Linuxers November 2002

linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in

125 participants
298 discussions

[OT] Acronymize your name
by vinayak 10 Nov '02

10 Nov '02

Enter your name in the textbox @ the following page and your will be amused with the result. http://www.brunching.com/cyborger.html If you don't like the generated output , don't flame me ;-). Be careful it can be addictive. ;-) ---> Vinayak Hegde

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Re: Re: [ILUG-BOM] windows vs Linux (fwd)
by vinayak 10 Nov '02

10 Nov '02

Hi, Check out this site www.gimp-savvy.com and I bet you will change your opinion. Especially chk out the book "Grokking the GIMP" available for free on the site. --> Vinayak Hegde ########################## -------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Tahir Hashmi <code_martial(a)softhome.net> To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in On Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:07:00 -0500 (EST) Bhargav Bhatt wrote: > substitute, with the exception of the GIMP. This program, although > very powerful, does not present an intuitive interface to the user. I could do the editing equivalent of MS PhotoEditor just by exploring the items in the right-click menu and following tool-tips for all the tools on the main window. There's an excellent manual available for GIMP at www.gimp.org if you want to master the advanced features. It pays to learn GIMP, IMHO :-) -- Tahir Hashmi (VSE, NCST) http://staff.ncst.ernet.in/tahir -------------------------- ##########################

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] windows vs Linux (fwd)
by Bhargav Bhatt 09 Nov '02

09 Nov '02

Prince, First of all, basing your judgement on Red Hat alone is not a very bright idea. You should try other user friendly distributions like Xandros, Mandrake, Lycoris etc etc, before feeling disappointed about the desktop/multimedia capacities of Linux. I am using Slackware Linux 8.1, after experimenting with RedHat, Mandrake, Suse and Debian, for almost all my desktop needs. The following is a list of windows programs *i* would consider important for a desktop user and their availibility in Linux. Programs Windows Linux --------------------------------------------------------------- Web Browser IE,Netscape Mozilla,Netscape E-mail, PIM Outlook, OE Evolution, Kmail MP3 Player Winamp XMMS Media Player Windows Media Player mplayer, xine Productivity MS Office Open Office, Star Office. P2P File Sharing Kazaa, Morpheus LimeWire Image Editing Photoshop Gimp Instant Messaging MSN, Yahoo, ICQ GAIM(MSN, Yahoo, ICQ, etc) IRC mIRC X-Chat, KVIRC etc. [I am not bothering to include editors because, besides the fact that there a plethora of them available for Linux, i have seen that most windows users prefer using word processors like MS Word, even for editing purposes. Also, luggerz, please dont feel bad if ur favorite browser, etc is not included above. This is more or less what i feel that a desktop susbtitute for windows should need.] *All* the above mentioned substitutes for windows applications available in Linux, IMO, out perform their Windows counterpart in terms of stability and security(where applicable). As you can see, all the commonly reqd windows desktop applications have Linux substitues. The most important factor however, is the ease of use which is where, most people *think* windows is better than Linux. However, beg to defer. IMHO, all the applications listed on the linux side above are as easy to use as their Windows substitute, with the exception of the GIMP. This program, although very powerful, does not present an intuitive interface to the user. mplayer, although command line, has nice GUIs available to make it look/feel like WMP. Just my two cents, HTH. Bhargav Bhatt, Department of Applied Physics and Applied Mathematics, Columbia University. "If English was commutative, all of us could speak like Yoda" - Anonymous ----- Original Message ----- From: "Prince" <iamprince(a)eudoramail.com> To: "ilug" <linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:52 AM Subject: [ILUG-BOM] windows vs Linux > > Hi there , all experts of Linux > > this is Prince asking the most important Questions ? > > can anybody send me the complete list of points : > 1] > " In what way Linux is better [ can be ] for DESKTOP PC , for normal user ? " > i repeat ..... For NORMAL user . > > i know it's best for all Networking purposes ,,,,but abt new enthu people who wants to try Linux as there Day to Day > Default desktop OS ? > > 2] > What abt others who are normal users & wanna try Linux for a Ultimate experience ? > where we are lacking to put this Linux OS in front of them ? [ we are only enjoying this thing & sharing between our > selves ] > > > i got Linux Redhat 8.0 > it's ok > [ my xmms is without mp3 support ] , no software got MPEG with redhat windows [ not talking abt KDE & gnome pack ] > > waiting for reply , > Prince [ Agent 1 ] > " Digitalagents " > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/listinfo/linuxers >

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rh8 sawfish
by Brian Pang 09 Nov '02

