2008/6/2 Senthil Sundaram (sensunda) sensunda@cisco.com:
I think all in the list will agree with the event. But only thing is you need to trust & alert the list on planning future programmes organised in the name of FSUG-Bangalore
agreed . Does this mean we go ahead on the 8th. I am requesting a
meeting of interested volunteers of fsug on the 8th of Jun, Sunday 5.30 p.m . To see how we can take this forward as fsug.
Since we are already organising insitutions all over Karnataka I would like to propose that we either rename this group as Free Software Users Group, Karnataka or start a new group with a similar objective. For example, Mysore, Kolar, Mandya are outside Bangalore but we have initiated the process of the Free Software Movement.
Hi Vikram, Even better would be to call it FSF-Karnataka (karnataka.gnu.org.in)
If we have volunteers willing to take responsibility for different roles and have a web site ready, we can ask Arun to point karnataka.gnu.org.in to point to this site.
-- Anand Babu Periasamy GPG Key ID: 0x62E15A31 Blog [http://ab.freeshell.org] The GNU Operating System [http://www.gnu.org] Z RESEARCH Inc [http://www.zresearch.com]
Vikram Vincent wrote:
2008/6/2 Senthil Sundaram (sensunda) <sensunda@cisco.com mailto:sensunda@cisco.com>:
I think all in the list will agree with the event. But only thing is you need to trust & alert the list on planning future programmes organised in the name of FSUG-Bangalore >> agreed . Does this mean we go ahead on the 8th. I am requesting a meeting of interested volunteers of fsug on the 8th of Jun, Sunday 5.30 p.m . To see how we can take this forward as fsug.
Since we are already organising insitutions all over Karnataka I would like to propose that we either rename this group as Free Software Users Group, Karnataka or start a new group with a similar objective. For example, Mysore, Kolar, Mandya are outside Bangalore but we have initiated the process of the Free Software Movement. -- Vikram Vincent +919448810822 http://swatantra.org/
FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
Hi Anand,
2008/6/2 Anand Babu Periasamy ab@gnu.org.in:
Hi Vikram, Even better would be to call it FSF-Karnataka (karnataka.gnu.org.in)
If we have volunteers willing to take responsibility for different roles and have a web site ready, we can ask Arun to point karnataka.gnu.org.in to point to this site.
A potential FSF-Karnataka should not end up like FSF-TN or FSF-WB which
have become inactive due to various reasons. This has to be a very planned approach with dedicated volunteers and backing of at least one educational institution for various resources. If we can come to a consenses on the idea then we could discuss the implementation. A web page can only reflect the work of the volunteers :)
Please re-read the mail where I have clearly mentioned that now is not the time for an FSF-Karnataka.
2008/6/2 Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.com:
Hi Anand,
2008/6/2 Anand Babu Periasamy ab@gnu.org.in:
Hi Vikram, Even better would be to call it FSF-Karnataka (karnataka.gnu.org.in)
If we have volunteers willing to take responsibility for different roles and have a web site ready, we can ask Arun to point karnataka.gnu.org.in to point to this site.
A potential FSF-Karnataka should not end up like FSF-TN or FSF-WB which
have become inactive due to various reasons. This has to be a very planned approach with dedicated volunteers and backing of at least one educational institution for various resources. If we can come to a consenses on the idea then we could discuss the implementation. A web page can only reflect the work of the volunteers :)
2008/6/2 Anand Babu Periasamy ab@gnu.org.in:
Hi Vikram, Even better would be to call it FSF-Karnataka (karnataka.gnu.org.in)
Personally, I would like to give this a bit more time so that the ground work can first be put into place.
Understood. Let FSUG-Karnataka gain momentum. -- Anand Babu Periasamy GPG Key ID: 0x62E15A31 Blog [http://ab.freeshell.org] The GNU Operating System [http://www.gnu.org] Z RESEARCH Inc [http://www.zresearch.com]
Vikram Vincent wrote:
2008/6/2 Anand Babu Periasamy <ab@gnu.org.in mailto:ab@gnu.org.in>:
Hi Vikram, Even better would be to call it FSF-Karnataka (karnataka.gnu.org.in <http://karnataka.gnu.org.in>)
Personally, I would like to give this a bit more time so that the ground work can first be put into place. -- Vikram Vincent +919448810822 http://swatantra.org/
FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
2008/6/2 Anand Babu Periasamy ab@gnu.org.in:
Understood. Let FSUG-Karnataka gain momentum.
