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ubuntu dapper drake: apache tries to open PHP pages as phtml text files
by Abhishek Daga 28 Oct '06

28 Oct '06

My LAMP configuration (default install) on ubuntu dapper drake was working fine uptil now. I tried to install php curl and in the process uninstalled/reinstalled a couple of packages for php and restarted apache. ever since, my php files are being recognised as phtml files and firefox tries to OPen or Download it...i.e. the box pops up. The following packages are installed: apache2 apache2-common apache2-mpm-prefork apache2-utils php5 php5-cgi php5-cli php5-cgi php5-common php5-curl php5-gd I added/these lines existed the following in /etc/apache2/apache2.conf file AddType application/x-httpd-php .php .phtml AddType application/x-httpd-php-source .phps AddType application/x-httpd-php .inc AddType application/x-httpd-php .class AddType application/x-tar .tgz AddHandler cgi-script .cgi any ideas as to why something that was working perfectly fine got messed up? thanks abhishek __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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Mobile Data Card on Linux OS
by ming 27 Oct '06

27 Oct '06

Hi We are looking for Mobile Data Card for sending and receiving SMS from Desktop PC running Linux OS. ( Drivers for Data Card on linux ) Any Make available. Any Vendor contacts available. Also what are the types of Interfaces available for card to install it in a desktop PC. What are the available speeds of reading SMS from the Data card Thanks Regards Mng --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

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Help: Configuring IQARA Broadband on FC5
by Rakesh Venkat 27 Oct '06

27 Oct '06

Hi, I am dual booting FC5 with Windoze on a Toshiba Laptop(Tecra S2). I have a broadband connection from IQARA broadband. Has anyone got IQARA running on linux? Could you help me out with some instructions on how to go about this? I have tried the following so far : In Network Connections, I created a new xDSL connection named Iqara which uses dialup for getting IP information. Besides this, there is also an Inactive Ethernet connection on eth0 (the Ethernet Card--Marvell-something-something, recognized correctly). The Inactive ethernet connection is set to start up and determine IP information using DHCP. This sometimes fails to bring up the eth0 interface with the following error: Determining ip information.... <then gives Failed>. Now, on trying the Iqara connection, it starts up properly. But the problem is that this happens only sporadically.... bringing up eth0 more often than not is reporting the following error: Determining ip information:.... Failed; no link present, Check cable? If this happens then Iqara also fails to start up. At the same time, on Windows, the connection works properly... odd, since I would have expected it to say something like "Network Cable unplugged". RP-PPoE also doesnt seem to work, though I am not sure of all the settings. Any help in setting it up is highly welcome... Thanks a lot, Rakesh

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CD ROM doesn't mount
by Aniket Suryavasnshi 26 Oct '06

26 Oct '06

I've recently installed Ubuntu (Breezy Badger, 5.10) on my computer. The problem is that most times I boot into M$ XP, the CD ROM drive doesn't get mounted. I have to reboot the system, after which the CD ROM drive gets mounted. Is this problem caused due to the installation of Ubuntu (I'd encountered one error during the installation process, but I don't remember that error now) or is it caused due to some other malfunctioning in XP? -- With eggs so cheap these days, there's no point running behind chicks! ;)

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Re: CD ROM doesn't mount
by Roshan 26 Oct '06

26 Oct '06

Aniket Suryavasnshi wrote: > Is this problem caused due to the installation of > Ubuntu (I'd encountered > one error during the installation process, but I > don't remember that error > now) or is it caused due to some other > malfunctioning in XP? Did you try mounting the CD-ROM in Ubuntu (if it has to be mounted manually) or does it mount automatically in Ubuntu? I had a similar problem, and I found that the drive was faulty, because, it didn't work in Windows, and even in Redhat Linux 9.0. You may also try unplugging the drive once, and check the cables and power supply of the drive. (I had tried this....) -- http://www.gnu.org.in __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: Forbes.com: Toppling Linux
by Vihan Pandey 26 Oct '06

26 Oct '06

> Asshole author who does not know the abc of what he is trying to > pontificate about. > > > > Asshole author who does not know the abc of what he is trying to > > pontificate about. > > didnot expect this from JTD or sud I say I sud have expected this from you > ? > >> Asshole author who does not know the abc of what he is trying to > >> pontificate about. > > > > didnot expect this from JTD or sud I say I sud have expected this > > from you ? > > i agree 100% with jtd - but didnt say anything because i knew he > would word it much better than i ever could A bit agressive JTD, but never the less justified. We ought to call these people what they are ;-) Anyway, i think the better way is to post comments on that article. At least people will be aware that the community will not take this lying down. i've posted my thoughts on : http://forums.forbes.com/forbes/board/message?board.id=stallmanreaction&mes… i've used an alias: edudkniht spelt backwards. i enchourage others to do the same. Regards, - vihan

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more flame bait
by Kenneth Gonsalves 26 Oct '06

26 Oct '06

hi check this out: http://www.macnn.com/blogs/?p=133 -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS lawgon(a)au-kbc.org http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/

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[OT] Unlimited Internet
by Rony 25 Oct '06

25 Oct '06

Hello All, On 21st Oct MTNL has advertised in the Mumbai Mirror that all customers of new CDMA 2000 1X Garuda FW and Garuda Mobile can get unlimited internet usage for an additional tarrif of just Rs. 299 per month under all the existing tarrif plans. It is yet to be updated on their website. So folks, the time is ripe for setting up that mobile wireless router in cars, taxis, buses for unlimited public internet usage without bothering about usage charges. The tiny motherboard discussed sometime back by others with integrated 266 MHz. processors and a simple external psu would be ideal for providing the tiny pc that dials through the MTNL phone and its ethernet output is given to the wireless router. This is just an imaginary concept..... Remember that bike advt. where the double decker bus is converted into a home because everyone is using that brand of bike for transport? "Public ka naya transport". I was imagining a Linux bus like that. A double decker bus that is dedicated to linux awareness. The lower deck has a lab with linux machines for demo and testing. It also has a counter that sells/distributes linux cds of different distros. The upper deck is for conferences and meetings, even ILUG-BOM meets. The bus will have its own power generator and wireless cum wired internet and LAN. If a chemical loo can be squeezed in, it will be totally independent of surroundings and can be parked in any area. Such a bus can regularly visit schools and colleges as they have the target audience and the space to park. It can also visit housing colonies to promote linux among the people with Linux 'melas'. The body of the bus is painted with catchy slogans and information that a person can read fast and get some idea of linux. Regards, Rony. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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DRM and starving artists [OT]
by jtd 25 Oct '06

25 Oct '06

"Weird Al" Yankovic had several hits in the past but could not get his newer works published by the music overlords. So he published it on the net. http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061024-8064.html Which brings us to the DRM worm and gplv3. does drm protect copyrighted works or merely extends tenure of crooked monopolies on distribution. Recently Yoko ono (wife of beatles John Lennon) sued a music company for deliberately misstating sales (and hence royalties) - a rather difficult propsition with online downloads. -- Rgds JTD

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problem remastering knoppix for a 256 mb USB pen drive.
by krishnakant Mane 25 Oct '06

25 Oct '06

hello all. I have gone through the remastering knoppix howto manual. the manual spoke of every thing but my requirement. I want to make a customised knoppix distro that can run from a 256 mb pen drive. as I had emailed before, my talking book reader needs that. JTD, Thanks for the link for the manual. the reason I did not ask any questions for a long time is because I was confirming that I am rest ashured that my problem is unsolved in the manual before asking uselessly on this list and crowding the trafic. but alas it is indeed unsolved. I believe I will format my pen drive with ext3 or riserfs file system. mostly I will go with ext3. now my question is how do I get knoppix to boot from my pen drive. no, I don't want dam small linux or any pre customised distro. correct me if I am wrong, butdam small linux or any other custom distro will contain gnome/ KDE, office productivity, and other things which I don't need. all I need here is a simple distro with no gui. the list of requirement is as follows. 1. bash and related tools. 2. standard c libraries so that my custom c programs can run. 3. festival speach synthesizer. 4. scanning and OCR softwares. I may just choose to have the libraries without the gui interface. and if there are console based OCR softwares, nothing like it. 5. grub boot loder (I think that must be obvious, sorry to sound stupid.). 6. a menu driven program that will start instead of the bash prompt after the system auto login. I don't want user to enter any username or password. 7. python interpreter I believe with the above requirement, I think 256 mb is more than sufficient. I have seen knoppix distros of about 200 mb with gui and other stuff (except open office of course). and yes, I have mentioned before that my pen drive has booted once with a custom slackware distro. so no problems booting gnu/linux from my pen drive. the only problem I am stuck with is that I can't find a way to get the only the above mentioned apps and create a custom distro that will boot from my pen drive with ext3 file system. I want to have it come up with my menu driven application instead of the default bash prompt. can any one help out in getting this work exactly as I want? thanks and regards. Krishnakant.

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Training in Linux kernel internals and programming
by Jojumon Kavalan 25 Oct '06

25 Oct '06

Hi, CDAC Mumbai wants to get some of its staff members to get trained in Linux kernel internals and programming. Any pointers to good institutions/individuals who provide such training? Thanks and regards, - Joju -- Everything should be made as simple as possible. But no simpler. - Albert Einstein Jojumon Kavalan KBCS Division, CDAC (Formerly NCST) Rain tree marg, Sector - 7, CBD Belapur, Navi Mumbai - 400614. Ph: 022 27565303 Ext: 305; Fax: 022 27560004 Home page: http://staff.cdacmumbai.in/joju Alt E-mail: joju(a)cse.iitb.ac.in

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Re: Training in Linux kernel internals and programming
by Roshan 24 Oct '06

24 Oct '06

Jojumon Kavalan wrote: > Thanks for all the responses, though few were a bit > senseless! My Apologies, if I diverted it to Off-topic discussions > Unavailability of experts in one or the other area > is a problem being > faced by many organisations like NCST. And that is > inevitable when > the experts leave the organisation for more > lucrative jobs! :) As suggested earlier, I too, would recommend you to join one of the IRC channels, where you'll _probably_ find people who would ready to take up this task. For details on the channel visit: http://db.glug-bom.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page -- http://foss.in __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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IBM sues Amazon [OT]
by jtd 24 Oct '06

24 Oct '06

IBM sues amazon for patent infringement. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/23/AR200610230… The dangers of software patents. Dont be surprised if sending a packet over a wire becomes illegal. This one would whittle down to a business methods thingy. what's so unique about putting up a webserver to display pics of stuff u want to sell?. GPLV3 anyone?. -- Rgds JTD

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Ubuntu mirror in India@IITM
by Aparna Appaiah 24 Oct '06

24 Oct '06

Dear linuxers, I wanted to inform you that in addition to having a Debian i386 repository, http://ftp.iitm.ac.in now also has a Ubuntu i386 repository. It is also an official mirror of kernel.org. The Ubuntu repository is at http://ftp.iitm.ac.in/ubuntu Regards, Aparna -- Aparna Appaiah

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need a tally alternative on gnu/linux.
by krishnakant Mane 24 Oct '06

24 Oct '06

hello jtd, Abhishek, kenneth and other friends on the list. I could have specially sent this email off list to those whose names I mentioned at the top. but I want more people to read this email for spreading awareness because what I am going to ask is a new subject for me as well. I need an accounting software that falls under the FOSS model. it should compeet with Talli so that even common business men will use it. I remember Abhishek telling me the other day that probably Kenneth has done some work in this direction. the good news for me from what he further told me is that it is in python. kenneth, is that true? can I get your source code so that I too can work on it or may be even improve it? regards. Krishnakant.

