Linuxers September 2002

linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in

92 participants
165 discussions

Re:Interesting topic
by jtdsouza＠softhome.net 06 Sep '02

06 Sep '02

Quasi wrote >>At 02:52 morn 9/5/02 -0600, JTD wrote: >>the less informed said > as I was about the only one talking about X, and as I am one of the less > informed anyway, let me take this up... '-) No offence meant mate. (my apologies if it did offend) >1) X gui is bloated > More precisely, that X GUI suxx ;) - i.e. for the uninitiated, it is not > (very) sophisticated. U mean it's too sophisticated for the uninitiated. >For those who dont read complete threads, I read the complete thread ;-)). > Note I was talking about the GUI only. Not the underlying architecture. And further, > considering only the *GUI* aspect - that is precisely my gripe. > I have used X servers available from 96 onwards (svga, accelerated Mach64, XFree86), QNX, BeOS & M$ Windows > 3.11/95/98/98SE/NT/2000/XP. The fastest I have used was X+fvwm2 (used to > run on a 386 without a FPU and with only 8Mb of memory), and it was way, >*WAY* better than win 3.11/95. The flashiest/eyecandy were >X+gnome+enlightenment and XP. The smoothest/fast/crisp/stable I have used >is the win98 SE GUI. all themore reason for not cribbing. >3) users want something that works >Seems that the issues were mixed and arguments against linux were not in >context. >(it would have been better if you had quoted the contexts.) Heck quote all those mails... but read on >2)total number of non i386 processors sold is higher by several orders of >magnitude. > eh? if you are meaning Intel 80386 processors, you are probably right. yes that is exactly what i meant. > But if you meant processors of the x86 family, I must say you are >completely off the mark here. The *powerful & complex* machines you talk >about have pitiful tiny numbers compared to the cheap & generic x86 >processors. Also as of today, IMHO, if you consider pure computing power, >the best of the x86 family must be the most powerful. confusing ... comparing x86 to x86 > They run customised software which makes it possible for crap like > windows to exist in the first place. (Power, railways, mining, > communications, manufacturing, medical tecnology). >3) If u think that windows works ur idea of "works" needs corrective >education (a stint at gulag microsoft might be in order). If u are an >engineer please dont mention the two in the same breath. >Windows does work. If your idea of "works" is a huge complex system >running huge complex custom software, you should buy a PC, maybe. > Unix (traditional or Linux) has almost no competition in the *huge complex* > world. But isnt that completely besides the point? the systems are indeed hughe and complex but individual processors are far less complex than a i386 infact they are 8 and 16 bit devices. and most run tcp and x25 stacks for communication. The point being that other than a office desktop (where it is used because of accident rather than any great design) windows is good for nothing. >But the above completely misses out on something very basic "what is good >for u and ur business" U may be a business end user or a professional in >the computer industry, the basics are the same. > [this is getting off topic, nothing to do with X - but maybe "Interesting > topic" includes all :) ] No no it's abt making a living v/s you toiling to make billy babas living. > Consider this, (if you can) : My father (a real person) Would never doubt that ;-). > is an cartography expert. He used to makes maps by hand in his younger days. excuse my ignorance but are you refering to GIS systems (is cartography a subset or superset of GIS) > Today he makes them with the aid of a computer. They have spent ~7 lakhs on a software One of my aquantainces dowloaded an open source GIS system and is developing numerous customised applications for clients. his raw material costs 8 hrs download ( Rs.8 for cable internet) Sprints on linux R.H 7.2. > called MapInfo. Runs on windows {grin}. He has minimal computer > background. I had been trying to con him into installing GNU/Linux with > X. But he asked me : - > 1. Will my software run on Linux or is there a equivalent s/w on Linux? See what happens if u use windows > 2. Will my HPDeskjet blah blah printer run on Linux (print manager, et.al)? >3. Will I be able to use Linux with my current knowledge, as I have minimal >time? > 4. Will *I* be able to manage Linux as I am the most computer savvy person clip case of cart before the horse. > 5. We have about only 10 PC's, so we cannot afford an engeneer/sysadmin. Sys admin? what for. >6. When we have spent 7 lakhs on MapInfo we did not mind spending 5-10Kz on >Windowz. is that all. No mail server, no firewall, no word processing, no spread sheet? >-- and most importantly -- > 7. It works fine on windows, what advantage will I get on Linux ? Using windows is the bait. The trap lies ahead (but that is a much hacked story) > I think we were trying to discuss ways to promote Linux? Dispelling scepticism in potential software and technical personnel is what i thought. But then things got very interesting ;-). But promote where ? Most of the developer open community already uses Linux. Most of the snip > Most of the non-software-developer community wants (intelligent) black boxes which help > them be more efficient in what they do best. And if you[1] want GNU/Linux > there, then imposing ones' idea of cool isnt about "choice" - the touted > mantra. > [1] "you", because I have no such particularly burning desire. I love it > and I would not mind if it remained the exclusive domain of > geeks/nerds/developers/students/free-souls. The whispered truth of the > matter is that if *all* the users are your own community then where will > your chapati+bhaji come from? I am indeed making chappati + bhaji with beer thrown in from developing customised applications which are unthinkable in any context other than free software. >So IMHO stop thinking about windows. It is irrelevant in 99% of >microprocessors. > So IMHO, try to get out of the well. There are many wells all around. We > should keep our mind open enough to swim in any of them whenever we choose > & need. Closing an option or not seeing the enemy's sword is not very wise ... Yeah and swim in the oceans of the brave new GNU world. As for converting desktop pc it will happen on it's own with a little change in X some in Y and some more in Z. The only limitation of Linux is brand equity. The day somone decides to spend mega bucks on promoting linux the door would shut on widows. rgds jtdsouza(a)softhome.net

