Just a suggestion : Re-read my email...

I think only those may get cross posted emails who are members of more than one list. Now, why would one want to be member of more than one list? For the same reason one would want to post on more than one list. If there is something not specific to one region -- like national level why should other lists be deprived of it? If India goes for FOSS policy, where would one post it? iLUGD, Mumbia, Pune, Chennai? Or may to to as many as possible to keep everyone informed.

So, I guess cross-posting is OK.

Swapnil

Greetings,

IS it not possible to have one ILUG group so cross posting can be avoided?

Regardss,

Rajajgopal

On 5/20/11, Binand Sethumadhavan binand@gmail.com wrote:

2011/5/17 Narendra Sisodiya narendra@narendrasisodiya.com:

...

We are seeing an increasing trend of crossposting of email on most of the LUGs of India.. So can we stop this???

What is your problem with cross posting? After all, it is natural that something that is on-topic on one LUG mailing list is also on-topic on several other. Any half-decent MDA will deliver only one copy of a cross-posted mail, so it does not affect the end user either.

Binand

http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers

Greetings,

Any rationale for 'no'?

Regards,

Rajagopal

On 5/20/11, Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@thenilgiris.com wrote:

On Fri, 2011-05-20 at 07:21 +0530, Rajagopal Swaminathan wrote:

...

IS it not possible to have one ILUG group so cross posting can be avoided?

no

regards KG http://lawgon.livejournal.com Coimbatore LUG rox http://ilugcbe.techstud.org/

-- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers

On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 07:21:13AM +0530, Rajagopal Swaminathan wrote:

IS it not possible to have one ILUG group so cross posting can be avoided?

Is it possible to have a single LUG globally so that cross posting can be completely eliminated?

2011/5/21 Narendra Sisodiya narendra@narendrasisodiya.com:

but till now we (the people of Bharat) never shown-ed any Unity...

Do you mean unity = you propose, everyone else follows? What exactly is wrong with the current system (or lack of it)?

Binand

On Saturday 21 May 2011 16:10:11 Nishit Dave wrote:

And if all LUGs stopped fighting over etiquette, we could have some collaboration and progress.

If every one behaved like you, we will have to have a couple of petabytes more storage just to store repeat junk, 4 eyes -1 for toppost and one for bottom post, etc.

On 05/21/2011 04:10 PM, Nishit Dave wrote:

On May 21, 2011 3:56 PM, "Narendra Sisodiya" narendra@narendrasisodiya.com wrote:

...

I wish if it can happen.. but I strongly recommend for a single mailing list for BOTPG (Bharat Open Technology Promoters Group) so that dedicated people who want to promote FOSS/OpenStandards can work collaboratively. I basically recommend TASK - based mailing list... If purpose of two mailing list overlap 100% then they must merge otherwise collaboration is ok. Also, till now, foss promotion and contribution is done at individual

level

...

(or at a small group) but till now we (the people of Bharat) never shown-ed any Unity... --

And if all LUGs stopped fighting over etiquette, we could have some collaboration and progress.

Without etiquette there will be chaos. This applies to all walks of life.

On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 3:55 PM, Narendra Sisodiya narendra@narendrasisodiya.com wrote:

.... snip ....

but I strongly recommend for a single mailing list for BOTPG (Bharat Open Technology Promoters Group) so that dedicated people who want to promote FOSS/OpenStandards can work collaboratively.

I thought the fosscomm mailing list was for this purpose.

I basically recommend TASK - based mailing list... If purpose of two mailing list overlap 100% then they must merge otherwise collaboration is ok.

Who is going to decide that? Who is going to do the M&A integration of the multiple lists?

... snip ...

Besides, an all India mailing list [a] already exists but the traffic there is very low. This suggests that people prefer to join the "local" ILUG mailing list.

[a] "ILUG-LIH" linux-india-help@lists.sourceforge.net,

On 23/05/11 7:27 PM, Narendra Sisodiya wrote:

Fosscomm didn't worked out well.

I beg to disagree. FOSSCOMM has been very successful in a lot of areas.