09 Nov '02

I got rid of metacity by as root rpm -e firstboot rpm -e metacity (firstboot was the only dependency) log out of gnome log back in using failsafe (if graphical, else, just log back in on the command line) edit the file /home/~user/.gconf/desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager changing /usr/bin/metacity to /usr/bin/sawfish log back into gnome if I tried to make the change with the "System Tool" terminal, metacity would change the file back to using metacity. grrr.. so that's why I deleted it and did it outside of gnome. however, you cannot save window attributes, still... had to log out and "Save Current Setup"... geesh... >From linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in Tue Oct 22 18:36:54 2002 From: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in (Green, Shaun) Date: Tue Oct 22 18:36:54 2002 Subject: [ILUG-BOM] RedHat 8 - Switching back to Sawfish Message-ID: <CBA5720BD606864A8D6FFFE53D4B81F201585D0C(a)nsstcex2.nsstc.nasa.gov> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C27922.62009710 Content-Type: text/plain Does anyone know how to switch off this terrible bluecurve crap and get back to Sawfish?? I want to use my GTK themes; like BlueHeart. Thanks, Shaun linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in (Tahir Hashmi) Date: Wed Oct 9 11:52:43 2002 Subject: [ILUG-BOM] [rant] Red Hat 8 Desktop under-featured and less configurable Message-ID: <20021009113608.3443df87.code_martial(a)softhome.net> Hi Linuxers! Okay, Gnome2 and Bluecurve look really cool, especially with AA fonts but there's quite a lot that I didn't like. Here are the issues (when I say that something "is" or something "isn't", it is supposed to be *AFAIK* and not the absolute truth): - Under-featured window manager: The MetaCity Window manager doesn't have any options for layering management and attribute memory. I can't keep EveryBuddy on top now. - No options for custom keyboard short-cuts: Unlike Enlightenment or Sawfish, there's no provision for having keyboard shortcuts to run commands. There's a lot more move-move click-click involved now. - No option to switch Window Managers! I installed RH8 clean on one system and upgraded another. The former doesn't have sawfish, the latter doesn't have an option to switch Window Managers, even though it has Sawfish. - Complicated Menu: The main menu is now more broad than deep a la KDE and that was one of the main reasons why I didn't like KDE. - Overall lack of customizability I could go on and on but to summarize, a lot of customizability that Gnome users had grown accustomed to is now gone and the overall feel has a lack of "freedom". - The Terminal is now a "System Tool" (duh!) I looked around the Net a little and I didn't find many people ranting about these things. Is it just me? Am I missing something? I'd be grateful if some of you could give some pointers. TIA

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For Open Source Advocates ..( Microsofts internal memo on the opensource initiative )
by Kiran Nadgir 08 Nov '02

08 Nov '02

The document reproduced below was presented at a Microsoft internal Linux Strategic Review held at the Microsoft offices in Berlin during Sept. 2002 Open-source software advocates have concluded that a leaked Microsoft Corp. memorandum detailing a survey it conducted of IT professionals on their views of open-source software shows that Microsoft's public relations tactics on open source are failing and that, to win out against the software giant, open-source software advocates need only "stay the course http://www.opensource.org/halloween/halloween7.php ----------------------------------------------------------------- Kiran Nadgir Mahindra British Telecom. Tel : 6922000 extn - 8070. Mobile - 9820444403. Email - kirann(a)mahindrabt.com WebSite: www.mahindrabt.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- Quote of the week ~~ If you have it [love], you don't need to have anything else, and if you don't have it, it doesn't matter much what else you have. --Sir James M. Barrie ~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- ************************************************************** Scanned by eScan Content-Security and Anti-Virus Software. Visit http://www.mwti.net for more info on eScan and MailScan. ************************************************************** ********************************************************* Disclaimer This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. ********************************************************* Visit us at http://www.mahindrabt.com

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windows vs Linux
by Prince 08 Nov '02

08 Nov '02

Hi there , all experts of Linux this is Prince asking the most important Questions ? can anybody send me the complete list of points : 1] " In what way Linux is better [ can be ] for DESKTOP PC , for normal user ? " i repeat ..... For NORMAL user . i know it's best for all Networking purposes ,,,,but abt new enthu people who wants to try Linux as there Day to Day Default desktop OS ? 2] What abt others who are normal users & wanna try Linux for a Ultimate experience ? where we are lacking to put this Linux OS in front of them ? [ we are only enjoying this thing & sharing between our selves ] i got Linux Redhat 8.0 it's ok [ my xmms is without mp3 support ] , no software got MPEG with redhat windows [ not talking abt KDE & gnome pack ] waiting for reply , Prince [ Agent 1 ] " Digitalagents "

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LINK: Taking the FLOSS debate into the 'development' campaign...
by Frederick Noronha 08 Nov '02

