In reference to http://www.hindu.com/2008/11/19/stories/2008111956231000.htm lets have a GNU grazing to discuss the course of action.
Date: Saturday 22nd November, 2008 Time: 16:00hrs Venue: NGV grounds, Koramangala.
We can update information on the http://bangalore.gnu.org.in wiki. Agenda: VTU, Microsoft tie-up to develop curriculum -- Our response to the tie-up -- Plans to protest? -- Alternate to such a tie-up
Vikram Vincent
2008/11/19 Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.com
In reference to http://www.hindu.com/2008/11/19/stories/2008111956231000.htm lets have a GNU grazing to discuss the course of action.
Date: Saturday 22nd November, 2008 Time: 16:00hrs Venue: NGV grounds, Koramangala.
We can update information on the http://bangalore.gnu.org.in wiki.
http://bangalore.gnu.org.in/index.php/Campaigns:VTU-MS_Curriculum_tie_up
Agenda: VTU, Microsoft tie-up to develop curriculum -- Our response to the tie-up -- Plans to protest? -- Alternate to such a tie-up
Vikram Vincent
Vikram Vincent wrote:
Agenda: VTU, Microsoft tie-up to develop curriculum -- Our response to the tie-up -- Plans to protest?
An alternate suggestion to a dharna/protest ..... why not ask the volunteers taking part in the dharna to use the same organisational time and energy in developing some curriculum content , and approaching the powers-that-be in VTU to reconsider the tie-up with MS !?
Vid
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 1:07 PM, vid ml@upasva.in wrote:
Vikram Vincent wrote:
Agenda: VTU, Microsoft tie-up to develop curriculum -- Our response to the tie-up -- Plans to protest?An alternate suggestion to a dharna/protest ..... why not ask the volunteers taking part in the dharna to use the same organisational time and energy in developing some curriculum content , and approaching the powers-that-be in VTU to reconsider the tie-up with MS !?
11 colleges under VTU now have autonomy status./ Demanding them to adopt Free software based curriculum is also important
Anivar
Vid _______________________________________________ FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 1:07 PM, vid ml@upasva.in wrote:
Vikram Vincent wrote:
Agenda: VTU, Microsoft tie-up to develop curriculum -- Our response to the tie-up -- Plans to protest?An alternate suggestion to a dharna/protest ..... why not ask the volunteers taking part in the dharna to use the same organisational time and energy in developing some curriculum content , and approaching the powers-that-be in VTU to reconsider the tie-up with MS !?
i too feel this is the best idea , i think people from industry / academics with like minded can design an alternate curriculum and demonstrate to BOE Chairman of respective autonomous and as well non -autonomous colleges
but a protest would definitely send the message to VTU and M$
Vid _______________________________________________ FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
my suggestion :
yes we would come up with alternate content ( not complete syllabus but otuline ) send a letter to vtu, meet vtu and convince of the context and finally go on campaign - candle light vigil if it doesnt work out..
-s
________________________________
From: fsug-bangalore-bounces@mm.gnu.org.in [mailto:fsug-bangalore-bounces@mm.gnu.org.in] On Behalf Of renuka prasad Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:12 AM To: Free Software Users Group - Bangalore Subject: Re: [FSUG-Bangalore] GNU grazing on the 22nd November
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 1:07 PM, vid ml@upasva.in wrote:
Vikram Vincent wrote: > Agenda: > VTU, Microsoft tie-up to develop curriculum > -- Our response to the tie-up > -- Plans to protest? An alternate suggestion to a dharna/protest ..... why not ask the volunteers taking part in the dharna to use the same organisational time and energy in developing some curriculum content , and approaching the powers-that-be in VTU to reconsider the tie-up with MS !?
i too feel this is the best idea , i think people from industry / academics with like minded can design an alternate curriculum and demonstrate to BOE Chairman of respective autonomous and as well non -autonomous colleges
but a protest would definitely send the message to VTU and M$
Vid _______________________________________________ FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
renuka prasad wrote:
i too feel this is the best idea , i think people from industry / academics with like minded can design an alternate curriculum and demonstrate to BOE Chairman of respective autonomous and as well non -autonomous colleges
but a protest would definitely send the message to VTU and M$
Am not sure whether you guys already know about this, but as I was at the place who did this I thought of pointing these to you..
[1] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/wiki/FossElectivesSyllabus [2] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/wiki/FossElectiveoneBook [3] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/wiki/FossElectiveTwoBook [4] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/wiki/FosselectiveTwo [5] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/wiki/FossLabExperiments
Well, I don't mean to propose the same as a lot of things in the syllabus [1] were indeed felt to be too heavy or over loaded for starters but Anna University has been quite successful in implementing the FOSS Elective and there is quite a good track record of performances in this elective. We can review it and modify it according to what we feel would be appropriate and need-of-the-hour.
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Parthan SR parth.technofreak@gmail.comwrote:
renuka prasad wrote:
i too feel this is the best idea , i think people from industry / academics with like minded can design an alternate curriculum and demonstrate to BOE Chairman of respective autonomous and as well non -autonomous colleges
but a protest would definitely send the message to VTU and M$
Am not sure whether you guys already know about this, but as I was at the place who did this I thought of pointing these to you..
