Maybe FSF-India can learn from this. +1 for ilugd --> transparent, accountable, democratic without diluting any core ideas, dynamic==potential for evolution...
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Gora Mohanty gora@sarai.net Date: 2009/3/22 Subject: [ilugd] AGBM, and elections to ILUG-Delhi: Sun., March 3rd, 2pm, SIT-JNU To: ILUGD main list ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org
Hello everyone, We will be having an annual general body meeting (AGBM), and conducting elections to the governing board for ILUG- Delhi at 2pm, Sun., 26th April. Anyone needing a postal notification should send me a request to that effect, including your mailing address.
The meeting will be at the School of Information Technology, Jawaharlal Nehru University (SIT, JNU). For directions, see Area 5 on the map at http://www.jnu.ac.in/main.asp?sendval=JNUCampus Enter from the North Gate behind Munirka DDA flats, turn left at the T-point, and left again at the next T-point. The building on your right is the administration building which anyone should be able to direct you to. Turn in at the second right, and turn immediately left into the parking lot for the auditorium. The SIT is immediately behind the auditorium. Please feel free to call me at 9868527992 in case of any issues.
The annual elections will also be held at this meeting, with Jyoti Bhargava jyoti@jdesignlab.com, as the election officer. Please send mail to Jyoti if you are interested in contesting the elections. The available posts are: President: Treasurer: Vice President: General Secretary: Joint Secretary: Member (2 posts):
Regards, Gora
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Bloody well. You want democracy, I'll show you dynamic,transparent, evolutionary, accountable, unadulterated and in bundles.
http://www.daijiworld.com/images1/cash_072308-1.jpg
Elections and democracy is not a panacea its made out to be. Just to jog your memory, heres the story from last July.
http://scamsters.blogspot.com/2008/07/indian-parilament-trust-vote-cashgate....
If you want more examples of demoncracy, you'll find them easy enough. Just follow DD news.
- Harish Singh
Vikram Vincent wrote:
Maybe FSF-India can learn from this. +1 for ilugd --> transparent, accountable, democratic without diluting any core ideas, dynamic==potential for evolution...
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Gora Mohanty gora@sarai.net Date: 2009/3/22 Subject: [ilugd] AGBM, and elections to ILUG-Delhi: Sun., March 3rd, 2pm, SIT-JNU To: ILUGD main list ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org
Hello everyone, We will be having an annual general body meeting (AGBM), and conducting elections to the governing board for ILUG- Delhi at 2pm, Sun., 26th April. Anyone needing a postal notification should send me a request to that effect, including your mailing address.
The meeting will be at the School of Information Technology, Jawaharlal Nehru University (SIT, JNU). For directions, see Area 5 on the map at http://www.jnu.ac.in/main.asp?sendval=JNUCampus Enter from the North Gate behind Munirka DDA flats, turn left at the T-point, and left again at the next T-point. The building on your right is the administration building which anyone should be able to direct you to. Turn in at the second right, and turn immediately left into the parking lot for the auditorium. The SIT is immediately behind the auditorium. Please feel free to call me at 9868527992 in case of any issues.
The annual elections will also be held at this meeting, with Jyoti Bhargava jyoti@jdesignlab.com, as the election officer. Please send mail to Jyoti if you are interested in contesting the elections. The available posts are: President: Treasurer: Vice President: General Secretary: Joint Secretary: Member (2 posts):
Regards, Gora
ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/ _______________________________________________ FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
2009/3/24 Harish Singh kumar.harish.singh@googlemail.com: <snip>
"Bad people are elected because good people don't vote."
Free Software Movement and projects like Debian et.al are examples of democratic functioning. Maybe by using these FS related examples people may apply it to the non-software world too.
Uh. Where did you find that quote ? It sounds like you picked that one out of a hat. That quote is inaccurate on so many levels, I wouldn't know where to start.
FYI Debian is not an example of democracy by their own admission. Before you post something to a public forum you should check your notes.
If you want to see democracy and its ill effects on a project head on over to http://lwn.net/Articles/197383/ (
Re: Democracy: No silver bullet )
http://lwn.net/Articles/197380/ (
Managing Gentoo - a study in quotes ).