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Re: mp3blaster
by upendra gandhi 06 Sep '02

06 Sep '02

i am using tar file men does 7.2 RH is the min reqt upendra gandhi CIW ASSOCIATE (Server Admin.Internetworking Professional, Security Professional) http://home.graffiti.net/upengan78 upengan78(a)hotmail.com pengan78(a)linuxfreemail.com upengan78(a)epatra.com upengan78(a)graffiti.net upengan1978(a)netscape.net "THE LIVING GOD IS WITHIN YOU" Dearest 'swami vivekananda' --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] mp3blaster
by Amol Hatwar 06 Sep '02

06 Sep '02

On Fri, 06 Sep 2002 upendra gandhi wrote : >hi all >can anybody tell me if i want to use mp3blaster on RH >7.0 >which curses or ncurses i have to have coz at >./configure its asking for ncurses and i have ncurses >-5 and ncurses4- intalled >wht do i do?????????????? *snip* For doing that you need development packages installed. If you have compiled and installed the see to it if they are available in the include and library paths while compling mp3 blaster. Inclide thos paths in /etc/ld.so.conf (its a simple text file) and run ldconfig. This generally does the trick. A simpler way would be to use binary packages. Regards, Amol.

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Re: Re: [ILUG-BOM] Interesting topic
by Amol Hatwar 06 Sep '02