08 Nov '02

Just to share with you: I've come across this fascinating presentation by an EU official in Vietnam, who argues that 'development' organisation in the First World should throw their weight behind Free/Libre and Open Source Software. This is a fascinating set of arguments. So far, few in the 'development/NGO network' (apart from rare exceptions like Sunil Abraham of Mahiti.org in Bangalore and the Sarai network in Delhi, and the Dehradun-based publishers of 'Software Freedom') have appreciate the power of, or worked seriously on, FLOSS. [Disclosure of interest: I have received a print-media fellowship from Sarai in the past year.] Interestingly, this document is released under the terms and conditions of the GNU Free Documentation License. Surely a worthy read. I would encourage everyone interested in taking this debate forward to please persue it. If you would like a copy, just send mail to fred(a)bytesforall.org with the subjectline FLOSS-PRESENTATION. Thank you. FN PS: My apologies for reducing very interesting arguments to a few bytes of poorly-represented text. My limited abilities did not allow me to convert the speaker notes, words he used and graphics into extracts in text suitably. The presentation does a better job of that. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * FREE/LIBRE OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE AS OFFICIAL DEVELOPMENT AID Jordi Carrasco-Mu�oz EC Delegation to Vietnam jordi(a)bigfoot.com jordi.carrasco-munoz(a)delvnm.cec.eu.int _________________ Disclaimer: - The text represents the author's opinions only - Text released under GNU Free Documentation License - Request copies to the author - FORTHCOMING: Global Implementation Plan Developing countries can neither miss the benefits of the IT revolution, nor afford its cost (IPRs in particular) Donors and multilaterals have a responsibility to provide an alternative, if available FLOSS is today the only alternative available PROPOSAL ODA-FLOSS will be implemented. Why? The question is: Who will be the first to do it? I.T. REVOLUTION IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES IT is today's Industrial Revolution Ability to leapfrog into latest technology Complement Industrial Development Small IT clusters, even in remote areas... Quotes: "Cost Windows XP + MS Office: Standard Version $560. Professional Version $800. a) COST (for a country like) VIETNAM (where the GDP per capita $440/year) XP+Office = 1 Year 3 months. XP+Office (Pro) = 1 Year 10 months. a) COST (III) Cost-Equivalent for the US (GDP per capita $30,200/Year). XP+Office = $38,436 XP+Office (Pro) = $54,909. (Is it very surprising that the) percentage of pirated Software in Vietnam (is) 97%" Source of information: Amazon.com (13 May 2002) "Microsoft 2000 localised in 24 languages. There are 8,500 languages in the world.... Open Office can be localised in 2 weeks." "Like science, FLOSS builds as a community, on top of past work." "No backdoors + No spyware." "All software (on a sponsored distro) must be Free/Libre as defined by the Free Software Foundation.... All applications must be fully localised and documented... Include Open Office. Why? ... The first version must be Windows-based. Why?" "Pareto's 80/20 Rule applied to software -- (20% of applications solve 80% of needs). Substitutes a key application. Example for users that Open Source works. Other candidates: Mozilla, MySQL, Gimp, ... (suggestions welcome) Why a Windows FLOSS CD-ROM? MS Windows is the way towards a full FLOSS system (for private users).... Microsoft Windows runs on 94% of desktops. Private users cannot be forced into FLOSS. We must earn their trust in FLOSS." "Cost of a FLOSS CD-Rom: (quotation: www.goldenrom.com). 10.000 Copies - $4,600 50,000 Copies - $17,500 100,000 Copies - $32,000 500,000 Copies - $135,000 1,000,000 Copies - $250,000. Cost of ODA-FLOSS CD-Rom for one-fourth of 'pirate' computers." "Recycling legislation: Cheaper shipping PCs to developing countries than recycling them (also tax deductible). Donated PCs tend to be stripped of parts, software or licenses, using a FLOSS OS is an obvious choice." "India (Simputer), Brazil, etc... are creating low-cost computers targeted to low-income communities"

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Re: GPL Fonts
by Frederick Noronha 08 Nov '02

08 Nov '02

That's very kind of you Michael. I'll pass on your note to others who might be interested. -- Frederick -- Frederick Noronha * Freelance Journalist * Goa * India 832.409490 / 409783 BYTESFORALL www.bytesforall.org * GNU-LINUX http://linuxinindia.pitas.com Email fred(a)bytesforall.org * Mobile +9822 122436 (Goa) * Saligao Goa India Writing with a difference... on what makes *the* difference On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Michael Steidley wrote: > Hello! > > I recently read your article in Linux Journal about Indian language > solutions in linux. > > I'm a graphics designer and digital media specialist. I've been creating > fonts for over ten years and I'm interested in helping create fonts for > Indian languages which do not have any GPL fonts available. > > If you could put me in contact with someone concerning this matter I would > greatly appreciate it. > > Thank you for your time. > > > --Michael Steidley >

