you were going for german classes - how come you didnt learn german on your own (I did). I would suggest that unhelpful replies like this be avoided. If a guy asks for info about courses available, either give the info or refrain from adding to the noise on the list.
While I wouldn't call his reply unhelpful, I would say that Philip has assumed certain savvyness on the part of the original poster.
-- Sriram
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On 6/24/05, Sriram N sriramx_2000@yahoo.com wrote:
--- Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@thenilgiris.com wrote:
Most of the guys who propagate this 'learn on your own' crap are guys who have 3-5 years of formal education in computers, on which basis they are now capable, to a certain extent, of learning on their own.
I disagree with this. I believe it's all to do with aptitude. If folks who've undergone formal education in computers are still good programmers/techies, then this is because of their inner strength and aptitude. They also still retain the ability to learn - something that remains within them despite their having attended college.
formal education has no corelation with the individuals *desire to learn* whether its about linux, computers, programming, languages, etc,..... rather more to do the the inherent will of the person concerned. i know some individuals who have created new programming language, debugged kernels and all this without a formal *education and/or degree*, and yet they are so humble and helpful.
Sometime Today, KG cobbled together some glyphs to say:
himself). Most of the guys who propagate this 'learn on your own' crap are guys who have 3-5 years of formal education in computers, on
My learning on my own predates my formal course in computers.
I was merely suggesting an alternate way to learn, and I definitely wasn't flaming - notice the smiley :)
for german classes - how come you didnt learn german on your own (I
I take a german class for the joy of being in a beginner's class.
IAC, it has been a long time since I've had anything helpful to share on the list, so mum's the word now.
Philip
On Friday 24 Jun 2005 11:38 am, Philip Tellis wrote:
I take a german class for the joy of being in a beginner's class.
precisely my point - even if a formal course is crap, 1. some fundamentals do get across 2. interaction with fellow students is highly beneficial even if the interraction is to gripe about the quality of the course and the stupidity of the teacher - which often leads to a collective effort to learn on ones own.
On Sat, 2005-06-25 at 07:40 +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Friday 24 Jun 2005 11:38 am, Philip Tellis wrote:
I take a german class for the joy of being in a beginner's class.
I'd disagree. Classes and courses are beneficial depeding on what kind of learning you want. I discovered attending guitar classes for six months doesn't even make you a tolerable guitar player.
The entire "computer class" mindset comes from stupid products. For example if I have to do search and replace in MSword there are standard was click here click there you're done. OTOH on just the GNU/Linux command line there are plenty of ways... Now everyone has his/her own favourite shortcut way (depending on how ugly the commands look).
If you want to learn specifics like Math, Languages etc the classes are good. But learning GNU/Linux is like learning to cook. Everyone does his own thing, as there is generally more than one way to solve problems and do tasks. You need to be able to think for that and nobody can teach you to think.
Classes would teach you the grammar and the syntax of things, it can't teach you how to write an essay. For that you need experience. In Matrix speak, to learn the rules classes are good; to learn how to "bend" the rules, you need to learn on your own.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
ah
While the knights are still riding their high horses with lances drawn out, the humble question begs asking.
Where is Manoj Bohara? Surely this list is not troll friendly? Will the real manoj bohara please stand up.
:-)
-abhi
Ignorance is Strength. What you don't know cannot hurt you.
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--- Manoj Bohara manoj_boharaforever@yahoo.co.in wrote:
Dear Members, My name is Manoj Bohara. Friends i needed some information regarding linux OS courses . I am deeply intrested in linux system programming field . If anybody knows of any institute in Mumbai which gives the right training and project to work on , i request to him/her to pass this information to me , it will be go great help to me since i am not aware of any institute in Mumbai .
If you have a computer at home, the best way for you to gain skills on using, proigramming, and administering a Linux box, would be to try learning Linux usage yourself.
A computer course does take you along a (usually) well defined learning track, but teaching yourself will force your mind open to new possibilities, and the pleasure of having discovered something is difficult to match.
After a few weeks, if at all you do jkoin a course, you'll find yourself able to understand the course better, and also be able to ask better questions.
Also i needed guidance on how should i go about it . Is it necessary C/C++ in depth to learn such Linux subjects .
Try installing a Linux distribution on your computer, and then visit a number of site such as http://www.linux.org/ to get started.
You can get a Linux installation CD-ROM from magazines such as PC Quest, Linux for You, and perhaps Digit. You could try any of the Ubuntu/Knoppix/Debian/Suse/Redhat distributions.
You need not understand C/C++ in depth, but downloading the source code to some small tool (say, rsync), and then reading the configuration, build and installation scripts would prove helpful.
Thanks in anticipation
Do try to teach yourself, that's the best way to learn.