06 Sep '02

On Thu, 05 Sep 2002 Q u a s i wrote : >At 02:52 morn 9/5/02 -0600, JTD wrote: >>the less informed said > >as I was about the only one talking about X, and as I am one of >the less informed anyway, let me take this up... '-) > >>1) X gui is bloated > >More precisely, that X GUI suxx ;) - i.e. for the uninitiated, it >is not (very) sophisticated. For those who dont read complete >threads, Note I was talking about the GUI only. Not the >underlying architecture. And further, considering only the *GUI* >aspect - I have used X servers available from 96 onwards (svga, >accelerated Mach64, XFree86), QNX, BeOS & M$ Windows >3.11/95/98/98SE/NT/2000/XP. The fastest I have used was X+fvwm2 >(used to run on a 386 without a FPU and with only 8Mb of memory), >and it was way, *WAY* better than win 3.11/95. The >flashiest/eyecandy were X+gnome+enlightenment and XP. The >smoothest/fast/crisp/stable I have used is the win98 SE GUI. *snip* The moral of the story ... Different people have different choices. As Indians with limited resources, GNU and free (as in freedom, not give aways)is the way to go. Besides the point, one can't really take the digestive system out of an animal and say that it suffers from excess wind. X _is_ slow, running it standalone wasn't at all envisaged when X was developed. However if one wants a GUI on a standalone there's no choice, but to use it. People who use it on a N/W think otherwise. regards, Amol.

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inet problem
by Hiten Desai 06 Sep '02

06 Sep '02

Hi! I am having redhat 6.2 (2.2.19) I have network adapter of 1) intel epro100 2) intel pro 1000 I have to reload the inet service 3 to 4 times a day I have tried changing the lan card. I receive this error on console e1000: Receive Errors Reported by Hardware e1000: Receive Errors Reported by Hardware e1000: Receive Errors Reported by Hardware e1000: Receive Errors Reported by Hardware e1000: Receive Errors Reported by Hardware another constant error which I receive is kernel: cdrom: open failed. modprobe: Can't locate module net-pf-10 modprobe: Can't locate module net-pf-10 modprobe: Can't locate module net-pf-10 modprobe: Can't locate module net-pf-10 I have tried changing my lan card (from eepro100 to pro1000) Hiten. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com

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DeveloperIQ: GentooLinux 1.2, PhatLinux, compile your kernel...
by Frederick Noronha 06 Sep '02

06 Sep '02

----------------------------------------------------------------- DeveloperIQ "India's first complete software mag" Sept 2002 issue: ----------------------------------------------------------------- Highlights from the issue, compiled by FN: * Free as in freedom... focus on some alternate OSs - SpinOS (an OS that blurs the distinction between kernels and applications). - ReactOS: an Open Source effort to develop a quality operating system that is compatible with Windows NT applications and drivers. - BeOS: contains advantages from several OSs without ancient oddments of older versions. - Inferno: middleware, networking operating system, and a development environment for embedded systems. - Gentoo Linux 1.2: High-performance ports-based Linux metadistribution. Gentoo Linux has an advanced package management system called Portage. - Phat Linux 3.3: You can install Phat Linux on your computer without repartitioning your hard disk. - S.Ha.R.K: a dynamic configurable kernel architecture designed for supporting hard, soft and non real-time applications with interchangeable scheduling algorithms. * In the CD: - SpinOS - ReactOS - BeOS - Phat Linux 3.3 - Gentoo Linux 1.2 - Vita Nuova Inferno - netowrk operating system - SHaRK - XFree86 (freely redistributable, open-source implementation fo the XWindows Systems) * Post your problem: Questions on - How to figure out if your Ethernet card is recognised? (itconfig netstat) - How to access files on an MS-DOS partition or floppy - What does it mean if your meachine boots, says LI and then freezes? - What if you forget your Linux password? - How to install GNU software in Linux? - How to configure your network in Mandrake? - How to create a 'multiboot' LILO in Linux? * Compile your own Linux kernel. Continuing the journey with Philip de Groot. Concluding of a two-part series. * Look out for some database abstraction on PHP and learn about the Perl DBI (use Perl to access many different types of databases through a single API that works independently of the actual database being used). * Ad for Borland Delphi7 Studio. "Provides the migration path to .NET that developers have been waiting for. ... you're in control of a complete e-business development studio -- with the freedom to easily take your solutions cross-platform to Linux. Visit www.borland.com or email indiacustserv(a)borland.com mentioning Delphi7 in the subjectline. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Contact DeveloperIQ (www.developeriq.com). Price Rs 100 in India. Two CDs included. Bouquets and brickbats to ramdas(a)developeriq.com Send your letters in under 350 words, mention address/job designation ----------------------------------------------------------------- Frederick Noronha Freelance Journalist http://linuxinindia.pitas.com