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Let's combine powers
by Prince 08 Nov '02

08 Nov '02

Hi there , it first time digitalagents is asking people to combine power : You may ask these questions : & here is the answer # for whome ? for all the people out there using MS [ Microsucks ]windows there are some reasons why they are doing like this : Linux what is that ? they do not know much abt Linux & it's power they think Linux is not upto that level [ they have not seen REdhat 8.0 yet ] they think its hard to learn linux their fundamentals are not clear abt linux & system & most important : you people [ me also ] are not taking any efforts to make the clear idea abt Linux . for what ? to take as many people with RIGHT & PERFECT OS [ that's Linux ] why we should do this ? cause you are making mistakes by just writting vanila text for linux people & not for all those Bill's fans [ windows users ] because you want to promote linux straight from your heart because you hate Bill's blue screen of death because you only can do because Linux is great because you can make it much better who we are ? basically Digitalagents is a Group of people in INDIA taking lead in awareness of BEST ways of computing , All Free of cost . We provide the best information for FREE . If we say Linux is the best , We should prove it ! we need your help guys ! What you have to do ? in a very simple & short lines Write for all those MS users : 1] the short story abt Linux [ history ] 2] the points why Linux is better than Windows 3] what abt Linux on Desktop PC for Day-to-Day life activity ? 4] which are tools like MS windows = Linux 5] The list of Best softwares in Linux See friends we have to take this step , select any of the above 5 points & write few words but it should be perfect [ if you only confident abt what you say , as you have to prove it ] on your key strokes we [ in india ] can make revolution & can put Linux in front of everyone ! do something ! Let's combine the power & make a Complete & solid text " Why Linux ? " be a part of digitalagents Join the revolution ! make it in Linux - Way ! digitalagents(a)indiatimes.com _Agent1

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NEWS- Stallman: Disk, I/O issues delay GNU OS
by Frederick Noronha 08 Nov '02

08 Nov '02

Stallman: Disk, I/O issues delay GNU OS By John Ribeiro November 6, 2002 2:54 pm PT BANGALORE, INDIA -- The release of a production version of the free GNU operating system (OS) has been delayed beyond the end of the year, as the current development version of the system does not support large disk partitions and high speed serial I/O (input-output), according to Richard Stallman, president of the Boston-based Free Software Foundation (FSF). "I would say that when two features that are that essential are still missing, we are not at version 1.0 of the system yet," Stallman told IDG News Service in an interview this week in Bangalore. Stallman was however noncommittal on a new release date. In an interview in March, Stallman said that the production version of the GNU OS was likely to be ready by the end of this year. Developers working on the current development version of the GNU system, also called the GNU/Hurd to distinguish it from GNU/Linux, have found limitations in the Hurd kernel and the GNU Mach microkernel, according to Stallman. "There are two problems that have to be solved," Stallman said. "One of them is the lack of high-speed, serial-line handling, and the other is the limit on the size of a file system which is at somewhere between one to two gigabytes, which means that if you get a moderate size disk you have to divide it into smaller partitions, which is a nuisance." To solve the serial port problem, the GNU project is switching from the GNU Mach to the OSKit Mach, a Mach based on the OSKit for OS development from the University of Utah in Salt Lake City, Utah. "That version of Mach is supposed to get high speed serial line support, although it apparently isn't there in yet," Stallman said. Before the GNU project could switch to the OSKit Mach, it had to rewrite the [Image]terminal support in the Hurd to support virtual consoles. The GNU project has also got developers to work on the problem of the limit on the size of the current Hurd file system. "There are many other things that we want to do that will make the Hurd better, but resolving this issue (of the limit on the size of the file system) is absolutely essential," added Stallman. "I don't think it was realized how bad it is practically speaking not to be able to use whatever your disk partitioning is. Clearly most people are not going to repartition their disks to be able to try out our Hurd based system." Currently some users work with a development version of the GNU/Hurd system distributed by the open source Debian Project. The FSF is also modifying the GNU General Public License (GPL), though the fundamental principles will remain unchanged, according to Stallman. "We have looked at, for example, adding a clause that explicitly states that you give a patent license when you redistribute the software," Stallman added. FSF also plans to incorporate into the GNU GPL a section covering use of software on a computer network. This new section is likely to be on a similar section in the Affero GPL adopted by San Francisco-based Affero Inc. The Affero GPL requires anyone modifying a software program to give immediate access by HTTP (Hypertext Transfer Protocol) to the complete source code of the modified software to other users interacting with the software on the network, if the original program had a provision for this kind of access. John Ribeiro is an India-based correspondent for the IDG News Service, an InfoWorld affiliate. http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/02/11/06/021106hngnudelay.xml?s=IDG NS ENDS

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Linuxers November 2002