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Re: Re: [ILUG-BOM] PPPOE config problem at boot
by bimal pandit 23 Oct '06

23 Oct '06

Dear Osric, On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 osric fernandes wrote : >On 10/22/06, Dinesh Joshi <dinesh.a.joshi(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>How is the DNS configured? Prolly the DNS servers aren't getting >>configured. > >I have entered the Primary and Secondary DNS IP addresses in the >respective fields under the DNS tab of system-config-network. Is there >some other way to set it? > >-- >Regards, >OSRIC XAVIER FERNANDES > >-- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers You can also use "/etc/resolve.conf" file and could make entries as nameserver 202.138.103.100 nameserver 202.138.96.2 regards, Bimal Pandit

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PPPOE config problem at boot
by osric fernandes 22 Oct '06

22 Oct '06

Hi all, I am using Fedora Core 5 and I am connected to the internet using a cable broadband connection (Exatt net that is provided via a local cable provider in chembur called worldnet). I have configured the connection using system-cofig-network by first creating an Ethernet connection that uses static ip. Running pppoe -A gives me a list of access concentrators in which worldnet001 is mentioned (this is same as the service name that I use to create a pppoe connectoid in winxp using raspppoe). Next, I created an xDSL connection in system-config-network. I made the appropriate settings and I am able to connect. However the problem occurs whenever I boot my system. At booting it shows me Bringing up interface ppp0 [ OK ] But when I try to browse sites I am not able to do so. If I open system-config-network it shows that the device ppp0 is active. If I deactivate it and reactivate it, then I am able to browse websites. I am not able to understand why the link doesn't come up at boot. It used to connect at boot previously, but then I tinkered with some settings and I don't know what I did, but I am not able to get it to connect it at boot. Please give me your suggestions. Thanks in advance, Regards, OSRIC XAVIER FERNANDES

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Re: Training in Linux kernel internals and programming
by Roshan 21 Oct '06

21 Oct '06

"Arun K. Khan" wrote: > Depends on the experience of the person in the field > s/he is > researching. An analogy to this is the packet switched network (Internet). A packet has its headers,(source and destination), along with necessary information (its data), but to reach the destination, each router has to route the packet through the best possible way, where the router has the knowledge of how the network is. Dinesh Joshi wrote: > Research inherently is without guidance. Therefore, A packet, may not on its own reach anywhere it wants. Though, we may assume, the packet themselves will become intelligent, in the near future, to have all information contained within itself. With respect to the OP, and the subject line, "Understanding the Linux Kernel", Oreilly Publications, is a good book. -- http://sankoobaba.blogspot.com __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: Training in Linux kernel internals and programming
by Roshan 21 Oct '06

21 Oct '06

Shakthi Kannan wrote: > The Internet and the Free/Libre/Open Source > Community? http://www.kernelnewbies.org Dinesh A. Joshi wrote: > Research is dead in this country :( Or possibly, there aren't enough guides for research. --http://sankoobaba.blogspot.com __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: Where Redhat Linux 9.0 created a big problem!
by Roshan 21 Oct '06

21 Oct '06

Dinesh Joshi wrote: > Yes. And the behavior is quite justified for a > server class OS. The OS > didnt halt, did it? It prevented XOrg from starting > so that further > complications could be avoided. I know it may not be > the best way to > tell the user that you shuold replace the mouse but > still... :P The OS didn't halt. It prevented the X from starting. But I see this as a *big* problem for not so, technically inclined users. In Windows, usually, Windows 98 would pop up a message saying the mouse isn't detected or something of that sort. However, the normal user still has the GUI and can find out some way to work out. Redhat Linux 9.0, left only the konsole to run, leaving a normal user helpless. -- http://sankoobaba.blogspot.com __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Where Redhat Linux 9.0 created a big problem!
by Roshan 21 Oct '06

21 Oct '06

This isn't a big problem as such for me. But for windows users, moving to GNU/Linux (or GliNUx) possibly could be. My mouse failed working properly, tonight and I was really surprised to see what redhat linux 9.0 was trying to do. Somehow, there was a dependency in starting the console mouse service, which failed, and in turn, disallowed the X to start :( It asked me to attempt starting the X, and I tried a few times, assuming it would start without the mouse. It failed, and I quit. Shut the system, replaced a mouse (yes, I had a spare, won at a computer quiz competition in Ruia College ;) ) and restarted, and everything started working fine. Now, since it was Redhat Linux 9.0, I assume the OS is older and would consider the non-availability a big issue and avoid starting the GUI. However, do _newer_ and _different_ distro's face the same problem? -- http://sankoobaba.blogspot.com __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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FlashPlayer 9 beta available for Linux
by Arun K. Khan 21 Oct '06

21 Oct '06

FWIW FlashPlayer 9 beta available for Linux: http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer9.html -- Arun Khan

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Ask Bono To Stand With Us Against DRM
by പ്രവീണ്‍‌|Praveen 20 Oct '06

20 Oct '06

Hi, Defective by Design ( http://wwwdefectivebydesign.org ) is running a campaign encouraging Bono to take a stand on DRM will send a powerful message. Its your chance to be a prt of this campaign by signing the petition. We have reached about 5000 signatures and we are looking at 10000. So pass it on to your friends as well. <quote> Dear Bono, You have dedicated a major part of your life's work to fighting for good causes, bringing pressure to bear on the powerful and political elite to effect positive change. In the same way that you have called for action from world leaders, we now call upon you to look at the facts surrounding Digital Restrictions Management (DRM), and join us in demanding an end to handcuffs on technology and culture. </quote> Read the full petition and sign http://defectivebydesign.org/petition/bonopetition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bono Regards Praveen -- "Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn." -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr

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ADMIN: Greetings
by Devdas Bhagat 20 Oct '06

20 Oct '06

Please do not send festival greetings to a mailing list full of people you do not personally know. If you want to send a greeting, send it to individual contacts directly. Devdas Bhagat

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Flash on Linux
by Saswata Banerjee & Associates 20 Oct '06

20 Oct '06

Hi Please check out http://news.com.com/Adobe+releases+beta+of+Flash+for+Linux/2100-1012-612742… This should make many people happy. Regards Saswata

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first hand experience? Dreamweaver alternatives?
by Abhishek Daga 20 Oct '06

20 Oct '06

Can anyone recommend (first hand, sustained experience) for free and open sourced alternatives to dreamweaver? Thanks Abhishek __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: [CLOSED]No emails from mailman, any errors from my side?
by Roshan 20 Oct '06

20 Oct '06

Anurag wrote: > There were a dozen mails in the queue yet to be > delivered to > you. Might have been delivered by now. I'm looking > into the issue. Yahoo!, now is delivering it in time. I have received digests one by one. (Thanks to Anurag and Dinesh J. for helping) --http://sankoobaba.blogspot.com __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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No emails from mailman, any errors from my side?
by Roshan 20 Oct '06

20 Oct '06

MM admins, Are you receiving any server logs of the mailman of GLUG-BOM mailing list stating that emails are failing delivery at the following email address: d_rosh2001 at yahoo dot co dot in ? Though this should have only been to the admins, I am testing whether the mailman is actually accepting my mail:) -- http://www.gnu.org.in __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Chart of Novell's Counterclaims and SCO's Reply
by Harsh Busa 19 Oct '06

19 Oct '06

Groklaw has posted a lengthy table that details the legal exchanges between Novell and SCO. "Groklaw's E-man submitted a handy chart of Novell's Amended Counterclaims compared with the SCO's reply, so we can compare paragraph by paragraph and easily see what SCO is denying and what it is admitting. I find these charts so handy, and I hope you do too." http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061018074146358 -- __________________________ http://www.ebackend.com/blog

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] No emails from mailman, any errors from my side?
by Dinesh Joshi 19 Oct '06

19 Oct '06

On Thursday 19 October 2006 02:56, Roshan wrote: > Have you subscribed to digest mode? nope. > I haven't been receiving any digest for the past few > days, and therefore, thought Mailman is not able to > send me its digest. Better ask Anurag or some admin. -- Dinesh A. Joshi

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Re: accountant: 5K
by Kenneth Gonsalves 18 Oct '06

18 Oct '06

On 18-Oct-06, at 4:28 PM, Abhishek Daga wrote: > But, we still havent spoken about the accountants bit. > > So i'd like to make a start. I will start with a commitment of 5K a > month for the accountant atleast for the next 6 months. > It may not be enough, but its a start and more peolpe can pool in. > > So kenneth and krishnakant, as you two seem to be in the lead for the > programming aspect, can you work out the logistics? > Depending on that, we can locate the accountant in chennai or mumbai. i feel we can hold off on the accountant part for the time being. A paid person is only available for as long as he is paid for. I am sure saswata and you can provide enough inputs for now, and Rony has also promised an accountant who will help out. I have given an outline of my needs in: http://nrcfosshelpline.in/financial/AvSap all that is needed at present is to give advice regarding the points raised. You must forgive me for being a little cynical, because i have raised all these points and asked questions several times in the past and got nowhere. Once there is concrete comitment in terms of willingness to spend a little time putting in comments and suggestions, we can move to a more organised stage. Remember, the foss way is to aim small, commit often, do incremental improvements and test at each stage rather than have a grand plan before starting out. I am cc-ing the mailing list on this post as i see no reason why a couple of admins should drive us underground when we are in the process of finalising something - it is another thing after a group has been formed, separate mailing lists etc can be started. But at present no group has been formed and everything is at the stage of rough ideas and proposals. (It is not as if they were paying for the bandwidth or something) -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS lawgon(a)au-kbc.org http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/

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[COMMERCIAL] - Perl Programmer
by Rohan R. Almeida 18 Oct '06

18 Oct '06

Hi, Requirement is for a Perl programmer. The job is based in Mumbai with Internet Securities, Inc. (http://securities.com). Please note that this may initially involve a contract position with future possibilities of a permanent position. You must have: * A minimum of two years of experience in Perl * Experience with Linux systems * Worked with MySQL * Good communication skills * Understanding of loaders or some ETL tools will be added advantage Desired Perl skills * Experience with the DBI module (MySQL, Oracle) * Testing skills (Test::Simple, Test::More) * Know how to parse Excel and related files * Passionate about Perl programming Linux skills: * You should know your way around a Linux system * Shell scripting Please reply with your attached resume and any questions you may have. You can either reply directly to me or send your resume to Srinivas (sreddy(a)securities.com) Thanks, Rohan http://rohan.almeida.in