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Opening up GNU/Linux in new areas ...
by Frederick Noronha 06 Sep '02

06 Sep '02

In the thick of the (delayed) monsoons means one has to put up with an additional round of computer-related woes. So, this evening, I found myself at ASIC in Panjim, trying to sort out a bad sectored-hard disk. One of the staff there raised the issue. "Why don't you teach us Linux?" he asked. Soon, two or three others were asking. In no time, they had put together a list of seven e-mail addresses, all of whom were hardware techies wanting to "learn Linux". Maybe the question was not put to the best person. (I'm no GNU/Linux guru.) But it set one thinking.... What can be done to promote GNU/Linux among new users? And also among Windows techies and hardware people, who could then spread it further? Two suggestions: * Tips on GNU/Linux targetted at newbies, to help them take up a kind of self-learning process... Such tips could be of the how-to-get-started type. * Holding a few demos of various installs. Andrew asked: "Please let us know when you'll will demo an install." He underlined the need for handholding for new users to get past the partitioning stage. Any volunteers to take these possibilities forward? Pls contact me off-list. Thanks, FN

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Query on Gphoto...
by Frederick Noronha 06 Sep '02

06 Sep '02

Any idea why my digital camera downloads superbly with Gphoto on Mandrake 8.0, but doesn't with Gphoto on RedHat 6.2? Tks, FN

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Intel pro1000
by Hiten Desai 06 Sep '02

06 Sep '02

I have installed Intel Pro 1000 (10/100/1000 Mbit) on Redhat 6.2 (2.2.19) but I am receiving this error on console e1000: Receive Errors Reported by Hardware e1000: Receive Errors Reported by Hardware e1000: Receive Errors Reported by Hardware e1000: Receive Errors Reported by Hardware e1000: Receive Errors Reported by Hardware __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com

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Interesting topic
by jtdsouza＠softhome.net 05 Sep '02

05 Sep '02

the less informed said 1) X gui is bloated 2) most of the world uses windoze 3) users want something that works 4) u cant make money on free software Seems that the issues were mixed and arguments against linux were not in context. 1) X was designed with networking in mind. It is ideal for a thin client environment and will outperform the windows gui (which in fact cannot operate as a thin client) by miles not to mention issues of maintainence and upgradation. 2) HE HE. total number of non i386 processors sold is higher by several orders of magnitude. They run customised software which makes it possible for crap like windows to exist in the first place. (Power, railways, mining, communications, manufacturing, medical tecnology). 3) If u think that windows works ur idea of "works" needs corrective education (a stint at gulag microsoft might be in order). If u are an engineer please dont mention the two in the same breath. 4) Refer 2. One single contract in one of the above fields will provide you enough work to last a life time. If u so much as mention windows in these circiles u would be thrown out pronto (presuming you managed to worm ur way in in the first place). But the above completely misses out on something very basic "what is good for u and ur business" U may be a business end user or a professional in the computer industry, the basics are the same. Lets talk only of a business providing software to another business. Basic principles are 1) reduce the cost of your input raw material (best if free) 2) deploy your manpower effeciently (debug your code instead of M$ code) 3) Focus 4) Reuse (possible in the above industries only if complete processor cross compatability exists) So what would you do fatten microsoft and waste time finding uncorrectable bugs or use GNU/Linux With the advent of the latest Open office suite, the last hurdle has vanished (a very small number of issues remain with some complex M$ documents). So IMHO stop thinking about windows. It is irrelevant in 99% of microprocessors. rgds jtdsouza(a)softhome.net

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Linuxers September 2002