Since the proposal has been seconded can we please put this on the agenda. Thanks.
Anand Babu Periasamy wrote:
Hi Vikram, Even better would be to call it FSF-Karnataka (karnataka.gnu.org.in)
If we have volunteers willing to take responsibility for different roles and have a web site ready, we can ask Arun to point karnataka.gnu.org.in to point to this site.
I think users group is different from FSF Karnataka. And users groups need to be local. From our experience we know that any state user group in india didn't worked yet (ilug-goa and ilug-delhi are the the only exceptions)
Lets work on creating more localized user groups than making window platforms
FSUG-bangalore already have an identity. let us keep it. at the same time we can help the programmes all over kanataka a
And about FSF Karnataka , I am not much happy about the concept. The problem i am seeing with FSF AP and FSF Kerala are it is centered around some other institutional base. Here in bangalore we have a good community strength . but all of us are volunteering for the free software cause.
I like to hear from FSF India on this. ccing Dr.Nagarjuna too
Anivar
-- Anand Babu Periasamy GPG Key ID: 0x62E15A31 Blog [http://ab.freeshell.org] The GNU Operating System [http://www.gnu.org] Z RESEARCH Inc [http://www.zresearch.com]
Vikram Vincent wrote:
2008/6/2 Senthil Sundaram (sensunda) <sensunda@cisco.com mailto:sensunda@cisco.com>:
I think all in the list will agree with the event. But only thing is you need to trust & alert the list on planning future programmes organised in the name of FSUG-Bangalore >> agreed . Does this mean we go ahead on the 8th. I am requesting a meeting of interested volunteers of fsug on the 8th of Jun, Sunday 5.30 p.m . To see how we can take this forward as fsug.
Since we are already organising insitutions all over Karnataka I would like to propose that we either rename this group as Free Software Users Group, Karnataka or start a new group with a similar objective. For example, Mysore, Kolar, Mandya are outside Bangalore but we have initiated the process of the Free Software Movement. -- Vikram Vincent +919448810822 http://swatantra.org/
FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
2008/6/2 Anivar Aravind anivar.aravind@gmail.com:
I think users group is different from FSF Karnataka. And users groups need to be local. From our experience we know that any state user group in india didn't worked yet (ilug-goa and ilug-delhi are the the only exceptions)
Lets work on creating more localized user groups than making window platforms
FSUG-bangalore already have an identity. let us keep it. at the same time we can help the programmes all over kanataka a
User groups need to be local but we do need a coordination group for the whole of Karnataka. "FSUG, Karnataka" was just a name suggestion. Since the initial idea was to evolve FSUG, Bangalore into FSF-Kn I was only suggesting an intermediate step. Randomness is fine but not when it comes to the Movement.
And about FSF Karnataka , I am not much happy about the concept. The
And why should you feel so?
problem i am seeing with FSF AP and FSF Kerala are it is centered around some other institutional base. Here in bangalore we have a good community strength . but all of us are volunteering for the free software cause.
I think that the above mentioned groups are doing very good work in building the Free Software Movement in their respective states.
From http://www.fsf.org/appeal/2007/mako/ "*The FSF is the front-line
organization* in this fight and..." An FSF-Kn is an important necessity - the only question being when. The Movement cannot simply be anchored to individuals. You were in Kerala yesterday, today in Bangalore and tomorrow somewhere else. So on what basis is your argument?