- Harish ************************************ Chance favors the prepared mind www.globalresearch.ca ************************************
Vikram Vincent wrote:
2009/3/24 Harish Singh kumar.harish.singh@googlemail.com:
<snip>
"Bad people are elected because good people don't vote."
Free Software Movement and projects like Debian et.al are examples of democratic functioning. Maybe by using these FS related examples people may apply it to the non-software world too.
2009/3/24 Harish Singh kumar.harish.singh@googlemail.com:
Uh. Where did you find that quote ? It sounds like you picked that one out
When people make rash comments without investigating the facts we can evaluate the person and their opinions better.
of a hat. That quote is inaccurate on so many levels, I wouldn't know where to start.
The original quote is here http://www.allgreatquotes.com/politician_quotes.shtml "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote. -- William E. Simon"
FYI Debian is not an example of democracy by their own admission. Before you post something to a public forum you should check your notes.
Do you follow the elections of the DPL? What about the intense discussions on matters of policy within Debian? I guess you are talking through your hat. Read http://www.debian.org/devel/constitution and follow the appropriate MLs.
If you want to see democracy and its ill effects on a project head on over to http://lwn.net/Articles/197383/ (
Re: Democracy: No silver bullet ) http://lwn.net/Articles/197380/ ( Managing Gentoo - a study in quotes ).
There is nothing there in those links that contradicts what opinion I have expressed. The developers are expressing their individual opinions on the issues mentioned. If you feel that FSF-I need not follow transparency, democracy, dynamism, accountability then you and whoever else are free to keep that opinion. I can tell you quite confidently that if FSF-I follows such a path then it will not be long before the only people left with FSF-I are its office bearers.
<off-topic> Currently, the majority of the votes cast across the country are by uneducated people. They vote for a particular party because they are given certain incentives. The people who claim to be educated ie., the urban and educated lot and others give a variety of reasons for not partaking in this important responsibility towards our country. And then they complain... So because you did not vote the corrupt come to power. Check out the Ads by Times on TV they really emphasise on the point. A popular band from Christ College 'Thermal and a Quarter' came out with a song called 'Shut up and Vote' Watch it on youtube.
http://www.mid-day.com/poll2009/2009/mar/180309-Jaago-Re-One-Billion-Vote-Ca...
And if you do not like any of the contestants then at least cancel your vote so that it is not misused. So shut up about the problems and vote. </off-topic>
Hello! You are not reading what is the official statement at debian.org . Essential it says "Even though Debian isn't really a democracy, we use a democratic process to elect our leaders and to approve general resolutions. These procedures are defined by the Debian Constitution http://www.debian.org/devel/constitution. "
When you say "There is nothing there in those links that contradicts what opinion I have expressed. The developers are expressing their individual opinions on the issues mentioned."
I'll take it your blind or delusional or both. For your benefit and reading, I'm copying what Daniel Ostrow has to say in his "Democracy: No Silver bullet".
<quote> In addition to the conclusion that too much freedom has entered the life-blood that drives Gentoo it is also often the case that from the stance of upper management there is not enough freedom given. Part of what paralyzes the Council and devrel and any other historical body that has tried to keep Gentoo healthy is that there is an understanding that they can only act as a whole...as individuals none of them have power as there is fear that a rogue person in a position to abuse their responsibility will do so. It is my contention that with a body of multiple individuals such as the Council that there would be the ability to recognize and mitigate the damage done by such a rogue. I'd posit that by voting someone onto the council you are saying that you trust them enough to carry this duty on their shoulders. The Council itself should not be just a technical body to validate the merits of GLERs and/or emerging projects, it (or some other yet to be established group) has to carry the solemn duty of carrying Gentoo into the future, nurturing it as only a parent could.
I'd also wager that allowing those who have been trusted to be in power to act a little on their own would provide the capability for that group to react more quickly, there wouldn't need to be emergency meetings, you wouldn't need to push off decisions for a full month and in general as there would be more activity there would also be more transparency as the actions of the group would be visible. -- Daniel Ostrow </quote>
<quote> At the top level, the council, in its present form does not manage Gentoo. It can't, it's pretty much dis-empowered as a management organisation due to the rules for its agenda setting. Further, don't see any any evidence of it setting targets and measuring progress or even getting progress reports. -- Roy Bamford http://lwn.net/Articles/197389/ </quote>
Not as you **think**, they are making comments about the ILL EFFECTS OF democracy on the project. There are multitude of others ( contributers and those who are aspiring to be council members ) voicing similar concerns on the same subject. I'll spell it out to you. Their opinions are **contrary** to your opinions of transparency and accountability etc.