I want a mailing list do DOERS (those who do something for foss rather then sitting and doing mailing list work).. So a dedicated network for FOSS promoters.. Or you can say.. a mailing list for all FOSS advertiser and promoters..

Why not start it? Nobody is stopping you. I wish you all luck and success.

This dedicated mailing list can produce WhitePaper on status of FOSS and recommendation as well as give a report on what need to be done.. "What need to be done" -- this is a most important aspect...

That's the problem. Even when it comes to the country, everyone has ideas about what needs to be done. Nobody goes out there and does it.

We all are singing.. (like in bazzar.. everybody try to sell his veg ).. so I think, FOSS promotion should have a strategy in it.. ..

Promotion where? If you are talking government and education, I'd agree. But then FOSSCOMM has already done tons of work there with great outcomes.

For the CS student or even the mango man, the era of promotion is over. Most of them know what FOSS is, and there is a great body of knowledge on the Internet. They don't need lists like this.

Cheers,

Amol Hatwar

On 23/05/11 8:04 PM, Narendra Sisodiya wrote:

This is not a way to do it.. I do most of my work like "ekela chalo.." but there is nothing wrong in discussing,, Community Discussion prior to prior to any action is always very helpful in community adoption of new things..

Agree. Nothing wrong in discussion. But I am generally wary of discussions that turn into obdurate arguments.

I know,, I am part of FOSSCOMM and working too but This is a math paper of 100 number with 3 hour,, we do not think that we have 2 days to complete it.. I repeat the process/promotion/speed is not just sufficient..

Maybe, maybe not. All I can say is that one can't change societal habits any faster than the society's own whims and wishes.

Select a random colony of your city.. Do a poll you will get to know about the FOSS knowledge.. Thanks for idea.. I will do this in next Sunday at "S N market - Delhi" and interview random 100 young people..

Hope you'll share your findings here :o).

Cheers,

Amol Hatwar

On Tuesday 24 May 2011, Rony wrote:

As mentioned by Amol, FOSS promotion is no longer needed. In software what I have observed is that good, handy and easy to install and learn software will always get popular and users will flock to it. That should be the one and only goal for FOSS development.

Hmm, I have ideological issues with that. So padding my backside for the kicking it's sure to get on this list...

The primary reason for adoption of FOSS should be ideological. As long as you keep promoting practical reasons for adoption, you will lose out in the long run.

For instance, someone claims that FOSS is cheaper than the proprietary alternative. Does that mean we should start promoting (say) Winduhs if MS starts giving it away without charge just because it's easier to use? Similar arguments apply to any characteristic of FOSS you choose (security, efficiency, etc.) APART from the freedom-related arguments. Some of these include:

- Not being tied to a specific vendor for support - Ability to customise the package for own requirements - Ability to audit the package for security - Ability to strip down the package for non-standard uses - Ability to use parts of the package in other packages - Ability to localise the package without vendor intervention - Ability to port the package to other platforms

Note that all of these are absolute; relative comparisons (faster than, cheaper than, more secure than, easier to use than, etc.) have no place in promotion of FOSS IMNSHO. In any case, if you manage to push enough people to use a package for absolute, freedom-centric reasons, there will be enough developers jumping on to make the relative comparisons favourable :)

Regards,

-- Raj

On Tuesday 24 May 2011, Rony wrote:

On 05/24/2011 01:18 PM, Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) wrote:

...

Note that all of these are absolute; relative comparisons (faster than, cheaper than, more secure than, easier to use than, etc.) have no place in promotion of FOSS IMNSHO. In any case, if you manage to push enough people to use a package for absolute, freedom-centric reasons, there will be enough developers jumping on to make the relative comparisons favourable :)

Another way to look at the same points would be to make the FOS software so irresistible that when users flock to it, they get the added benefits of freedom and portability etc.

...until someone makes a more irresistible proprietary software and users flock to that, hurling freedom and portability out of the window in the process.

Regards,

-- Raj

On 05/24/2011 02:19 PM, Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) wrote:

On Tuesday 24 May 2011, Rony wrote:

...

On 05/24/2011 01:18 PM, Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) wrote:

...