Vikram Vincent wrote:
2008/6/2 Anivar Aravind <anivar.aravind@gmail.com mailto:anivar.aravind@gmail.com>:
I think users group is different from FSF Karnataka. And users groups need to be local. From our experience we know that any state user group in india didn't worked yet (ilug-goa and ilug-delhi are the the only exceptions) Lets work on creating more localized user groups than making window platforms FSUG-bangalore already have an identity. let us keep it. at the same time we can help the programmes all over kanataka a
User groups need to be local but we do need a coordination group for the whole of Karnataka. "FSUG, Karnataka" was just a name suggestion. Since the initial idea was to evolve FSUG, Bangalore into FSF-Kn I was only suggesting an intermediate step. Randomness is fine but not when it comes to the Movement.
we live in a age in which issues of concern will spread through groups to group. I know if BMS user group takes up some issue to act automatically all user groups in the country will act on it. (some visble examples are VTU Floss campaign, which spread the spirit all over the country, Save karnataka campaign initiated by sampada, was supported by most of us and FSF india also released a statement.- i remember you are against fsf india's support to sampada statement) . So There is no need to worry about addressing issues in whole karnataka i feel there is no need of a group with Authority of control and coordination. it is simply the over use of the ctrl key.
On a community way there is no need of a state level body/institution for movement coordination in a digital era . a visible exmaple is on functioning working group of FSF India
I will support FSF karnataka only after seeing FSF India as a strong organisation entity (now its activities are 2-3 peoples work) to vanguard users freedom. I believe the current need is strengthening FSF India's campaigns, and asking FSF India to take up issues from Karanataka than creating a Local FSF
Anivar
Anivar, Are you proposing that you will stay in Karnataka till "death do us apart" and coordinate the Free Software Movement? AFAIK even Praveen's stay in Bangalore is temporary.
2008/6/2 Anivar Aravind anivar.aravind@gmail.com:
we live in a age in which issues of concern will spread through groups to group. I know if BMS user group takes up some issue to act automatically all user groups in the country will act on it. (some visble examples are VTU Floss campaign, which spread the spirit all over the country, Save karnataka campaign initiated by sampada, was supported by
A simple assessment of the above says that they are only partial attempts and we have not been able to convert them to any long term gain such as policy change, etc.. as we are just applying the "randomness" approach.
most of us and FSF india also released a statement.- i remember you
are against fsf india's support to sampada statement) . So There is no need to worry about addressing issues in whole karnataka i feel there
What relationship does this have to do with the point I have proposed?
is no need of a group with Authority of control and coordination. it is simply the over use of the ctrl key.
If you have some fears then please explain yourself clearly else please stop trying to spread FUD.
On a community way there is no need of a state level body/institution
for movement coordination in a digital era . a visible exmaple is on functioning working group of FSF India
You are comparing the working of incomparable groups. Reason is mentioned below.
I will support FSF karnataka only after seeing FSF India as a strong organisation entity (now its activities are 2-3 peoples work) to vanguard users freedom. I believe the current need is strengthening FSF India's campaigns, and asking FSF India to take up issues from Karanataka than creating a Local FSF
Your support and opinion about a proposed FSF-Karnataka needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. You have completely skipped your accusations about FSF-{AP, Ker} and jumped to FSF-India without giving any concrete reasons. As we are witnessing, FSF-AP's activities are independent of FSF-India and that is appreciable. Just because somebody fails does not mean that all of us are useless.
OK FREEDOM FIGHTERS ----all are pumped up..
well let me tell my views on these
1) if we have to plan for the foundation and fsf-karnataka is the intention ( free software foundation - karnataka ) first thing is where will the contributors contribute the funds --- this is my my first worry -- i will contribute 1000 Rs for that as a fund the day it sarts -- but where is the website where i can donate online --- i cant take DD and do other things ( assume )
2)fsf-karnataka -- if the events happens independent of fsf-india then i feel we need to rethink on these
3) fsf-india itself has to become more stronger -- lets work towards that first
4) please stop commenting about some bodies presence in some part of the country or world and still being part of Free software moovement ----- i feel freedom fighter are freedom fighters whereve we go we have right to tell about free softwares and give freedom to the users of softwares
5 ) So good that we have a separate fsf ----- when it is a foundation then i thing there is need for lot of ground work to be done -- i feel another two more years are needed to make FSUG more in karnataka then we can form a fsf - karnataka
6) foundation means lot of contributions would pur in then who will manage all that and then there are many events have to be regualarly organized through out ---- so first lets make the community aware of the free softwares through out state and then we shall decide and do very organized way
So if we think practically and morally we need to become much more stronger and create more and more awareness then we can think of fsf-karnataka
if fsf karnatak is very much necessary then i can talk to some of the people who can even contribute offcie space and other things necessary -- i cant do that until and unless some concreate work is not shown
These are my views ----- so lets meet once ( FSUG -Bangalore or wherever you are ) and have more discussions
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.com wrote:
Anivar, Are you proposing that you will stay in Karnataka till "death do us apart" and coordinate the Free Software Movement? AFAIK even Praveen's stay in Bangalore is temporary.