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[OT] Camera as a scanner.
by Rony 17 Oct '06

17 Oct '06

Hello All, At a meet in HBSCE, before the meet, in the canteen, Krish was explaining to me his project about converting books into talking ones by scanning the pages and converting them into text and text to speech. He mentioned about the difficulty in getting a low cost hand-held scanner. At that time I thought of a an idea of using a megapixel camera/camera phone instead of a scanner in order to speed up the scanning process. When we met Dr. Nagarjun, we mentioned this to him too and he found it feasible. A few days ago a client of mine asked me to checkout the 'MotoMing' cell phone as it had a business card reader along with some other good features. Today as I visited the websites and saw a flash demo, I was pleasantly surprised to know that it runs on linux and they use the same technique of clicking photos of the cards and extracting the text through OCR. So Krish can try out this method for his project too and this also gives me a positive feeling that the bar code based software transfer technique through a mp camera should be feasible in the sign posts for VI people idea that was discussed some time back. We only need to create our own algorithm for the OCR. Regards, Rony. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] need a tally alternative on gnu/linux.
by Abhishek Daga 17 Oct '06

17 Oct '06

>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ---- From: jtd <jtd(a)mtnl.net.in> To: "GNU/Linux Users Group, Mumbai, India" <linuxers(a)mm.glug-bom.org> Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 5:17:58 PM Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] need a tally alternative on gnu/linux. Solemn promise KG. There is a hughe opportunity for everyone here. And KG do flame me if i am not doing my bit (honest - if u want me to work). <<<<<<<<<< Frankly, this is a job now. So everyone involved has the right to flame the others not putting in their bit. KG, when will you be in mumbai next? What about the bangalore guys? Chennai? Pune? Surely they must be thinking about this too? -abhishek

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linux compatible motherboards.
by Debarshi 'Rishi' Ray 16 Oct '06

16 Oct '06

>> I use system-config-soundcard to set the sound card volume levels to >> full. Then did: >> [rishi@Sunflower ~]$ sudo /sbin/alsactl store 1 >> [rishi@Sunflower ~]$ sudo /sbin/alsactl restore 1 >> On running system-config-soundcard the volumes are again at the >> mid-point of the bar. > I believe you should use store 0 and restore 0 The same problem. -- "India is not, as people keep calling it, an underdeveloped country, but rather a developed nation in an advanced state of decay." --Shashi Tharoor

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Linux on 102 GGC
by Rony 16 Oct '06

16 Oct '06

Hello All, Kubuntu 6.06 live + installation cd was tried out on a P4 2.8 GHz. single core with Intel original 102 GGC motherboard and 1 GB RAM. The live session booted well with a successful startup sound and video resolution was good too. The client had to leave so that was the only test done but it will be installed in his system in a few days as dual boot. So now Intel 102 GGC buyers can go the linux way. Regards, Rony. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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Pitching Linux to corporates?
by Dinesh Joshi 16 Oct '06

16 Oct '06

Hi list, A recent experience has left me horrified. I was recently at an Airtel relationship center. Their PoS terminal for paying bills via cash/cheques was running windoze ( Some NT variant ). To my horror the system constantly kept on popping up a message - "You have been infected by ...blah blah blah....". This message was of some vague antivirus but not the well known McAffee or Norton. If their PoS running windoze can get infected with a virus then what about the data of countless customers inside that terminal? Afterall it is connected to the internet and anybody can easily hijack it! :O [rant] I am not an Airtel customer anymore but I really wish they continue using Windoze and go out of business soon... :/ May they crash and burn in hell until eternity! >:( [/rant] Ahem...shouldn't somebody bring this to the notice of the media? I mean I can imagine the amount of negative publicity it can bring to M$ ( and not to mention Airtel hahahahaa... ). Weren't their website so insecure that anybody could easily get the itemized bills of any arbitrary customer? So this got me thinking...with the recent "awareness" of better security in the digital domain shouldn't these corporates use Linux based solutions which are inherently more secure AND stable? What is stopping the adoption of Linux?? -- Dinesh A. Joshi

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[Article] Why argue about dynamic versus static languages when you can use both?
by Navneet Karnani 15 Oct '06

15 Oct '06

Something interesting for people to read. - Navneet

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Re: RMS' visit to NIT Hamirpur
by Debarshi 'Rishi' Ray 15 Oct '06

15 Oct '06

> Best of luck organising Thanks. :-) > and great job convincing your college > management to let him speak. Would have loved to visit Himachal this > time of the year, but have to hold the fort in Mumbai :-) Not much convincing was needed actually. If the Free Software Movement, and GNU Project does not convince them, then RMS' connections with MIT, Harvard, and USA surely do! :-D Cheers, Debarshi -- "India is not, as people keep calling it, an underdeveloped country, but rather a developed nation in an advanced state of decay." --Shashi Tharoor

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] [OT] Chipset and Original Motherboard
by Vihan Pandey 15 Oct '06

15 Oct '06

> > Except for Devdas who is not a follower of GNU, no other supporter of > > Erm, come again? I follow the GNU philosophy (important). I do not say > GNU/Linux (far less important). i agree with you there. It's more important that one believes in the GNU philosophy and is aware of the differences between GNU and Linux rather than waste time and bandwidth fighting. In retrospect i remember something that Mark Shuttleworth said during his last visit to India. ``People from two different groups may agree with each other on 99% of things, but will kill each other over the remaining 1%" :-) Regards, - vihan

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[OT] Chipset and Original Motherboard
by Roshan 15 Oct '06

15 Oct '06

I have been, in the past distinguishing Original and Chipset motherboard. The former is described as one with Chipsets (on the motherboard) manufactured by Intel themselves along with the board. So, if I say, Intel Original Motherboard, I mean the motherboard, along with the chipsets on it, are manufactured by Intel. The latter is described as one with Chipsets (on the motherboard) manufactured by Intel, but the motherboard manufactured by a third party such as HIS, VIA, Gigabyte, MSI etc. Am I correct? The cost of VIA, HIS, Gigabyte etc. is compartively less. I have understood them this way, as this is a colloquial followed by most vendors at Lamington Road :). Please correct me if I am using terms wrongly. To be slightly on topic, have Linux distro users on this list, used motherboads manufactured by HIS, VIA,etc. (Not many have replied to Mr. Rony's question of compatible motherboard) -- http://www.linuxreality.com (Podcasts also for LINUX USERS) __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] need a tally alternative on gnu/linux.
by Abhishek Daga 14 Oct '06

14 Oct '06

<<<<<<<<<< ----- Original Message ---- From: Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon(a)au-kbc.org> To: "GNU/Linux Users Group, Mumbai, India" <linuxers(a)mm.glug-bom.org> Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 7:53:52 AM Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] need a tally alternative on gnu/linux. all true - http://avsap.sourceforge.net <--- pretty old now, but in about 6-7 languages. frankly i got frustrated as a lot of people were very enthusiastic about helping/contributing until it actualy came to the point of doing work ... I have rewritten the underlying accounting engine, a demo of which can be seen at http://avsap.org.in (note, this demo is in plone, but no way is avsap ever going to be in plone) >>>>>>>>>>>> guilty as charged. Couldnt get it installed, so interest waned. But the requirement is still there.

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by Debarshi 'Rishi' Ray 14 Oct '06

14 Oct '06

>>> Hehehe. Thank you. Exactly what I needed to hear from an FSF >>> representative. Now would you be so kind as to make sure everyone >>> who tries to spread GNU philosophy is clear upon this point? >> What do you mean? I think you never needed to hear anything from any >> FSF representative. You need to tender an apology. Pray do not start >> throwing mud around, and then do a 'hehehe'. Get me one GNU hacker >> who said Linux is owned by GNU. > No. No apology in this case. I am not simply throwing mud. It is a fact. > Hence what I said above.. please make sure that all the GNU fans are > clear upon this matter. I was having this argument during RMS' recent > lecture. No apology. I apologise when I think I must. Look at the list > archives for proof of that. Can not do it. Internet connection is too slow at the moment. But I will take your word for it. > Btw. I never said GNU `hacker'. I said GNU `fans'. Define 'fan'. Do not start blaming GNU/FSF/RMS for what a GNU 'fan' says. Let the fans fan their opinions. FSF/GNU/RMS never claimed Linux was made by the GNU project although they do appreciate it being available today under a free software license, and not a proprietary one. How can the FSF make sure every one who talks about Software Freedom, Free Software, GNU is not arrogant, fanatical, etc.? Even Christ and The Prophet failed to ensure this. I think "it is best to be Christ or Buddha, than a Christian or a Buddhist". -- Microsoft does have a Y2K problem... it's called GNU/Linux!

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linux compatible motherboards.
by Debarshi 'Rishi' Ray 14 Oct '06

14 Oct '06

>> is easily fixed by going to the 'detect sound card' menu in GNOME >> and increasing the sound level using the slider there. Funnily the >> after exiting the utility, the slider goes back to where it was >> but the thing does not go mute. I suggest you try tinkering with >> any such utility if you have. > set the volumes and > alsactl store 1 > alsactl restore 1. put this in some startup script. Thanks, but it did not work out. I use system-config-soundcard to set the sound card volume levels to full. Then did: [rishi@Sunflower ~]$ sudo /sbin/alsactl store 1 [rishi@Sunflower ~]$ sudo /sbin/alsactl restore 1 On running system-config-soundcard the volumes are again at the mid-point of the bar. Is this a Fedora Core 5 bug? Anybody reported it already? Regards, Debarshi -- Microsoft does have a Y2K problem... it's called GNU/Linux!