Note that all of these are absolute; relative comparisons (faster than, cheaper than, more secure than, easier to use than, etc.) have no place in promotion of FOSS IMNSHO. In any case, if you manage to push enough people to use a package for absolute, freedom-centric reasons, there will be enough developers jumping on to make the relative comparisons favourable :)

Another way to look at the same points would be to make the FOS software so irresistible that when users flock to it, they get the added benefits of freedom and portability etc.

...until someone makes a more irresistible proprietary software and users flock to that, hurling freedom and portability out of the window in the process.

Utility and ease of use will always be king.

On Thursday 26 May 2011 10:39:38 am Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:

On Wed, 2011-05-25 at 21:59 +0530, Rony wrote:

...

...

...until someone makes a more irresistible proprietary software and users flock to that, hurling freedom and portability out of the

window

...

in the process.

Utility and ease of use will always be king.

agreed - anything based on ideology will always flop - I have seen any number of people wildly enthusiastic about free software for the wrong (ideological) reasons until *they* develop something marketable.

Like build a successful product and ideology will form around it.

What is termed as ideology is only partly so. It is mainly methodology. FOSS methodology arose from a certain ideology, just like other development methodologies. One can't develop methodology without an underlying ideology or core principle/s.

There might be successful products by seat of pants methodology, but that is not a very repeatable method. There will also be unsuccessful products even after following ideology / methodology. But then others will be able to refine the method.

On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com wrote:

Another way to look at the same points would be to make the FOS software so irresistible that when users flock to it, they get the added benefits of freedom and portability etc.

I already see that happening in mobile space.

Android is #1 player (in terms of marketshare) in Smartphone ecosystems. And I can do pretty much anything on my Android devices.

Users don't care about freedom, but they do care that Android phones are now available for 9k. And a nice UI on top of Linux makes it usable by common people.

-Shamit

On 24/05/11 12:39 PM, Rony wrote:

On 05/23/2011 08:04 PM, Narendra Sisodiya wrote:

...

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Amol Hatwãr amol.hatwar@exceed.co.inwrote:

...

For the CS student or even the mango man, the era of promotion is over. Most of them know what FOSS is,

Select a random colony of your city.. Do a poll you will get to know about the FOSS knowledge.. Thanks for idea.. I will do this in next Sunday at "S N market - Delhi" and interview random 100 young people..

As mentioned by Amol, FOSS promotion is no longer needed. In software what I have observed is that good, handy and easy to install and learn software will always get popular and users will flock to it. That should be the one and only goal for FOSS development.

Disclaimer: FOSS needs more blood in terms of developers who will go the extra mile and publish code in the spirit of freedom. FOSS already has critical mass, the revolution is already practically feeding itself.

The only evangelism and intervention that is needed (I think) is in places where a few make decisions for many. And FOSSCOMM has been pretty successful in that area.

Cheers,

Amol Hatwar

Greetings,

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Amol Hatwãr amol.hatwar@exceed.co.in wrote:

Most of them know what FOSS is,

With my humble experience with students and 'teachers', 'professors', 'lecturerers' in the trenches of popular schools, colleges etc. and IMHO your could as well be living in Pluto.

No personal offense intended please.

I visited Nashik, Kalyan, some other places in Maharashtra (I agree it is not entire India) and what you are talking makes absolutely no sense to them.

...

With millions of members all over the globe, reading one day's mails will take a month or two.

I agree. I think the idea of local lists is that you can discuss local issues without being buried under the load of unwanted mails. However, at times and with care cross-posting can be done. For example if India goes for FOSS policy, where would one post it? It should be posted at as many LUGs possible so all members are aware and participate. Similarly, if one has a problem and need immediate solution should she post only to one list assuming someone on this list only will have the solution?

Cross posting is tricky and should be done with care realising what you want to achieve.

Swapni

On 05/23/2011 12:12 AM, Anurag wrote:

Irgendwann am Sun, May 22, 2011 an 05:36:39PM +0530, schrieb Rony:

...

With millions of members all over the globe, reading one day's mails will take a month or two.

Global lists like ubuntu-users generate 3000 mails in a typical month. That's 100 mails a day!!

Once we (everyone) join those lists we will take this number to new mind boggling heights. ;-)