2008/6/2 Anivar Aravind anivar.aravind@gmail.com:
we live in a age in which issues of concern will spread through groups to group. I know if BMS user group takes up some issue to act automatically all user groups in the country will act on it. (some visble examples are VTU Floss campaign, which spread the spirit all over the country, Save karnataka campaign initiated by sampada, was supported by
A simple assessment of the above says that they are only partial attempts and we have not been able to convert them to any long term gain such as policy change, etc.. as we are just applying the "randomness" approach.
most of us and FSF india also released a statement.- i remember you
are against fsf india's support to sampada statement) . So There is no need to worry about addressing issues in whole karnataka i feel there
What relationship does this have to do with the point I have proposed?
is no need of a group with Authority of control and coordination. it is simply the over use of the ctrl key.
If you have some fears then please explain yourself clearly else please stop trying to spread FUD.
On a community way there is no need of a state level body/institution
for movement coordination in a digital era . a visible exmaple is on functioning working group of FSF India
You are comparing the working of incomparable groups. Reason is mentioned below.
I will support FSF karnataka only after seeing FSF India as a strong organisation entity (now its activities are 2-3 peoples work) to vanguard users freedom. I believe the current need is strengthening FSF India's campaigns, and asking FSF India to take up issues from Karanataka than creating a Local FSF
Your support and opinion about a proposed FSF-Karnataka needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. You have completely skipped your accusations about FSF-{AP, Ker} and jumped to FSF-India without giving any concrete reasons. As we are witnessing, FSF-AP's activities are independent of FSF-India and that is appreciable. Just because somebody fails does not mean that all of us are useless.
-- Vikram Vincent +919448810822 http://swatantra.org/
FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
Hi Renuka,
2008/6/2 renuka prasad renukaprasadb@gmail.com:
OK FREEDOM FIGHTERS ----all are pumped up..
well let me tell my views on these
- if we have to plan for the f oundation and fsf-karnataka is the
intention ( free software foundation - karnataka ) first thing is where will the contributors contribute the funds --- this is my my first worry -- i will contribute 1000 Rs for that as a fund the day it sarts -- but where is the website where i can donate online --- i cant take DD and do other things ( assume )
Any proposed FSF-Kn will be a registered Not-for-profit organisation and accounting will take place accordingly. I'm sure that we can focus on that once the ground work is put in place.
2)fsf-karnataka -- if the events happens independent of fsf-india then i feel we need to rethink on these
When we say that activities indepedent of FSF-India we do not mean independent of principles or goals but rather activities taking local conditions and issues into consideration.
- fsf-india itself has to become more stronger -- lets work towards that
first
This is a simultaneous process rather than a linear one.
5 ) So good that we have a separate fsf ----- when it is a foundation then i thing there is need for lot of ground work to be done -- i feel another two more years are needed to make FSUG more in karnataka then we can form a fsf - karnataka
There are certain basic organisational requirements to be fulfilled first. For example, strong campus level self sustaining groups in at least a few institutions, a committed local team, an educational institution who will provide certain minimum resources and infrastructure, etc... I feel that we do not have to wait two years but the timeline will be decided by our activities. We hope that RVCE, BMSCE, St. Joseph's, Christ's and other communities will play a major role in this.
- foundation means lot of contributions would pur in then who will manage
all that and then there are many events have to be regualarly organized through out ---- so first lets make the community aware of the free softwares through out state and then we shall decide and do very organized way
So if we think practically and morally we need to become much more stronger and create more and more awareness then we can think of fsf-karnataka
if fsf karnatak is very much necessary then i can talk to some of the people who can even contribute offcie space and other things necessary -- i cant do that until and unless some concreate work is not shown
That will be cool.