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] How to do a minimal install?
by Arun Khan 14 Oct '06

14 Oct '06

----- Original Message ---- >From: Aniket Suryavasnshi <aniket.a.s(a)gmail.com> ... snip ... >tools of our choice separately and then compiled to form a complete OS. How >can it be done? Most distros have a minimum/base install options. You can also de-select the software packages you are not interested in - the installer will resolve dependencies on libraries and other packages. -- Arun Khan

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Re: RMS' visit to NIT Hamirpur
by Vihan Pandey 14 Oct '06

14 Oct '06

Hi Debarshi, <snip> > Dr. Richard Matthew Stallman (http://stallman.org/) will be giving a > public lecture in National Institute of Technology, Hamirpur, Himachal > Pradesh on the 25th of October, 2006. The proposed topic for the talk > is "Free Software, Free Society". This would take place immediately > after Dr. Stallman is done with his talk in the Air Jaldi Summit > (http://summit.airjaldi.com) in Dharamsala. > > There is no entry fee for attending the lecture. Everyone is invited. > Anybody willing or able to make the trip are encouraged to drop in. Best of luck organising, and great job convincing your college management to let him speak. Would have loved to visit Himachal this time of the year, but have to hold the fort in Mumbai :-) Great Job again ! Regards, - vihan

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10th Year of KDE
by Pradeepto Bhattacharya 14 Oct '06

14 Oct '06

Hi, Perhaps many of you know that today KDE celebrates 10 years of existence. It was today Matthias Ettrich announced [1] the starting of KDE project on Usenet. Some people in this list surely did read that one then and some later. From what I gather from talking to people, 10 years down the memory lane, some people thought it was the next cool thing and for the love of "hacking" joined the project. Some days later in October 1996, Matthias Kalle Dalheimer, started working on the first KDE class ever - KConfig ( that was the first KDE code as well ). Matthias Ettirch started working kwn at the same time. The first version of kdelibs ( kdelibs-0.0.1 ) was soon released. And guess what there was no svn, no cvs as well . Everything was tarred up and dropped in FTP server at the University of Tübingen. Humble beginnings. IIRC, Taj (Sirtaj Singh Kang) joined the project around those times as well. Today the KDE ( with 4 MLOC of code) and its libraries talk of a very rich well documented API and a great community. Many of its home grown technologies have been adapted by industry and there is co-operation happening as well in the same areas. Technologies like KIO,KHTML, KParts just make a developers job easy. And then there are loads of applications and upcoming new stuff like Phonon,Solid (with recent commits to the main trunk branch ) and other really cool stuff show a lot of promise. Have fun. Cheers! [1] http://www.kde.org/announcements/announcement.php Pradeepto -- The KDE Project : http://www.kde.org KDE India : http://www.kde.in Mailing List : http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-india

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] [OT] Chipset and Original Motherboard
by Vihan Pandey 14 Oct '06

14 Oct '06

Hi all, <snip> > >> It's more important that one believes in the GNU philosophy and is > >> aware of > >> the differences between GNU and Linux > > > > i'm missing something here, is there anything different between the GNU > > philosophy and linux philosophy? > > Yes, there _is_ a major difference between the two. Linux philosophy is > about using/writing/promoting ``Open Source'' owing to technical > benefits. The GNU philosophy is about using/writing/promoting ``Free > Software'' for ethical reasons. > Very true, but in my original mail the intention was NOT to start a ``Free Software v/s Open Source Flame war". For a simple reason, i think making one's position very clear on what one believes AND giving good reason to do so is the only real way to make a difference. i think there have been more than enough flame wars on this topic, and the result is still a stale mate, which itself tells that there is no point fighting about it. The community split into Free Software and Open Source, and they are still two separate entities. They do collaborate as the principals governing the software are the same. The difference is that there is an operational definition of the term ``Free Software" as charcterised by the 4 principal freedoms it offers. ``Open Source" does not have an operational definition, but a semantic implication that software source code must be open. That's my stated position. Regards, - vihan

1 0

Re: [ILUG-BOM] Re: need a tally alternative on gnu/linux.
by Abhishek Daga 14 Oct '06

14 Oct '06

>>>>>> Abhishek, may be we can have a small formal meeting with Kenneth if he is available. other interested people can also join in. the main point here is that once this problem of talli is solved, a huge community will embrace gnu/linux happyly. and bringing gnu/linux down to the common man is a major task still undone. regards. Krishnakant. <<<<<<<<< Not to belittle anyone's efforts, as KG has obviously done some splendid groundwork, but for it to be a box office success, there needs to be a dedicated team which will need to get paid. There can be guides, overseers, volunteers, helpers, but a dedicated team needs to be working on it full time and get paid at market rates. For this someone has to come up with a resource requirements list and then put it forward to the community who may choose to contribute towards it. Units can be A)Accountant B)Programmer C) infrastructure and with a set timeline, an opensource product can be achieved. Am sure there's a bunch of HNV individuals out there who wouldnt mind contributing big amounts provided they are shown a solid plan. Krishnakant has volunteered to be the pointman, which is great. Hope this time around, there can be a beta product by 2007 April and hopefully a full fledged app by 2008 april.

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Re: [OT] Chipset and Original Motherboard
by Vihan Pandey 14 Oct '06

14 Oct '06

Hi Kenneth, <snip> > > It's more important that one believes in the GNU philosophy and is > > aware of > > the differences between GNU and Linux > > i'm missing something here, is there anything different between the > GNU philosophy and linux philosophy? i was referring to the techinical difference between the GNU system and the Linux kernel. Regards, - vihan

1 0

Re: [ILUG-BOM] need a tally alternative on gnu/linux.
by Abhishek Daga 14 Oct '06

14 Oct '06

<----- Original Message ----> From: krishnakant Mane <researchbase(a)gmail.com> To: "GNU/Linux Users Group, Mumbai, India" <linuxers(a)mm.glug-bom.org> Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 12:09:25 AM Subject: [ILUG-BOM] need a tally alternative on gnu/linux. hello jtd, Abhishek, kenneth and other friends on the list. I could have specially sent this email off list to those whose names I mentioned at the top. but I want more people to read this email for spreading awareness because what I am going to ask is a new subject for me as well. I need an accounting software that falls under the FOSS model. it should compeet with Talli so that even common business men will use it. </end of original> With easy-to-use desktop guis available now in the form of ubuntu and probably some others, (more printer drivers, usb hot plugging, oo 2.0, gaim... and so on), the only thing preventing the 100s of thousands of non technical, small business users is an accounting package that will work on *nix and is of the same level of ease of installation and use and support as Tally. Pretty much all of them are using pirated windows and pirated office and pirated anti virus and downtime is very high due to malware, adware, viruses. But they have no choice because of lack of accounting applications. The day we can give them such an app with assured support, will be big enough to be declared a public holiday.

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] need a tally alternative on gnu/linux.
by Abhishek Daga 14 Oct '06

14 Oct '06

<<<<<<<< ----- Original Message ---- From: Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon(a)au-kbc.org> To: "GNU/Linux Users Group, Mumbai, India" <linuxers(a)mm.glug-bom.org> Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 9:36:22 AM Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] need a tally alternative on gnu/linux. ok - fair enough, question is: does the next avatar need to be gui or web? The underlying engine can support either or both. And incidently, the reason why progress is stalled is that i lack accounting domain knowledge to proceed - some one said, give me a lever and i will overturn the world. I say, give me an accountant and i will produce a kick-ass FA package. >>>>>>>>>>> The primary requirements are: a) Click Click type installation. If you know what i mean. b) Minimal use of the Mouse. ( I am using the new yahoo mail beta version with gallons of ajax. Ajax may hold the key) c) When printing reports etc, the formatting should be proper. Taking into account standard page sizes etc. Ofcourse, intuitiveness, easy upgrades, security, support are the other primary requirements. Gui interface is also OK, provided it will not have dependency issues with various *nix flavors. I tried using Kalculate, but it is locked down to its custom distro. at 12000 a pop for unlimited users, tally makes for a very compelling choice. (this does not include cost of windows XP/Server).

2 1

RMS' visit to NIT Hamirpur
by Debarshi 'Rishi' Ray 13 Oct '06

13 Oct '06

Dr. Richard Matthew Stallman (http://stallman.org/) will be giving a public lecture in National Institute of Technology, Hamirpur, Himachal Pradesh on the 25th of October, 2006. The proposed topic for the talk is "Free Software, Free Society". This would take place immediately after Dr. Stallman is done with his talk in the Air Jaldi Summit (http://summit.airjaldi.com) in Dharamsala. There is no entry fee for attending the lecture. Everyone is invited. Anybody willing or able to make the trip are encouraged to drop in. RSVP: debarshi.ray(a)gmail.com arjunbs(a)nitham.ac.in Cheers, Debarshi -- Microsoft does have a Y2K problem... it's called GNU/Linux!

1 0

Eudora mail client to be opensourced
by Harsh Busa 13 Oct '06

13 Oct '06

Eudora To Be Set Free The next version of Qualcomm's alternative e-mail client will be released as an open-source application built on the same code as Mozilla Thunderbird. http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/2006/10/eudora_goes_ope.html -- __________________________ http://www.ebackend.com/blog

1 0

Need help in configuring and building kernel 2.6.16.18
by The Xirtna 13 Oct '06

13 Oct '06

hi, I am reading the book Linux Device Drivers 3rd edition(alessandro rubini) ,in the second chapter about 'Building and Running Modules', the book says that : ------------------------- % make make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/linux-2.6.10' CC [M] /home/ldd3/src/misc-modules/hello.o Building modules, stage 2. MODPOST CC /home/ldd3/src/misc-modules/hello.mod.o LD [M] /home/ldd3/src/misc-modules/hello.ko make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/linux-2.6.10' % su root# insmod ./hello.ko Hello, world root# rmmod hello Goodbye cruel world root# Please note once again that , for the above sequence of commands to work,you must have a properly configured and built kernel tree in a place where the makefile is able to find it(/usr/src/linux-2.6.10 in the example shown). ---------------------------- what does it means to have a configured and built kernel? , does it mean that i need to compile the kernel? I have the source of kernel 2.6.16.18 in the /root directory, how do i configure and build it? Please help I am totally new to device drivers!

3 4

Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by Philip Tellis 13 Oct '06

13 Oct '06

http://lkml.org/lkml/2006/9/25/161 Interesting insights about licencing of the kernel.

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by പ്രവീണ്‍‌|Praveen 13 Oct '06

13 Oct '06

2006/10/10, Mrugesh Karnik <mrugeshkarnik(a)gmail.com>: > If you have such issues, don't let people use > the tools. But again, that goes against freedom, doesn't it? What I hate about you FSF people is that you try and steal credit. I don't agee. What FSF is asking is the credit it rightly deserves. You > just said the same thing again... Use GNU in the name? WHY? Make up a > name that highlights freedom, _very very clearly_. GNU represents users freedom. Oh and mind you, you say GNU/Linux not GNU & Linux. The only place where > I've seen that second term used is on those stickers: > > "GNU + Linux, the dynamic duo". > > I think that's fair. Clearly states that Linux is a separate project. > GNU/Linux does not do that. May be you misunderstood. GNU/Linux is clear. May be GNU+Linux is clearer. > But, why not work in favor of FSF's interest, if FSF's > > agenda is to protect your and my freedom. When we are requesting > > people to adopt GPLv3, it is not to snatch anything from from you, > > but to prevent it from getting snatched. > > Highlight "request". I agree with Linus. If the kernel developers think > that GPL 3 is no good for the kernel, so be it. Let it be under GPL 2. > Why create an issue? Highlight "request". GPL protect users Freedom. So when we have threats (like software patents, DRM ...) to users freedom we need to defend it. GPLv3 is trying to cover some of the shortcomings of GPL v2. It has be around for 15 years and a lot of things has changed and new threats have come. So we need to equip ourselves for new conditions. Cheers Praveen -- "Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn." -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr

2 1

challenge configuring pppoe, can some one help with following error messages?
by krishnakant Mane 13 Oct '06

13 Oct '06

hello all, I had previously posted this problem to ilug and got very good help from many. some one had asked me to post the log messages (I can't recall who it was, sorry ). so here is an abstract from my recent 3 days of usage. I have tried time and time again to connect over pppoe. my lan cards are eth 0 and eth1, but my internet cable is connected to eth1. here goes the log messages. Jan 1 14:59:29 csslab kernel: eth1: link up, 10Mbps, half-duplex, lpa 0x0000 Jan 1 14:59:29 csslab kernel: ip_tables: (C) 2000-2002 Netfilter core team Jan 1 14:59:29 csslab kernel: NET: Registered protocol family 10 Jan 1 14:59:29 csslab kernel: Disabled Privacy Extensions on device c039b000(lo) Jan 1 14:59:29 csslab kernel: IPv6 over IPv4 tunneling driver Jan 1 14:59:29 csslab pppd[7730]: pppd 2.4.3 started by root, uid 0 Jan 1 14:59:29 csslab pppd[7730]: Using interface ppp0 Jan 1 14:59:29 csslab pppd[7730]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/pts/1 Jan 1 14:59:30 csslab pppd[7730]: Warning - secret file /etc/ppp/pap-secrets has world and/or group access Jan 1 15:00:00 csslab pppd[7730]: LCP: timeout sending Config-Requests Jan 1 15:00:04 csslab pppd[7730]: Modem hangup Jan 1 15:00:04 csslab pppd[7730]: Using interface ppp0 Jan 1 15:00:04 csslab pppd[7730]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/pts/2 Jan 1 15:00:04 csslab pppd[7730]: Connection terminated. Jan 1 15:00:09 csslab pppd[7730]: Exit. as you might have noticed the connection times out. I don't know what is the actual problem. my eth 0 is used to connect another computer which is now shareing internet via windows. but that's not what I intend to do. never the less my eth 1 has internet cable connected and I had used ./go command to configure pppoe for the same lan card. I had configured it to come up on demand and had not specified the time for which the link should stay up. is that the problem? if that is the case, how do I answer the question asked by ./go command for "should the connection come up on demand?" or some thing similar? thanking all. Krishnakant.