Best Regards Manoj Bohara
-- Sriram
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--- Manoj Bohara manoj_boharaforever@yahoo.co.in wrote:
system programming field . If anybody knows of any institute in Mumbai which
your email does not say much about whether you have done any programming so assuming you are a newbie, system programming is not exactly the best place to start. this is just my opinion and not meant to discourage you so dont be. its just that the learning curve is *very* steep for newbies and this is where mailing lists like this one, google and other resources can help you.
gives the right training and project to work on , i request to him/her to pass this information to me , it will be go great help to me since i am not aware of any institute in Mumbai .
while learning at an institute is a good way to begin and has its advantages, e.g cisco certification and others, which are more useful if you have already studied CS and want to specialise, otherwise imho, a waste of money (rather spend it on getting a second-hand machine to tinker with).
if you just want to learn linux for fun or want an alternative to windows os, and have not installed linux on your system but want to , ask at the mailing list and someone will help you out. (ofcourse, take a backup of *all* data _before_ tinkering with your system).
get a basic beginners book (second-hand books are avbl at fort and matunga) for unix/linux which has some explanation about the file structure in linux, command line, how the operating system (OS) works, etc.. if you cant find a suitable book try google using specific keywords, and print those pages (you will need it when your system crashes and you dont know what to do).
if you have installed linux (any distro like FC, Gentoo, ...) you can hang out at FC/gentoos mailing list for newbies or whatever they call it and learn.
suppose you have programming experience (or not) go to the site of your installed distro, say gentoo and search for to-do list there . they almost always have some tasks for which they need volunteers (even non-coders can write documentation, maintain packages, etc..), then join that list and sometimes you may get flamed but dont let that intimidate you.
Also i needed guidance on how should i go about it . Is it necessary C/C++ in depth to learn such Linux subjects .
I dont know if you are a programmer or you just want to use linux , but C/C++ is not needed to learn how to use linux, so to speak. Anyone (with little help :-) can use linux very easily.
comeback with linux related questions or anything specific like "i have this os and i want to dual-boot it with linux", etc.. .
Have fun !
Svaksh wrote:
get a basic beginners book (second-hand books are avbl at fort and matunga) for unix/linux which has some explanation about the file structure in linux, command line, how the operating system (OS) works, etc.. if you cant find a suitable book try google using specific keywords, and print those pages (you will need it when your system crashes and you dont know what to do).
Very true. A book with free CDs inside is the best way to get an idea of linux before jumping fully into it. Thats how I first installed Red Hat 8 in my older system. At that time I did not know much about mailing lists and google was just making its appearence. Internet was expensive too.
Regards,
Rony.
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On Thu, 2005-06-23 at 21:40, Manoj Bohara wrote:
Dear Members, My name is Manoj Bohara. Friends i needed some information regarding linux OS courses . I am deeply intrested in linux system programming field . If anybody knows of any institute in Mumbai which gives the right training and project to work on , i request to him/her to pass this information to me , it will be go great help to me since i am not aware of any institute in Mumbai .
Also i needed guidance on how should i go about it . Is it necessary C/C++ in depth to learn such Linux subjects . Thanks in anticipation
Hi Manoj, let me put forward my two pennies...
Most computer institutes in Mumbai teach Linux from an _administrative_ point of view, and not a _programming_ point of view. Also, beware that most of these institutes are crap and have no motivation to help you become good at Linux.( Flame me guys, but I say this from personal experience.) But joining a course which requires extensive hardware (routers, switches) like CCNA is probably justified. If you want to learn administration, then I suggest you look for a personal kind of coach and not an institute. That way, you not only pay less, but get much better quality as well.
If you want to learn linux programming, then as far as I know, no private institute teaches it. Perhaps CDAC has related course?
Most of Linux apps are written in C. You need to have a firm grasp of C before you think of doing anything else. You can skip C++. I am learning my Linux programming on my own, through the wonderful books that I have. Here are a list of books that you might find useful...
C: "The C programming language by K & R", "Let us C by Kanitkar". The latter is Windows specific, but a great one for beginners. You could introduce yourself to GCC by reading "C for Linux Programming - SAMS".(Good only for understanding GCC). List, is there any other book on GCC?
Shell Scripting: "Advanced Bash Scripting Guide - Mendel Cooper". The de-facto standard. The only problem with this this book is that its in excruciating detail. Also, its freely available for download. Google it!
Perl: "Learning Perl", "Programming Perl"(the de-facto standard) and "Advanced Perl Programming" (all by Oreilly). Those should turn you into a Perl guru!
If possible, also get yourself a mentor who has gone though it all.
Linux coding is an exciting and addictive world. All the best.
Regards,
NMK. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- US Navy uses Windows. Saddam, Osama, it's party time!
Sometime on Jun 24, NMK cobbled together some glyphs to say:
Perl: "Learning Perl", "Programming Perl"(the de-facto standard) and "Advanced Perl Programming" (all by Oreilly). Those should turn you into
Talking about perl. These are a bunch of guys who hate answering questions, and this was one of the early newsgroups I hung out on.
The results: 1. People there will either flame you or killfile you if you're not careful 2. An insanely huge amount of documentation.
In fact, the documentation is so huge, that it would take you almost a decade to need a book or ask a question on a mailing list - by which time you'll be an expert anyway. The problem of course is that not too many people like reading online docs, and of those that do, most don't realise that the docs are all on their own box so they don't even have to search the web for it, you just need to know the name of the doc... but then that's what /perltoc/ is for :)
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Abhishek Daga -
Amol Hatwar -
Kenneth Gonsalves -
Manoj Bohara -
Nadeem M. Khan -
Philip Tellis -
Rony Bill -
Sriram N -
Svaksh