These are my views ----- so lets meet once ( FSUG -Bangalore or wherever you are ) and have more discussions
Sure.
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@swatantra.org wrote:
Hi Renuka,
2008/6/2 renuka prasad renukaprasadb@gmail.com:
OK FREEDOM FIGHTERS ----all are pumped up..
well let me tell my views on these
- if we have to plan for the f oundation and fsf-karnataka is the
intention ( free software foundation - karnataka ) first thing is where will the contributors contribute the funds --- this is my my first worry -- i will contribute 1000 Rs for that as a fund the day it sarts -- but where is the website where i can donate online --- i cant take DD and do other things ( assume )
Any proposed FSF-Kn will be a registered Not-for-profit organisation and accounting will take place accordingly. I'm sure that we can focus on that once the ground work is put in place.
if the intention is a non profit one, accountablity -- well if the intention is contribution why dont we we contribute to fsf-india itself ... we get all benefit as we get for any donations in one way and also utilization of money ---- regarding all these -----do we really need a non profit organization ? i could not uderstand could you please tell more about your ideas and visions about this ...
2)fsf-karnataka -- if the events happens independent of fsf-india then i feel we need to rethink on these
When we say that activities indepedent of FSF-India we do not mean independent of principles or goals but rather activities taking local conditions and issues into consideration.
exactly true activities will happen keeping in mind about the local conditions and issues --- we are part of fsf india there should not be any thouht independent of fsf india --- i think there are more experienced and knowledgeable people in fsf india who can take up this issue and see how they can help us in understanding these things --atleast for me , as i am not as knowledgeable than those who are for sure i know reading these mails... it is always better to go in line with fsf india -- i feel whether parallel or simultaneous activities all have the same intentions --- i am only afraid that if we go on like this fsf-karnataka , then fsf-bangalore , then fsf-rvce , then fsf-bms then fsf-st josephs etc etc ---where will this list end up -- this is the only concern i had --- so i need to understand more abt fsf-karnataka need till few more years... since my and few of my friends are part of some non profit organization i felt like telling these things ---
- fsf-india itself has to become more stronger -- lets work towards that
first
This is a simultaneous process rather than a linear one.
5 ) So good that we have a separate fsf ----- when it is a foundation then i thing there is need for lot of ground work to be done -- i feel another two more years are needed to make FSUG more in karnataka then we can form a fsf - karnataka
There are certain basic organisational requirements to be fulfilled first. For example, strong campus level self sustaining groups in at least a few institutions, a committed local team, an educational institution who will provide certain minimum resources and infrastructure, etc... I feel that we do not have to wait two years but the timeline will be decided by our activities. We hope that RVCE, BMSCE, St. Joseph's, Christ's and other communities will play a major role in this.
vikram let me share some of my experience about college level or institution level self sustaining groups --- i will take example of my own college --- we recently conducted a workshop about authoring scientific and technical documents using LaTeX which was done by Dr C.S. Yogananda and his team SJCE mysore --- see it was a need that makes people get used to the softwares or whatever for the sake of need .... well our trust sponsored for this 2 day workshop which costed 26000 Rs inclusing all material .. here what i want to tell is neither principal nor college management knew abt free softwares but now good news is that 60 of the faculties know abt free softwares
y i am telling this is one of the speaker was Prof Anand Murthy , HOD of Mechanical department of SJCE , Mysore is one of the package managers of Zenwalk --- in his college he has seen that his department labs are completely on GNU /Linux --- so the free software movement is not mainly from the institution it the freedom fighters who will take decision about this --- today i am in RVCE any time i will leave that college Then? in MYsore SJCE college all question papers are maintained using ODF standards --- so i think they are doing better than any other institutions ( to my knowledge -- correct if it is wrong ) infact they have implemented a quiz tool where it is required to evaluate 16000 papers every semester thrice using latex ---
So whether institutions give resource or not it the each individual freedom fighter who will make the change
THis also reminds a school teacher in kanakapura who sets question papers of all languages using LaTeX and spreading it to other schools -----
I think we need to work more in creating awareness about using free softwares at school , college , institution , university levels solving the need of the teachers , student , and management , etc etc finally community .......