6 17

browser incompatibility: MTNL Trust line
by Abhishek Daga 13 Oct '06

13 Oct '06

I had to look up the mtnl trustline site for getting digital signatures. http://www.mtnltrustline.com/keygencheck.htm It does not work with firefox. What a bummer. An email pop3 client is required for using these signatures. They have explcitly mentioned OE. Does anyone know if they work with thunderbird or evolution? thanks abhishek

2 1

Re: [ILUG-BOM] browser incompatibility: MTNL Trust line
by Amish Mehta 13 Oct '06

13 Oct '06

--- Abhishek Daga <abhishekdaga(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > I had to look up the mtnl trustline site for getting > digital signatures. > > http://www.mtnltrustline.com/keygencheck.htm > > It does not work with firefox. Not just mtnltrustline but MCA site does not work with firefox as well. So basically you need to: 1) Buy Windows XP 2) Use IE 6+ (with ActiveX enabled) > An email pop3 client is required for using these > signatures. They have explcitly mentioned OE. Does > anyone know if they work with thunderbird or > evolution? It works with Adobe reader v 7 on Linux though. And certificate is in standard format. So it should work with thunderbird. But wont be of much use as MTNL is NOT world recognised CA. MCA site is also insecure (uses http instead of https). Cookie is just simple JSESSIONID. Once your friendly neighbour sniffs it he gets access to your account. And guess what, this site is developed by TCS, leading software company of India. Totally not upto the mark or professional in my opinion. They have made it fully OS and browser dependent and unlikely that they would be interested in making it an independent one. Amish.

2 1

Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by Nagarjuna G. 12 Oct '06

12 Oct '06

2006/10/10, Abhishek Choudhary <choudhary(a)indicybers.net>: > Well why not "Linux/GNU" instead of "GNU/Linux"? Is it some age factor? :) > > All right, if you use Hurd then probably only GNU or Hurd/GNU! To be > clear, show me one machine that runs vanilla "GNU". Amusing right - you > might think I am a novice who does not know why one needs a kernel! If > _you_ do understand the need for a kernel then why emphasize that GNU is > an "Operating System" instead of claiming it to be what it actually is - a > wonderful "toolchain". > GNU is an operating system, and that is why the prooject talks of everything:kernel+userland+toolchain+desktop etc., GNU project is a comprehensive project. The kernel is still taking the first steps, falling now and then, the toddler way. This project did not start now, but in 1984. Why do you say it is JUST a tool chain, when you know that without it no free software can be made, maintained and distributed free. If you use 'JUST a x' to a dispensable thing, you may be right. Prove that it is dispensable. Kernel is indispensable, so we embrace all free kernels. > Well then GNU is indeed dependent on Linux, just as the latter is > dependent on it. Lets call a chair a chair and a table a table. that is why I called it symbiosis. we are not those who excluded it, the others did so. So tell them dependable core things cannot be excluded. > Then why does GPL tend to restrict it? Why are non-English versions of GPL > not officially available? (correct me if this is novice Q) Why does GPL > not address the issues regarding localisation? Why does GPL take away ones > rights to actually write prorietary code derived from it? Suicidal! Because, that kills freedom of others, and does not preserve the existing freedom. If we dont preserve existing GPL code, it does not stay, grow, multiply, and inherit. The restriction in GPL is intended to protect freedom from evaporating. Invention of copyleft is one of the greatest hacks of the last century, which made all this possible. Growth of freedom is possible only in a copyleft culture. In short, to protect the freedom. > (Forgive me if I > have touched on a painful nerve) There are numerous commercial software > vendors who use GNU software in their commercial stuff. For instance HP- > UX. All of us who have used it know the extent to which GNU is a part of > HP-UX. It suits HP's model. They are a hardware vendor, and make money > from hardware more than they do from software. However, think of a small > time developer. An individual who has his aspiations, dreams, wishes, and > a word in his heart which reads like "freedom". If he were to develop a > very niche piece of software, he would be forced to make public his source > code because he cannot use commercial tool-chain, and is therefore left > with GNU, which implies his code falls under the GPL license. Now whose > freedom are we talking about??? I am not clear. If he is the original author of the program, then he is free to decide. Please read http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html > Please! Lets talk freedom - freedom as in free, lest freedom becomes the > next f-word! Look at the 95% of our population to whom all of this > discussion just does not make any sense. No not because it is not > relevant, but because it is in English! That is why, let us work hard to localize all applications to Indian languages, then 65% people will have potential access. > it!!!!!! Still not. Come on get down to producing some real work now. > Probably instead of keying in useless comments and counter comments, > concentrate on keying in at least a few lines of code. You will certainly > be helping FSF a lot more that way. And indeed if you also do something > for the 95% (which many of you involved in Indic localisation are actually > doing), then trust me you will also have done a lot of good > towards "Freedom". You are right, that is why I contribute to Indic-computing, as well as to another GNU project (GNOWSYS). Other projects that I contribute to are gnowledge.org, gnoware.org, the Indic fonts (Gargi, Samyak) and supervising several others. There are others in this list too who are active contributors. True, working is more fun. Nagarjuna

3 2

Anybody has Freespire LIVE CD?
by Roshan 12 Oct '06

12 Oct '06

Hello list, Anyone who has tried Freespire LIVE CD, if available? Can someone burn a copy for me? -- http://360.yahoo.com/sriram4420 __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

1 0

[OT] A case of ransom.
by Rony 12 Oct '06

12 Oct '06

Hello All, I know a CA who uses a legal version of $ally 5.4. He cannot open data created by 7.2, so I asked him why does he not upgrade, since he is a legal user, upgrade must be free as in beer. He said that upgrade or new version costs the same. I feel, this is nothing but holding the customer to ransom as his clients' data made on 7.2 is as good as locked, till he buys the new version. While data created in 5.4 can be imported into 7.2, data created in 7.2 cannot be reverse ported on 5.4. What I want to know is that can 5.4 users legally force $ally to provide reverse portability into older versions as they are still legal? Regards, Rony. ___________________________________________________________ Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with Yahoo!. Enter now. http://www.yahoo.co.uk/blackberry

3 3

How to do a minimal install?
by Aniket Suryavasnshi 12 Oct '06

12 Oct '06

Hello everybody! /Call from a student/ I'm following this group since quite a long time, and I've got many new things to learn from it even without asking. Thanks for it guys. Now I have a quite simple question. I want to install a light version of Linux. I want to just write C programs in it and run them. It could do without the GUI. I've heard that Linux can be installed by getting the kernel, libraries and tools of our choice separately and then compiled to form a complete OS. How can it be done? -- With eggs so cheap these days, there's no point running behind chicks! ;)

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by Debarshi 'Rishi' Ray 12 Oct '06

12 Oct '06

>> This is just your assumption, who is asking any one to credit GNU for >> a non GNU project? The system is indeed GNU system with Linux as a >> kernel. When the kernel was completed, the only thing you need is to >> add is the GNU system to make it an OS. And the kernel was also >> completed using GNU tools. Under such a situation, why do you think >> we are asking for a thing that we didn't deserve? > Hehehe. Thank you. Exactly what I needed to hear from an FSF > representative. Now would you be so kind as to make sure everyone who > tries to spread GNU philosophy is clear upon this point? What do you mean? I think you never needed to hear anything from any FSF representative. You need to tender an apology. Pray do not start throwing mud around, and then do a 'hehehe'. Get me one GNU hacker who said Linux is owned by GNU. > I've had arguments with people about this, even during the RMS lecture. Pity, > for the lack of time on RMS' part meant that I couldn't bring up this > issue right there. Does not mean you level false charges and go 'hehehe'. > There goes Vihan's argument from the Andheri BoF. Granted that he did > not mean that GNU owned the kernel, but I suppose he has no right to > say this: > "But Linus himself uses GCC to build the kernel.." Eh? Why can not Vihan say so? Linus Torvalds said he could not have made Linux without GCC. He does say GCC is used to compile Linux. > Yes, well the point is, to a layman, who is completely new to this > world, the word GNU doesn't make any sense. Ok fine. So what makes sense? Linux? The X factor is it, eh? For all the reasoning, Linus Torvalds can be labelled as egoistic, if one went by the anti-FSF lobby. After all Linus named the kernel after himself, while Stallman never named GCC as 'Stallman Compiler Collection', Emacs as 'Stallman Editor', and the Free Software Movement as 'Stallman's Movement', and GNU as 'Stallman is Not Proprietary'. :-) But many GNU people do think Linux sounds cool, so why throw mud at GNU? Regards, Debarshi -- Microsoft does have a Y2K problem... it's called GNU/Linux!