You can post any number of examples, twist the words and make up your own conclusions, but reality is no one is fooled. There was a time in the past when everyone believed that having elected officials would magically solve all the problems. We now know that the system can be gamed for the benefit of those who have the moola and time. "Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. - Thomas Jefferson"
Bye now.Harish
p.s: When I see you are quoting William E. Simon I can only conclude you want to be in the company of Nixon and Halliburton, which he was a director of after his retirement from public office. You know Halliburton which is the epitome of freedom and transparency. "12 Feb 2009 *...* HOUSTON - KBR Inc. and its former parent, /Halliburton/ Co. , agreed to pay $579 million to resolve US criminal and regulatory charges that the engineering company paid bribes totaling more than $180 million to Nigerian officials to win more than $6 billion in contracts to build a liquefied natural gas project in that country.
Andrew Farley, KBR's general counsel, entered a guilty plea yesterday in federal court in Houston on behalf of the Houston-based company to conspiracy and to violating the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, and agreed to a $402 million fine.
Separately, the Securities and Exchange Commission said Halliburton and KBR would pay $177 million in forfeited profits to settle civil bribery allegations without admitting wrongdoing.
KBR also pledged at a federal court hearing to hire an independent monitor to review its internal controls and record keeping for three years " says it best.
Vikram Vincent wrote:
2009/3/24 Harish Singh kumar.harish.singh@googlemail.com:
Uh. Where did you find that quote ? It sounds like you picked that one out
When people make rash comments without investigating the facts we can evaluate the person and their opinions better.
of a hat. That quote is inaccurate on so many levels, I wouldn't know where to start.
The original quote is here http://www.allgreatquotes.com/politician_quotes.shtml "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote. -- William E. Simon"
FYI Debian is not an example of democracy by their own admission. Before you post something to a public forum you should check your notes.
Do you follow the elections of the DPL? What about the intense discussions on matters of policy within Debian? I guess you are talking through your hat. Read http://www.debian.org/devel/constitution and follow the appropriate MLs.
If you want to see democracy and its ill effects on a project head on over to http://lwn.net/Articles/197383/ (
Re: Democracy: No silver bullet ) http://lwn.net/Articles/197380/ ( Managing Gentoo - a study in quotes ).
There is nothing there in those links that contradicts what opinion I have expressed. The developers are expressing their individual opinions on the issues mentioned. If you feel that FSF-I need not follow transparency, democracy, dynamism, accountability then you and whoever else are free to keep that opinion. I can tell you quite confidently that if FSF-I follows such a path then it will not be long before the only people left with FSF-I are its office bearers.
<off-topic> Currently, the majority of the votes cast across the country are by uneducated people. They vote for a particular party because they are given certain incentives. The people who claim to be educated ie., the urban and educated lot and others give a variety of reasons for not partaking in this important responsibility towards our country. And then they complain... So because you did not vote the corrupt come to power. Check out the Ads by Times on TV they really emphasise on the point. A popular band from Christ College 'Thermal and a Quarter' came out with a song called 'Shut up and Vote' Watch it on youtube.
http://www.mid-day.com/poll2009/2009/mar/180309-Jaago-Re-One-Billion-Vote-Ca...
And if you do not like any of the contestants then at least cancel your vote so that it is not misused. So shut up about the problems and vote.
</off-topic>
2009/3/25 Harish Singh kumar.harish.singh@googlemail.com:
Hello! You are not reading what is the official statement at debian.org . Essential it says "Even though Debian isn't really a democracy, we use a democratic process to elect our leaders and to approve general resolutions. These procedures are defined by the Debian Constitution http://www.debian.org/devel/constitution. "
<snip>
The developers decided upon that process. That is democracy.
From your series of mails I understand that you are not for a
democratic process. Whether India is truely democratic is debatable but not for this list. But as long as the Preamble of Indian Constitution http://www.iloveindia.com/constitution-of-india/preamble.html says that we are a democratic republic we shall work to ensure that it remains as such.
-
Harish Singh -
Vikram Vincent