There are many people who are working a lot and contributing a lot --- so we need to take every one into confidence so this is not the right time to rush up -- lets keep on creating awareness time will only tell us what to do ----
- foundation means lot of contributions would pur in then who will manage
all that and then there are many events have to be regualarly organized through out ---- so first lets make the community aware of the free softwares through out state and then we shall decide and do very organized way
So if we think practically and morally we need to become much more stronger and create more and more awareness then we can think of fsf-karnataka
if fsf karnatak is very much necessary then i can talk to some of the people who can even contribute offcie space and other things necessary -- i cant do that until and unless some concreate work is not shown
That will be cool.
Ya many more cool thing will happen -- let us have some patience --- ofcourse every one have the freedom to chooose
These are my views ----- so lets meet once ( FSUG -Bangalore or wherever you are ) and have more discussions
Sure.
i think it is the right time for all of us to meet once .......
-- Vikram Vincent +919448810822 http://swatantra.org/
FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
Hi, The basic idea I was proposing was a coordination mechanism among the different Free software groups in the State of Karnataka. Please note that I was not proposing an FSF-Kn as we have not yet built the required organisational base. Taking membership of FSF-India is good. But if we have to have any activity then the activity will be local, right? A question that can be posed is why do we need an FSF-{India, Latin America, Europe} when there is already an FSF? FSF-India can only give guidance. We at the grassroot level will have to execute it and build the Movement. That cannot be done by FSF-India. FSF-{AP,Ker, TN, WB} are not independent of FSF-India just as Karnataka, AP, Kerala, WB, TN etc.. are not independent of India. Similar concept.
Vikram Vincent
On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 9:08 AM, Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@swatantra.org wrote:
Hi, The basic idea I was proposing was a coordination mechanism among the different Free software groups in the State of Karnataka.
Vikram it is a great idea that we need to have coordination mechanism -- already i spoke to the people in mysore, just to inform you they are planning to have have a group and also going throught out the colleges in mysore and create awareness camps --- lets c what will they come up with ...
THen there is a small user group from SIT , tumkur who arein touch with some of th students of our college lets see what will they also come up , and i spoek to dayanad sagar college student who are a bit active and not come in forefront.. then msrit is also quite active --- problem is see the student communities will be more active upto their placement activities start soo of the placement they will be a bit lost ----
SO let us discuss the strategies about how to make the student or faculties or management communites aware of free softwares then automatically when their need s are addressed with a more efficient and effective way obviously our success is seen ....
Please note that I was not proposing an FSF-Kn as we have not yet built the
required organisational base. Taking membership of FSF-India is good. But if we have to have any activity then the activity will be local, right?
vikram i think you must be aware that fsf-india is doing a lot regarding the sponsoring several events --- please correct if i am wrong any one that fsf India has sponsored in a very large extent for the recent freemap India where bangalore , mumbai, hyderabad, westbengal , delhi cities were mapped and those maps are freely available now. ( I THINK IT IS IN TERMS OF LAKHS WHERE FSF-INDIA RAISED FUNDS FOR THE FREEMAP INDIA WORKSHOP TOOK THIS YEAR)
BUT as you pointed rightly that some things have to happen locally -- ofcourse true, what i feel about all htese is we freedom fighters have to be catalysts -- CATALYST means catalyst itself --. Also what you are telling is also very much practical that FSF-india might not be able to sponsor for each and every event --
A question that can be posed is why do we need an FSF-{India, Latin America, Europe} when there is already an FSF?
you are right -- that is what i also pointed that there was a time where there was a need for fsf-india -- i hope u understood .
FSF-India can only give guidance.
i dont know how for this is correct.. it is hard to say this on fsf -- so many are part of fsf i dont think they are just guiding us ....
We at the grassroot level will have to execute it and build the Movement. That cannot be done by FSF-India.