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Re: Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by Vihan Pandey 12 Oct '06

12 Oct '06

> To be very precise, there isn't a Free alternative to gcc yet. If the > GNU folks will continue with the whole GNU/Linux thing, I might just > get bugged enough to write a BSD licensed compiler. Does that mean you would have absolutely no problem at all in exploitative corporates taking your hard work, (sometimes) turning it into crap and making a huge pile of cash on it ? Talking about freedom and practicing it is not just a momentary thing but has to be a continuous and perpetual struggle. If we leave the option for people to take what they want and commercialise it, they will never bother about freedom and the cause is diminished. If the restriction of keeping the released work also free is put, it makes them at least consult lawyers and think on ``Why did this person/group decide to do things this way ?" and that is the beginning of victory because you start to make people think about things they otherwise take for granted. That's the stuff revolutions are made of. Then of course we are in a philosophical quandary of ``restricting freedom to preserve freedom". My simple answer to that is, GPL has proved that it CAN work and IS working. But my whole point is that GNU/Linux is pretty much useless to me. > Regardless of how essential gcc is. If the GNU project gets credits, > everyone else deserves the same amount of time. Hmm... is it not so that in all GNU projects painstaiking efforts are made to credit every single person who contributed to any project. In fact in the GNU C manual itself they are about 20 odd pages in the pdf crediting every person individually with the work they did. This includes BSD guys who did the BSD ports. This happens irrespective of what the personal beliefs are(i don't recall seeing a tag near anyone's name stating with GNU or without GNU :-) ) Therefore when credit is given to a community, it is every single individual that has worked who is actually credited. Moreover, and correct me if i'm wrong, but GNU was the first movement to credit every person involved with a software project in a public manner. Dispensing with the GPL? Definitely. Dispensing with the GNU project? > Right now, other than the compiler, what else do you need to get a full > BSD userland? My thesis is that Linux != GNU/Linux and there are other > projects which deserve equal time in the OS name. If you truely feel that way and are passionate about freedom, you could start a movement to do the same telling people that ``Zero restriction freedom is true freedom" and you could also perhaps call it GING(GING Is Not GNU) if you are not fond of G's, but love B's you could call it BING(BING Is Not GNU) which actually sounds quite neat :-) Regards, - vihan

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Re: Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by Roshan 12 Oct '06

12 Oct '06

<removed all previous posts> Please do not take this post as sarcasm. It is a contemplation of the thread. <begin> Perhaps, we have exercised our ``freedom of speech'', to the best of our abilities. There have been only arguments and no consensus on why 'GNU/Linux' or 'Linux'. Let us give a new name based on Union in Set Theory in mathematics acceptable to both, GliNUx, *ONLY FOR THIS Mailing list* ;-) -- http://360.yahoo.com/sriram4420 __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by Vihan Pandey 12 Oct '06

12 Oct '06

> No. I use enough BSD licensed software to know how the BSD community > works. > Given the popularity of web services, DRM and closed hardware (how many > people > here use nvidia's drivers?), I don't really the GPLv2 as giving a > specific advantage to end users. The one way to get around the > requirements for distributing source is not to distribute it at all, but > only provide public APIs (or protocols) to allow access to your code. We NEED to distribute source, just giving away API's sets a bad precedence for the project. If its an issue of source distribution, have you looked at Affero GPL ? Please note that I have no issues with commercialising code. Nor does > the FSF. Both of us have issues with closing source for the second level > of users. The _sole_ reason I would be using the BSD license would be > to keep the GNU zealots away. That's not really the right way to go. You have every right to criticize anyone but releasing software under BSD style license(for freedom) just because you disagree with/dislike GNU and what it stands for set's a bad precedent. Moreover you can say what you want, but history is not going to change because of that. We owe FSF/GNU for starting this value system, lets not forget that. For whenever man forgets freedom or descends into callousness, the end result is a tyrannical society which in the end ends up destroying itself, only to go back to the value system. And should I not then give equal credit to every project which has > contributed to my Linux system? Does that justify calling it "Linux" alone ? If you are are truely advocating giving credit to everyone call it GNU/Linux/Apache/_all_other_stuff_you_may_be_using When your BSD style licensed copiler does get finished and you are NOT AT ALL using ANY GNU tools nor follow the GNU philosophy. Please call your system whatever you want. Untill then you cannot simply dismiss GNU. Saying GNU/Linux deprives the other communities of that credit. Does that justify calling it "Linux" alone ? If you are are truely advocating giving credit to everyone call it GNU/Linux/Apache/_all_other_stuff_you_may_be_using deja vu . . . Regards, - vihan

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by പ്രവീണ്‍‌|Praveen 12 Oct '06

12 Oct '06

2006/10/10, Mrugesh Karnik <mrugeshkarnik(a)gmail.com>: > > On Tuesday 10 October 2006 16:19, Nagarjuna G. wrote: > > > Tell me something. Some people who are 'fans' of GNU, go to such lengths > as to call all the software that's been licensed under the GPL, GNU > software. Now if I write some software and use GPL for it, I'd most > certainly not be willing to accredit it to GNU. Why should I? Like > Linux said, "Authors matter." By using the term GNU/Linux, it seems as > though Linux is just a part of the GNU project. It is not. Linux is not part of GNU project, that is why it is not GNU Linux (softwared from GNU project has names like that GNU Emacs, GNU grub, GNU compiler collection... ) GNU/Linux (pronounced GNU slash Linux) means GNU+Linux. Just because > someone uses your tools to build their own software does not mean that > you own that software. Linux developed a kernel and GNU project build tools around that is a wrong idea. If you had done some reasearch about the rigin you would have realised it. GNU project was started to build a complete Free Operating system and they started replacing parts of unix and they reached a point when they replaced most parts for a Unix like system except for the kernel. At that time Linux was not released and there were no kernels available as Free Software (the original BSD license was not Free Software) so they started building their own kernel replacement called Hurd. But when Linus Torva;ds released his kernel under GPL v2 it filled that gap and we didn't have to wait for Hurd to finish to have a complete Unix like system. So instead of adopting Linux as GNU's official kernel (since it tries to be upto Unix while hurd tries to improve upon Unix ideas) Linux was combined with the rest of the GNU system to make a comple Unix like Operating System and it is called GNU-slash-Linux clearly meaning GNU+Linux (as opposed to GNU Linux would mean GNU's version of Linux). GNU project gave creadit to linux as without it we would not have the complete system and it is an important contribution. Linus torvalds didn't write the system to have a complete Free Operating system, but it was started as a college project. The motivation is different that freedom. So when you remove GNU from picture the history is twisted. The reason why the Free Software movement was started not because programming was fun but because we respect users Freedom and there was no Free operating systems available, so we wrote one.

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[Commercial] Linux Device Driver 15 Oct, RTLinux 4 Nov
by hemendra jain 12 Oct '06

12 Oct '06

Hi All, We are going to commence our next batch as follows: Linux Device Driver: 15 Oct RTLinux : 4 Nov Rgds, Hemendra Jain (S N Embedded) 98205 65918

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by Debarshi 'Rishi' Ray 12 Oct '06

12 Oct '06

> If they want free as in beer - tell them its free as in beer > if they want cheap - tell them its cheap > <snip> > and, if they want freedom - give them that too. > So far, i have yet to meet anyone asking for freedom. Give me freedom. What is software freedom? Can you tell me more and more about software freedom? I do not want to know about cheap prices. Maybe you have now know one person who asked for freedom. Regards, Debarshi -- Microsoft does have a Y2K problem... it's called GNU/Linux!

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by Debarshi 'Rishi' Ray 12 Oct '06

12 Oct '06

> Linux said, "Authors matter." By using the term GNU/Linux, it seems as > though Linux is just a part of the GNU project. It is not. Just because > someone uses your tools to build their own software does not mean that > you own that software. If you have such issues, don't let people use > the tools. Please show me one GNU hacker who has said Linux belongs to GNU, or GNU owns Linux. If you can not, then tender an apology. > What I hate about you FSF people is that you try and steal credit. You > just said the same thing again... Use GNU in the name? WHY? Make up a > name that highlights freedom, _very very clearly_. What about this? "One CD-ROM vendor found that in their ``Linux distribution'', GNU software was the largest single contingent, around 28% of the total source code, and this included some of the essential major components without which there could be no system. Linux itself was about 3%. So if you were going to pick a name for the system based on who wrote the programs in the system, the most appropriate single choice would be ``GNU''." Read http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html for more. Does Apache and Mozilla come any way near to the contribution of the GNU Project towards Linux? Regards, Debarshi -- Microsoft does have a Y2K problem... it's called GNU/Linux!

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Linux home server
by Dinesh Joshi 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

Hi list :) As many of you may be aware, I run my own home server. It does everything from backing up, firewalling, filesharing (intranet), print support, ICS, web development ( PHP, MySQL, Apache etc... nothing major ) and the list goes on... The problem was and is that I am using antiquated hardware ( P1 and the likes ) and its giving me a hard time now. The hardware is about 10 years old and its time that it rests peacefully. So, now I want to replace it with a nice power efficient, low to about average processing power machine. The major constraints being that it should run cool and must be cost effective. I know that VIA processors are some of the best when it comes to power efficiency. They also make small boards ( ITX? ) which have smaller formfactor than the regular uATX boards. So can someone suggest me a config which will cost about Rs.5000 for CPU / Motherboard / RAM ( 256MB ) and may be a harddisk to go with it? I know its difficult but is anything possible which comes close to my requirements? Atleast point me in the right direction, I'll search out my goal ;) One last thing, it should be available in India, specifically on Lamington road :P TIA :) -- Dinesh A. Joshi

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Report of BoF on wiki
by Roshan 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

Hello All, I have posted a report on the BoF held on 5th October 2006, on the wiki. It is available on the following URL. http://db.glug-bom.org/wiki/index.php/Report051006 Mr. Rony and Mr. Krishnakant, please go through it and suggest if any changes have to be made. I had a great pleasure meeting Mr. Krishnakant again, and Mr. Rony for the first time. Birds of the same feather flock together! __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Vista's bad, GNU/Linux's good?
by Roshan 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

Hello all, http://linuxhelp.blogspot.com/2006/10/here-is-why-anti-piracy-technology.ht… After reading this article, one would probably, see the future desktops with a cool background, and Mozilla Firefox dominating the browsing etiquettes. Really? Yesterday's BoF had a converstation about this. When Mr. Krishnakant suggested that this (Vista's anti-piracy policy would be good for Linux distros) would happen, but wouldn't Crackers break those policies? (as also stated by Mr. Rony) __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

17 57

using already blocked device
by Harshal 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

hi, is there a way i can use a device blocked by one program, if required by another prog.? the situation is like this, i am running skype on linux and at the same time i want to play xmms for some songs, (i can do it in windows, skype and winamp together so i hear the person as well as some music in backgrond.) to my knowledge i dont think its possible in linux, but just wanting to wish the i am wrong ;-)

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Opterom mobo {ot]
by jtd 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

Any recomendations on opteron mobos and cpu -- Rgds JTD

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using USB to IDE converters with gnu/linux
by krishnakant Mane 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

hello, this might be slightly off topic I am marking the off topic part of this email with <ot> and ending with <noot> because the OT part will be most interesting to people like JTD in particular. <ot> I have a 40 g ide hard disk and I am aware that there are USB to IDE converters available. my idea was to convert this IDE hard disk to an external USB hard disk. how viable is this? I know that the power would be a problem, correct me if I am wrong jtd. but USB pen drives and external hard disks are all powered from the USB port itself. please suggest me if this is possible. <noot> now on to the gnu/linux specifrics. if my above idea is viable, will my hard disk be sda or hda? how will it be mounted? and if I want to load a complete operating system like debian, will it be possible? regards. Krishnakant.

