2008/12/1 Anurag anurag@gnuer.org:
Vikram, with such blanket statements all over the lists, what exactly are you trying to prove? Is there some issue which can be fixed?
The Karnataka team(not yet baptised) has been working in the Free Software Movement in Karnataka from a mass movement point of view.
From http://bangalore.gnu.org.in/index.php/Main_Page "The Free
Software Users' Group Bangalore, India, also called FSUG-Bangalore, is an informal group of Free Software Users in and around Bangalore.
We discuss issues related to advocating, promoting, supporting the cause of Free Software, Free Software Operating systems, various distributions, sharing free software resources, have informal and formal meetings/seminars, organise workshops, Campaigns now and then, etc. "
We understand from this that FSUG-Bangalore is a group which has no set direction and with a jurisdiction of Bangalore alone. It will go in the direction in which the pull is stronger. A mass movement on the other hand has clear aims and objectives and an organisational structure.
If everybody agrees with our method of building the free software movement as a mass movement then please say yes and we will work on democratising FSUG-Bangalore and give it an organisational structure, aims, objectives, et al.
-----Original Message----- From: fsug-bangalore-bounces@mm.gnu.org.in [mailto:fsug-bangalore-bounces@mm.gnu.org.in] On Behalf Of Vikram Vincent Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 3:19 PM To: Free Software Users Group - Bangalore Subject: [FSUG-Bangalore] Future of FSUG-Bangalore (WasRe: Ministry meetingwith RMS, Eben)
2008/12/1 Anurag anurag@gnuer.org:
Vikram, with such blanket statements all over the lists,
what exactly
are you trying to prove? Is there some issue which can be fixed?
The Karnataka team(not yet baptised) has been working in the Free Software Movement in Karnataka from a mass movement point of view.
From http://bangalore.gnu.org.in/index.php/Main_Page "The Free Software Users' Group Bangalore, India, also called FSUG-Bangalore, is an informal group of Free Software Users in and around Bangalore.
We discuss issues related to advocating, promoting, supporting the cause of Free Software, Free Software Operating systems, various distributions, sharing free software resources, have informal and formal meetings/seminars, organise workshops, Campaigns now and then, etc. "
We understand from this that FSUG-Bangalore is a group which has no set direction and with a jurisdiction of Bangalore alone. It will go in the direction in which the pull is stronger. A mass movement on the other hand has clear aims and objectives and an organisational structure.
If everybody agrees with our method of building the free software movement as a mass movement then please say yes and we will work on democratising FSUG-Bangalore and give it an organisational structure, aims, objectives, et al. --
I am not in agreement..or as of thinking as of about democratisation and mass movement.. that would be a clearly separate debate ..i am making this statement so that folks don't confuse my earlier mails to arun with this..i sent a mail to fsf-I - so that next time I am involved in a joint program or a slumdweller program....fsf-i considers it to be in the right spirit..when we have fsug as a particpant and not as the main organiser..unless it was specifically a fsug programme ...especially in light of all the controversy...and flame..its better to avoid something..like that..in the interests of the movement..
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Senthil Sundaram (sensunda) sensunda@cisco.com wrote:
I am not in agreement..or as of thinking as of about democratisation and mass movement.. that would be a clearly separate debate ..i am making this statement so that folks don't confuse my earlier mails to arun with this..i sent a mail to fsf-I - so that next time I am involved in a joint program or a slumdweller program....fsf-i considers it to be in the right spirit..when we have fsug as a particpant and not as the main organiser..unless it was specifically a fsug programme
We can decide about joint programmes when we are organizing it. why we want to create the flame on rule set. This is a user group. You are also part of it. We may not be in this group in all the future. new users come , volunteer and Organize new processes. It is the way most of the user communities function.
In some programmes related to free software SlumDweller programme may be invite FSUG bangalore to participate. Then it can participate as a supporting/participating group. In some cases FSUG will be the main Organizer and a lot of groups may support it. In some other cases like RMS visit, it will be organized jointly by 3 Organizers. It is the way things are happening. That can be decided by the user group as usual
...especially in light of all the controversy...and flame..its better to avoid something..like that..in the interests of the movement..
It is always good to stop flame. can someone tell it to vikram too ;-)
Anivar
I dont think we are so experienced or so perfect which makes us feel that others are sheeps and goats
When parents teach kids how to walk , How to talk, How to kick, How to behave., it is so natural that kids demand so many things to parents. I hope this is the scenario of any family. It does not mean that parents will throw away their kids if a kid is not properly behaving.( kids will shout , kick, run away faster than parents )
Parents will always say that they were their kids , irrespective of the kid is Robber/Doctor /Engineer/ etc etc etc ... because they are thier kids.
Ultimately kids will decide whether to be within family or go away . Since the knowledge they got or care shown by the parents became so much that they will find only parents to experiment.
Anyways i feel whoever it is those who came to know about free software , those who understood the free softwares , those who are trying to understand free softwares one day all would have come from the root family of free software movement.
Each kid ( person or an individual ) can think where he/she/they have to be .. Kids cannot select /elect their parents , they are kids of some parents , nor the sense of family could be broken just because one kid or many kids from many different family get out of their family (Again what they will do is same --they have to build a family ----------No one can deny this , and the story repeats -- If your wings are stonger enough no one can hold you from flying )
Guys all are so matured and so intelligent that no one has to teach you the ideologies of a typical family in a typical society ( atleast in our country ). Hope this could be followed in any sort of group / organization / movement
I consider myself to be inexperienced and ineligible to comment on those who are guiding us ------ i would continue to work according to the guidelines of FSF-I where ever i am and ofcourse it is not just restricted to just FSUG-Bangalore , It may be whole state of karnataka or other states or which ever place in india i am i would like to take suggestion from seniors who have been already guiding the people in best interets of free software movement
2008/12/1 Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.com:
We understand from this that FSUG-Bangalore is a group which has no set direction and with a jurisdiction of Bangalore alone. It will go in the direction in which the pull is stronger. A mass movement on the other hand has clear aims and objectives and an organisational structure.
so, isn't it up to us, the list members to set a direction then? increase the jurisdiction if needed? there's a saying about `building on the shoulders of giants'. shouldn't we put existing resources to use instead of creating new "movements"?
If everybody agrees with our method of building the free software movement as a mass movement then please say yes and we will work on democratising FSUG-Bangalore and give it an organisational structure, aims, objectives, et al.
and what keeps you from defining aims, objectives and activities of fsug-bangalore now? how would you ensure that your mass movement won't get stormed by people with hidden agenda to promote 'non-free' software and ideology.
Anurag
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Anivar Aravind -
Anurag -
renuka prasad -
Senthil Sundaram (sensunda) -
Vikram Vincent