Atleast i came to know about free software is beacuse of fsf only . see many are apporaching for fsf for several things to make it happen like to fight for the policy changes and other things --- i feel FSF - India has done a lot and doing many things
FSF-{AP,Ker, TN, WB} are not independent of FSF-India just as Karnataka, AP,
Kerala, WB, TN etc.. are not independent of India. Similar concept.
i dont know whether FSF of the states you mentioned are independent and i cant even think about being independent -- by chance if any one things like that also -- i have no opinions or comments on those --
I came to know about free softwares may be since from one year but even though i was using free softwares since 5 to 6 years i was not aware of the free software philosophy -- but since one year one of the free software freedom fighter has helped me to realize the imprtance of freedom ---- It is the freedom for the software users that has impressed me much and since then i felt that that there is a need to build a strong scociety which believes in this free software philosphy ---
I feel we need to become CATALYST and create more such and help others to get freedom ---
Vikram Vincent
FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
Vikram Vincent wrote:
Anivar, Are you proposing that you will stay in Karnataka till "death do us apart" and coordinate the Free Software Movement? AFAIK even Praveen's stay in Bangalore is temporary.
If you are interested in personal FUD I am not interested in it. I am not considering myself in any position to *coordinate Free Software Movement* . Please dont put allegations like this. This is my last mail on this thread
2008/6/2 Anivar Aravind <anivar.aravind@gmail.com mailto:anivar.aravind@gmail.com>:
we live in a age in which issues of concern will spread through groups to group. I know if BMS user group takes up some issue to act automatically all user groups in the country will act on it. (some visble examples are VTU Floss campaign, which spread the spirit all over the country, Save karnataka campaign initiated by sampada, was supported by
A simple assessment of the above says that they are only partial attempts and we have not been able to convert them to any long term gain such as policy change, etc.. as we are just applying the "randomness" approach.
Thats why I pointed about the need of strengthening FSF India. This discussion itself shows immaturity of the movement here
is no need of a group with Authority of control and coordination. it is simply the over use of the ctrl key.
If you have some fears then please explain yourself clearly else please stop trying to spread FUD.
Clearly shows the immaturity of your response . At first you need to know the meaning of FUD.
I will support FSF karnataka only after seeing FSF India as a strong organisation entity (now its activities are 2-3 peoples work) to vanguard users freedom. I believe the current need is strengthening FSF India's campaigns, and asking FSF India to take up issues from Karanataka than creating a Local FSF
Your support and opinion about a proposed FSF-Karnataka needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. You have completely skipped your accusations about FSF-{AP, Ker} and jumped to FSF-India without giving any concrete reasons.
Accusations? I pointed about the problems of Institution driven movement instead of keeping a healthier link between community and foundation. They will work off course in some level as we seen on kerala and AP. But it is not a role model. In kerala free software community & movement crossed this problem existed before.
In bangalore we have a good community. we need to strengthen it. also we can work as much as possible for spreading free software in the state. You may remember about the campaign to promote free software in karanataka started almost before one year. http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Campaign_to_promote_free_software_in_Karnataka What prevents us from revamping it
As we are witnessing, FSF-AP's activities are independent of FSF-India and that is appreciable. Just because somebody fails does not mean that all of us are useless.
I appreciate your spirit. But it does not prevent me from mentioning my opinion in this list. I never said anything against FSF-AP or FSF India in my mail. I was pointing the immediate need of strengthening FSF India than putting energy for a local FSF
And As I pointed on the first message on this thread i would like to see it coming from FSF India. After all these mails I feel Free Software movement in bangalore is not mature enough to run a Local Free Software Foundation
Anivar
2008/6/2 Anivar Aravind anivar.aravind@gmail.com:
A simple assessment of the above says that they are only partial attempts and we have not been able to convert them to any long term gain such as policy change, etc.. as we are just applying the "randomness" approach.
Thats why I pointed about the need of strengthening FSF India. This discussion itself shows immaturity of the movement here
No one disagreed about strengthening FSF-India. However, there is nothing wrong with simultaneously working towards a coordination forum at the State level. AGAIN, now is not the time for an FSF-Karnataka
I will support FSF karnataka only after seeing FSF India as a strong organisation entity (now its activities are 2-3 peoples work) to vanguard users freedom. I believe the current need is strengthening
FSF
India's campaigns, and asking FSF India to take up issues from Karanataka than creating a Local FSF
Your support and opinion about a proposed FSF-Karnataka needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. You have completely skipped your accusations about FSF-{AP, Ker} and jumped to FSF-India without giving any concrete reasons.