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DSL on old computer configurations
by Roshan 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

A few days back, I gave DSL on a RW to my cousin. He has an old machine whose specs are: Intel Celeron Processor 466 MHz Creative 52X CD-ROM 128 MB RAM Micro ATX External Sound Card. I asked him to boot DSL and the computer was successfully able to boot DSL. However, his desktop was not enhanced with regular Icons, leaving him a bit clueless. I explained him how to start applications and minor details. However, when he mounted his drive, and started playing songs, a few minutes later, his computer started to restart on its own. Is even DSL too hungry on resources? or is it because of the old computer? (Its almost 7 years old). I have not been able to boot Knoppix on his computer. -- http://360.yahoo.com/sriram4420 __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: Linus on Linux and the GPLv3 (Mrugesh Karnik)
by Vihan Pandey 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

> From: Mrugesh Karnik <mrugeshkarnik(a)gmail.com> > To: "GNU/Linux Users Group, Mumbai, India" <linuxers(a)mm.glug-bom.org> > Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:45:43 +0530 > Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3 > On Tuesday 10 October 2006 21:02, Nagarjuna G. wrote: > > 2006/10/10, Mrugesh Karnik <mrugeshkarnik(a)gmail.com>: > > > On Tuesday 10 October 2006 16:19, Nagarjuna G. wrote: > > GNU doesn't own any software, GNU is software. GNU is not a person, > > not a company, so the ownership issue doesn't arise. > > There goes Vihan's argument from the Andheri BoF. Granted that he did > not mean that GNU owned the kernel, but I suppose he has no right to > say this: > > "But Linus himself uses GCC to build the kernel.." Mrugesh, the context was in terms of ``credit is given where credit is due and reciprocating". If you are quoting anyone, please mention the`complete' context in which the statement was made. Regards, - vihan

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Re: cdrecord 2.0
by Roshan 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

Dinesh Joshi Wrote: > You have a deathwish or what? lol :) hehe...no.. >Its easier to > migrate your system > to debian than to recompile the kernel. Seriously > speaking, its not > that tough to recompile it but it takes a lot of > time and effort. Its > just not worth it, atleast for end users. I have this thought in my mind to compile a kernel, because, one of my cousin brother suggested that I should surely try it out. He said, "it is great fun". But for sometime(or for a longtime), I won't be trying it out. (till I complete my PG) I would however, be migrating to Kubuntu, as soon as I purchase a new hdd. > But if > your requirements is > to run RH9 then there are some premade upgrades. You > can check them > out. But they are unoffical ones so you gotta be > careful. :) My system is older than one would think. One could also compare it as having Windows 98 on a Intel 915 / P4 3.06 Ghz with 512 MB of RAM ;)...(I donno, whether it works too..:-/)... I have been upgrading only Firefox on RH9. Rest, remain as they were from CD, as they serve my needs best. -- http://www.linuxreality.com (Podcasts also for LINUX USERS) __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Linux as a status symbol.
by Rony 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

Hello All, At the Five Gardens BoF, I had mentioned about companies using Linux as a status symbol, thus helping in the spread of Linux. Suppose every company that completely uses Linux announces in its ad "We are proud to announce that our organization is completely running on Linux" Then the ad says, "Why Linux" it goes on "Because linux has proved to be very secure and stable and is immune to ...blah blah" Another case. I don't know if there is anything like an IT insurance but if such a thing comes up, Linux enabled companies would have to pay lesser premium as their systems are anyway more secure. Those who use less secure ;) systems pay more premium as they carry a higher risk. If you can think of more such ideas please post them. This will bring about a positive effect on how Linux is viewed, like a high standard, difficult to achieve but something that carries a lot of weight and gains. Is there any independent IT or systems security certification that companies can adopt? If it doesn't exist, can some organizations in India start it? I am sure Linux will stand first in every security test. 'Other' insecure systems can be given the low grade. Regards, Rony. ___________________________________________________________ The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

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24 Online cyberoam client
by Sumit Punglia 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

Hi Finally successful to run net via linux thru RajASS Cablenet. After a lots of fight with linc.sourceforge which didn't worked for me. Finally the solution came to my mind. You have to run crclient by root. By the way any of you have tried setting up an home network. Which hub etc. to be used and how much does it cost ? How many extra problems arises with RajASS cablenet. --Pungi

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linux debate
by BombayNews 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

wonder why techies on this forum debating on taking linux to the people devote much time on the free/open source issue. Outside the rarefied world of coders working on linux this debate is completely meaningless. The wo/man on the street needs an OS that is stable, gets the work done without much ado and preferably free. Could linuxers focus on this? Getting such a hassle-free system on the desktops of people intending to migrate out of the Windows environment would be the clearest test for taking Linux to the masses. Shiv Kumar

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Re: cdrecord 2.0
by Roshan 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

Devdas Bhagat Wrote: > In kernels 2.4 and below, you need to turn on SCSI > emulation (ide-scsi). Ah! Now, I know, why I shouldn't be using Redhat Linux 9.0 or atleast learn to compile a new kernel. ;) > In 2.6, just pass cdrecord the ATA device. > > cdrecord dev=/dev/hdc foo.iso I'll see if I can try this over Kubuntu, when I install it after some weeks. (or FC5) Vihan Wrote: > Consequently cdrw tools became the norm for CD > writing. and they use cdrecord internally and emulate IDE-SCSI for ATAPI drives. (Correct me if I am wrong) Faraz Shahbazker Wrote: > On Debian Sarge this is documented in detail at: > /usr/share/doc/cdrecord/README.ATAPI.setup Hey, thanks for this. I don't know why, but I always forget that there is this directory where most of the packages, that I have installed, have its documentation. I have got a similar file (README.ATAPI), that has helped me understand more details. Thanks! (to all the three of you!) -- http://www.linuxreality.com (Podcasts also for LINUX USERS) __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by Abhishek Choudhary 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

Well why not "Linux/GNU" instead of "GNU/Linux"? Is it some age factor? :) All right, if you use Hurd then probably only GNU or Hurd/GNU! To be clear, show me one machine that runs vanilla "GNU". Amusing right - you might think I am a novice who does not know why one needs a kernel! If _you_ do understand the need for a kernel then why emphasize that GNU is an "Operating System" instead of claiming it to be what it actually is - a wonderful "toolchain". If it is the concept of userland / toolchain / original credit then let it be "Linux/GNU". The Linux kernel, and probably even the BSD kernels, have had a major role to play in making the "GNU" userland available to non- techie users - lets say non computer scientists. So ultimately what FSF is trying to emphasize is probably that even though your machines' resources are being handled by Linux or some other kernel, it is actually the GNU tool chain that the user is using right from the level of the shell (GNU bash). Well then GNU is indeed dependent on Linux, just as the latter is dependent on it. Lets call a chair a chair and a table a table. Now, if you are even slightly convinced read on, or else send in a deluge of bandwidth blocking replies which ultimately serve no purpose towards user empowerment, without reading any further. Lets get things clear and straight - I am one of the greatest fans of RMS. Being a compilers enthusiast myself RMS is like a God considering his contributions begining with Bison and the GPL philosophy. Yes the GPL philosophy and just the license. And that philosophy is "freedom". Then why does GPL tend to restrict it? Why are non-English versions of GPL not officially available? (correct me if this is novice Q) Why does GPL not address the issues regarding localisation? Why does GPL take away ones rights to actually write prorietary code derived from it? (Forgive me if I have touched on a painful nerve) There are numerous commercial software vendors who use GNU software in their commercial stuff. For instance HP- UX. All of us who have used it know the extent to which GNU is a part of HP-UX. It suits HP's model. They are a hardware vendor, and make money from hardware more than they do from software. However, think of a small time developer. An individual who has his aspiations, dreams, wishes, and a word in his heart which reads like "freedom". If he were to develop a very niche piece of software, he would be forced to make public his source code because he cannot use commercial tool-chain, and is therefore left with GNU, which implies his code falls under the GPL license. Now whose freedom are we talking about??? The big companies who will not waste any time in consuming his code into their commercial software. (Ah well - I have heard that "joke" about every software gets its economic worth! It happens in a developed nation but not where people cut short a day's meal to one, or maybe fast, to pay their computer institute fees.) Please! Lets talk freedom - freedom as in free, lest freedom becomes the next f-word! Look at the 95% of our population to whom all of this discussion just does not make any sense. No not because it is not relevant, but because it is in English! Just as a piece of _information_, the Indian copyright laws give the copyright to the translator if the original author did not publish the Indian language version of her work. The time probably is not far when this 95% super-majority will get tired of our useless musings and revolt, and convert the existing GNU source code to Indic programming languages, and yes get the copyright. Get it!!!!!! Still not. Come on get down to producing some real work now. Probably instead of keying in useless comments and counter comments, concentrate on keying in at least a few lines of code. You will certainly be helping FSF a lot more that way. And indeed if you also do something for the 95% (which many of you involved in Indic localisation are actually doing), then trust me you will also have done a lot of good towards "Freedom". Regards, Abhishek

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Re: Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by Vihan Pandey 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

> Mrugesh, when YOU create something YOU are the copyrite holder and that is > unquestionable. You will be credited no matter what. The question is if one > ``truly" believes in a community spirit you name it something consistent > with it. That's probably why GNU C is not called "the Stallman compiler" but > it could have if the person concerned put his ego before the > community(``unlike" some people). Moreover on top of that claiming that you > are a champion of digital rights is ludicrous. > > Stallman could have even trademarked Emacs, GNU C, GDB, > Bison(co-trademarking ?) with each news/magazine/web pages advertising "XYZ > is Trademark of Richard Stallman". > > What I hate about you FSF people is that you try and steal credit. You > > just said the same thing again... Use GNU in the name? WHY? Make up a > > name that highlights freedom, _very very clearly_. > > > Any suggestions? By the way in Revolution OS Linus himself said he wanted > to call it Freeix, but he ``wasn't that egoistic then". > > Oh and mind you, you say GNU/Linux not GNU & Linux. The only place where > > I've seen that second term used is on those stickers: > > "GNU + Linux, the dynamic duo". > > I think that's fair. Clearly states that Linux is a separate project. > > GNU/Linux does not do that. > > > By the way those stickers are courtesy FSF. Also, during Stallman's recent > talk there were a few badges given out to the lucky few who came in first > and grabbed them :-) with The GNU, Tux and Beastie on them crediting FSF, > Linux and FreeBSD. FSF has never for a second ``forgotten" Linux, RMS has > repeatedly stated in countless speeches that a kernel was the need of the > day and Linus fulfilled it at the right time. But how often is the reverse > done? > > Highlight "request". I agree with Linus. If the kernel developers think > > that GPL 3 is no good for the kernel, so be it. Let it be under GPL 2. > > Why create an issue? Highlight "request". > > > Do ALL the developers agree? If they do then as they are the copyrite > holders they have every right to put it ``all of it" under GPL v2. If there > are developers who think different and hold a copyrite on certain modules > they could just as well go in for GPL v3. > > Again, no intention of a flame war. But if you are going to use sentences > like ``hate about you FSF people" i doubt if i could just sit by. > > Regards, > > - vihan >

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Re: Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by Roshan 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