Accusations? I pointed about the problems of Institution driven movement instead of keeping a healthier link between community and foundation. They will work off course in some level as we seen on kerala and AP. But it is not a role model. In kerala free software community & movement crossed this problem existed before.
What Institution driven movement? Are you referring to FSF? Any problems in implementation can always be rectified. Your argument still does not hold water.
well let me tell my views on these
1) if we have to plan for the foundation and fsf-karnataka is the intention ( free software foundation - karnataka ) first thing is where will the contributors contribute the funds --- this is my my first worry -- i will contribute 1000 Rs for that as a fund the day it sarts -- but where is the website where i can donate online --- i cant take DD and do other things ( assume )
2)fsf-karnataka -- if the events happens independent of fsf-india then i feel we need to rethink on these
3) fsf-india itself has to become more stronger -- lets work towards that first
4) please stop commenting about some bodies presence in some part of the country or world and still being part of Free software moovement ----- i feel freedom fighter are freedom fighters whereve we go we have right to tell about free softwares and give freedom to the users of softwares
5 ) So good that we have a separate fsf ----- when it is a foundation then i thing there is need for lot of ground work to be done -- i feel another two more years are needed to make FSUG more in karnataka then we can form a fsf - karnataka
6) foundation means lot of contributions would pur in then who will manage all that and then there are many events have to be regualarly organized through out ---- so first lets make the community aware of the free softwares through out state and then we shall decide and do very organized way
So if we think practically and morally we need to become much more stronger and create more and more awareness then we can think of fsf-karnataka
if fsf karnatak is very much necessary then i can talk to some of the people who can even contribute offcie space and other things necessary -- i cant do that until and unless some concreate work is not shown
These are my views ----- so lets meet once ( FSUG -Bangalore or wherever you are ) and have more discussions
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.com wrote:
2008/6/2 Anivar Aravind anivar.aravind@gmail.com:
A simple assessment of the above says that they are only partial attempts and we have not been able to convert them to any long term gain such as policy change, etc.. as we are just applying the "randomness" approach.
Thats why I pointed about the need of strengthening FSF India. This discussion itself shows immaturity of the movement here
No one disagreed about strengthening FSF-India. However, there is nothing wrong with simultaneously working towards a coordination forum at the State level. AGAIN, now is not the time for an FSF-Karnataka
I will support FSF karnataka only after seeing FSF India as a strong organisation entity (now its activities are 2-3 peoples work) to vanguard users freedom. I believe the current need is strengthening
FSF
India's campaigns, and asking FSF India to take up issues from Karanataka than creating a Local FSF
Your support and opinion about a proposed FSF-Karnataka needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. You have completely skipped your accusations about FSF-{AP, Ker} and jumped to FSF-India without giving any concrete reasons.
Accusations? I pointed about the problems of Institution driven movement instead of keeping a healthier link between community and foundation. They will work off course in some level as we seen on kerala and AP. But it is not a role model. In kerala free software community & movement crossed this problem existed before.
What Institution driven movement? Are you referring to FSF? Any problems in implementation can always be rectified. Your argument still does not hold water. -- Vikram Vincent +919448810822 http://swatantra.org/
FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
2008/6/2 Anivar Aravind anivar.aravind@gmail.com:
And about FSF Karnataka , I am not much happy about the concept. The problem i am seeing with FSF AP and FSF Kerala are it is centered around some other institutional base. Here in bangalore we have a good community strength . but all of us are volunteering for the free software cause.
I appreciate your spirit. But it does not prevent me from mentioning my opinion in this list. I never said anything against FSF-AP or FSF India in my mail. I was pointing the immediate need of strengthening FSF India than putting energy for a local FSF
Actually you did mention FSF-AP and FSF-Kerala. So what's wrong with FSF-AP?