"Dinesh Shah" Wrote: > Hi Roshan, Hello :) > Ubuntu should be considered as a business in > "Investment Phase", where > business invests to create it's market share. I had > a long discussion > with Mark Shuttleworth on this when he was in India. But its webpages and the CD-covers state that Ubuntu will be always free of charge (no money, free). So did he mean, that the software is going to cost money once, it acquires a greater market share? > This is termed as "Donation Economy". However, I am > not in favour of > such an economy. Such a economy is not sustainable > over long period of > time. I too think how can it be sustainable. But, hasn't the FSF proved it to be? -- http://www.linuxreality.com (Podcasts also for LINUX USERS) __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by Roshan 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

Mrugesh Karnik Wrote: > What I hate about you FSF people is that you try and > steal credit. You > just said the same thing again... Use GNU in the > name? WHY? Make up a > name that highlights freedom, _very very clearly_. > Oh and mind you, you say GNU/Linux not GNU & Linux. > The only place where > I've seen that second term used is on those > stickers: > > "GNU + Linux, the dynamic duo". > > I think that's fair. Clearly states that Linux is a > separate project. > GNU/Linux does not do that. Warning: I am not doing *ga ga gee gee over*(spouting), in favour of either the GNU or FSF or Linus Torvalds. After reading documents at http://www.gnu.org, its understood, Mr. Richard Stallman acknowledges Linus's effort and therefore, the name GNU/Linux. The use of GNU/Linux implicitly indicates, GNU plus Linux or GNU+Linux. I somehow feel, it still indicates, Linux is a great project. It clearly distinguished the credit of Linus and also maintained the credibility of GNU itself. If Linus Torvalds deserves a better credit, name it Linux/GNU. Linus in his first email, had mentioned, that it is not going to be as big as the GNU (or as professional as it it). He believes, that the kernel code was meant to be distributed free of cost (and nothing related to freedom). The GNU team, was lucky enough to be successful in obtaining the Linux Kernel, and serving it as their core kernel for the entire GNU operating system. -- http://www.linuxreality.com (Podcasts also for LINUX USERS) __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by Roshan 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

Rony wrote: > In case of the former, one can charge any X amount > from the client for > making a customized package. > > But in the latter, suppose I make a CAD software > thats very good and > works just like the popular closed CAD software. I > post it on the net > under GPL and keep a price of some 100s of dollars. > Now some smart alec > who is out to ruin my business compiles my code and > even acknowledges my > good work and puts the package on the net for a free > download. He is > doing a perfectly legal thing as the GPL allows > this. So how do I run my > company when my work is available to others for free > as in beer. When we consider such a scenario, the ratio of developers / programmers and customers (or end users) would result to less than 1 (< 1). By this, I mean, there are far more end-users than developers and programmers. Again, if smart alec, put its on the internet, there would some investment, that would make him re-consider, putting it for free. Secondly, he would have to invest in advertising that he's put your software as free download. Considering the cost of $100, it would also indicate that you have some amount invested in good advertising and that your software is under GPL. Even then considering the worst case scenario, Vinayak Suggested: > 4) Dual licensing source code for commercial use (one of his points). I found the following page descirbing dual licensing http://www.oss-watch.ac.uk/resources/duallicence2.xml What Ubuntu does is, despite that it sends CD's for free (no cost) to anybody who demands its, provides supports for Ubuntu OS at desktop and server levels. But this in turn indicates, that much of the Free software over the internet are indeed, also, free as in bear, especially Linux distros. Where is the source of money for maintaining mirrors / servers for ISO's of these distros? __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Livecd distro or alternative required
by Krishna Dagli/Krushna Dagli 09 Oct '06

09 Oct '06

> > Hi > I am working from a hotel room and have good amount of spare time on > weekends. > Can anyone suggest a suitable linux live cd whereby i can work on linux > and > save documents on to my laptop and most important > learn programming. I am on a ibm t41 laptop. I have some books from where > I > can learn programming > > any other alternative similar to livecd also will be useful > > Ninad Use vmware or something so you will not have problem of something missing from the Live Cd and why not dual boot laptop? HTH -Krishna

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Is Open Source safer than Closed Source?
by Sujeet Bhatt 09 Oct '06

09 Oct '06

Business Week Online Insecurity in Open Source What open-source developers can learn about security and quality from—gasp—makers of proprietary software OCTOBER 6, 2006 Viewpoint By Ben Chelf Debates over what methods result in the best software often pit those who favor an open-source approach against proponents of proprietary, or closed-source, development. Conventional wisdom holds that open-source software should have fewer security flaws than proprietary software. With more eyes able to look at the underlying source code, bugs should be found and squashed much faster. But when software security and quality really matter—like crossing the Atlantic on a jet airliner—trust me, you want to fly proprietary. That conclusion is based on my company's involvement in testing of software security and quality. Working with the Homeland Security Dept. and Stanford University, my firm, Coverity, has closely analyzed 50 of the most popular open-source software projects, scanning more than 20 million lines of code daily. We publish those results here on the Web. BUG TO BUG COMPARISON. For the first time, we've compared those results with proprietary software from more than 100 different companies, including some of the best-known names in aerospace, financial services, software, and telecommunications—more than 60 million lines of code all together. In our research using automatic bug-hunting technology, no open-source project we analyzed had fewer software defects (per thousand lines of code) than the top-of-the-line closed-source application. That proprietary code, written for an aerospace company, is better than the best in open source—more than five times better, in fact. That company's software won't let you down when you're flying from New York to London. Of the more than 150 open-source and proprietary software applications that we have analyzed in this study, closed-source software code grabbed 11 of the top 15 spots for the highest quality and security. Full at: http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/oct2006/tc20061006_394140.ht…

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cdrecord 2.0
by Roshan 09 Oct '06

09 Oct '06

I don't know much about cdrecord, and its man pages specify only SCSI drives for writing to CD. Is it so, that cdrecord is one of the command line options only for *SCSI* optical drives? (CD Writers) I currently use K3b to write CD's, but wanted to try out cdrecord, and it seems as if there's no ATA support with it, is it? -- I am a novice, and still learing __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: cdrecord 2.0 (Roshan)
by Vihan Pandey 09 Oct '06

09 Oct '06

> > From: Roshan <d_rosh2001(a)yahoo.co.in> > To: Linux User group <linuxers(a)mm.glug-bom.org> > Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 14:29:39 +0100 (BST) > Subject: [ILUG-BOM] cdrecord 2.0 > I don't know much about cdrecord, and its man pages > specify only SCSI drives for writing to CD. > > Is it so, that cdrecord is one of the command line > options only for *SCSI* optical drives? (CD Writers) > > I currently use K3b to write CD's, but wanted to try > out cdrecord, and it seems as if there's no ATA > support with it, is it? pre kernel 2.6 CD writing ``requires" a SCSI device or SCSI emulation. This was mainly because ATAPI support was not present in the IDE driver. This has been corrected in kernel 2.6 onwards. You can very well use cdrecord, provided you have SCSI emulation enabled. Consequently cdrw tools became the norm for CD writing. Regards, - vihan

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[Commercial]Share Your Views With LFY
by Niraj Sahay 09 Oct '06

09 Oct '06

Hello All, Greetings from the LINUX For You magazine team! As you all know, we run a section called 'Opinions' in LFY where we pose a question to the community and industry and publish the top five responses (selected by our technical editors) in the magazine. Thanks to all those who responded to the last month's question. The best among the responses received have been published in the October 2006 issue of LFY. This month we have chosen the topic: "Intellectual Property Rights - boon or bane?" What's your take on this? Our eyes and ears are wide open and we are waiting to listen to your ideas. Please write to us at sujata.banerjee(a)efyindia.com with a CC to atul(a)efyindia.com, before 12th October 2006. The top five responses will be published in the November 2006 issue of LINUX for You. Look forward to your responses. Thanks, Sujata Banerjee, Editorial Coordinator, LFY Atul Goel, Asst. Associate Editor, LFY

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Re: Linux as a status symbol.
by Roshan 09 Oct '06

09 Oct '06

Rony Wrote: > Just curious to know, do the colleges use the WGA > programme and keep > their college pcs up to date with the latest > critical updates? My college has its server running Windows 2003 and all thick clients with Windows XP. Of them, some have Windows Update turned on, while some don't. In previous years, there have been viruses spreading all over the network. Now, things have changed a bit. We already have one AMC Engineer, but I think, we need one more. http://360.yahoo.com/sriram4420 __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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radio guided sign post forgotten!
by krishnakant Mane 09 Oct '06

09 Oct '06

hello all, seams the project for radio guided sign post is not on the minds of any of the members out here. what should be our next step. we had the meeting rather two meetings and the project seams to have stopped at that point. jtd, could you please email me off the list and provide your contact number. I had lost it some time back. anurag had given some nice ideas in the meeting at HBCSE and I think we can start with it for a simple system. anurag please comment on this. the bar code reading was also a good idea to do a prototype at a very cheep rage. Krishnakant.

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Re: Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by Roshan 08 Oct '06

08 Oct '06

Philip Tellis Wrote: > http://lkml.org/lkml/2006/9/25/161 > Interesting insights about licencing of the kernel. Seems as if the FSF gained a control over Linus and forced the name GNU/Linux. What RMS said in his public lecture was, that they had to build an operating system and they had started developing components for it. They were left alone without the kernel and luckily, they could find Linus, who was ready to give away the source code of the kernel he developed. Therefore, the GNU project was successful in completion of an Operating System with Linux as its kernel. I had always thought of any Linux distro, the entire operating system, as GNU/Linux and Linux as the kernel of this OS. GNU/Linux because, most of the the application programs that I used were "FREE" software. For newbies like me, the above mentioned link would resort to more discussions and arguments over an active mailing list like GLUG-BOM! __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: Report of BoF on wiki
by Roshan 08 Oct '06

08 Oct '06

Kenneth Gonsalves Wrote: > the andheri bof was great - Roshan, > please post the > minutes of that too. As requested, I have posted it on the wiki and is accessible at the following URL. (3rd October 2006) http://db.glug-bom.org/wiki/index.php/Report031006 If there are corrections, please notify me. Rony Wrote: >When was the Andheri BOF announced on this list? It wasn't announced. Why? I hope, the report answers this question. __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: Vista's bad, GNU/Linux's good?
by Roshan 08 Oct '06

08 Oct '06

Dinesh Joshi, is specifying GNU/Linux users to be a friend of Linux distros and _not_ an enemy of Microsoft Windows. Otoh, those who are bashing Windows, say that because, places where Windows should *not* have been the OS on computer, it still is. Both are correct in their own ways. For people who have been using computers and been in this field for serveral years (from 1992 onwards), would say primarily target Microsoft Windows because, that year saw the rise of Windows 3.1. and the success followed, though Microsoft had worse legal battles in its early years. RMS's essays in those days too had bits and pieces of Microsoft's software products, as evident on the GNU's website. However, the list members may use a more generic term "Non-free Software", but again, it wouldn't actually mean that all non-free software is really bad (SUN?) __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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