[1] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/wiki/FossElectivesSyllabus [2] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/wiki/FossElectiveoneBook [3] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/wiki/FossElectiveTwoBook [4] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/wiki/FosselectiveTwo [5] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/wiki/FossLabExperiments
Amazing ,
Thanks a lot
Well, I don't mean to propose the same as a lot of things in the syllabus [1] were indeed felt to be too heavy or over loaded for starters but Anna University has been quite successful in implementing the FOSS Elective and there is quite a good track record of performances in this elective. We can review it and modify it according to what we feel would be appropriate and need-of-the-hour.
Ya it is difficult for immediate replacement definitely few subjects could be replaced at the beginner level, as there is some time required for the trainers also to get used to new things
--
With Regards,
Parthan "technofreak" <gpg> 2FF01026 <blog> http://blog.technofreak.in
FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
we should show the folks that this much of syllabus is there..in the process of campaign.. parth, can u update the campaign page and join us tommorrow..
-s
________________________________
From: fsug-bangalore-bounces@mm.gnu.org.in [mailto:fsug-bangalore-bounces@mm.gnu.org.in] On Behalf Of renuka prasad Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:43 AM To: parth.technofreak@gmail.com; Free Software Users Group - Bangalore Subject: Re: [FSUG-Bangalore] GNU grazing on the 22nd November
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Parthan SR parth.technofreak@gmail.com wrote:
renuka prasad wrote: > > i too feel this is the best idea , > i think people from industry / academics with like minded can design > an alternate curriculum and demonstrate to BOE Chairman of respective > autonomous and as well non -autonomous colleges > > but a protest would definitely send the message to VTU and M$ > Am not sure whether you guys already know about this, but as I was at the place who did this I thought of pointing these to you.. [1] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/wiki/FossElectivesSyllabus [2] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/wiki/FossElectiveoneBook [3] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/wiki/FossElectiveTwoBook [4] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/wiki/FosselectiveTwo [5] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/wiki/FossLabExperiments
Amazing ,
Thanks a lot
Well, I don't mean to propose the same as a lot of things in the syllabus [1] were indeed felt to be too heavy or over loaded for starters but Anna University has been quite successful in implementing the FOSS Elective and there is quite a good track record of performances in this elective. We can review it and modify it according to what we feel would be appropriate and need-of-the-hour.
Ya it is difficult for immediate replacement definitely few subjects could be replaced at the beginner level, as there is some time required for the trainers also to get used to new things
-- --- With Regards, Parthan "technofreak" <gpg> 2FF01026 <blog> http://blog.technofreak.in
_______________________________________________ FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 10:43 AM, renuka prasad renukaprasadb@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Parthan SR parth.technofreak@gmail.com wrote:
renuka prasad wrote:
i too feel this is the best idea , i think people from industry / academics with like minded can design an alternate curriculum and demonstrate to BOE Chairman of respective autonomous and as well non -autonomous colleges
but a protest would definitely send the message to VTU and M$
Am not sure whether you guys already know about this, but as I was at the place who did this I thought of pointing these to you..
[1] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/wiki/FossElectivesSyllabus [2] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/wiki/FossElectiveoneBook [3] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/wiki/FossElectiveTwoBook [4] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/wiki/FosselectiveTwo [5] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/wiki/FossLabExperiments
http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Calicut_University_Syllabus_IT
This may be an example of syllabus without Proprietary mentions
Anivar
Amazing ,
Thanks a lot
Well, I don't mean to propose the same as a lot of things in the syllabus [1] were indeed felt to be too heavy or over loaded for starters but Anna University has been quite successful in implementing the FOSS Elective and there is quite a good track record of performances in this elective. We can review it and modify it according to what we feel would be appropriate and need-of-the-hour.
Ya it is difficult for immediate replacement definitely few subjects could be replaced at the beginner level, as there is some time required for the trainers also to get used to new things
--
With Regards,
Parthan "technofreak" <gpg> 2FF01026 <blog> http://blog.technofreak.in
FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
2008/11/19 vid ml@upasva.in
An alternate suggestion to a dharna/protest ..... why not ask the volunteers taking part in the dharna to use the same organisational time and energy in developing some curriculum content , and approaching the powers-that-be in VTU to reconsider the tie-up with MS !?
This will be an awareness campaign and hence the first step would be to meet the concerned officials and give represenations, then meet the press then conduct some public programs etc... Campaigning among teachers and students is top of our list.
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.comwrote:
2008/11/19 Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.com
In reference to http://www.hindu.com/2008/11/19/stories/2008111956231000.htm lets have a GNU grazing to discuss the course of action.
Date: Saturday 22nd November, 2008 Time: 16:00hrs Venue: NGV grounds, Koramangala.
Sorry !!! busy with translation, editing , reviewing and preparation for the events , I can join online---- if some body can inform me when you start , we can use #fsug-bangalore channel ,
Definitely this is a serious topic , very immediate actions should be taken , Vikram or anybody , Can you communicate to different colleges and try to invite the faculties / students for the meeting if you dont mind ( or if you have time ) -
We can update information on the http://bangalore.gnu.org.in wiki.
http://bangalore.gnu.org.in/index.php/Campaigns:VTU-MS_Curriculum_tie_up
Agenda: VTU, Microsoft tie-up to develop curriculum -- Our response to the tie-up -- Plans to protest? -- Alternate to such a tie-up
Vikram Vincent
-- Vikram Vincent +919448810822 http://swatantra.org/
FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 11:39 PM, renuka prasad renukaprasadb@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.com wrote:
2008/11/19 Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.com
In reference to http://www.hindu.com/2008/11/19/stories/2008111956231000.htm lets have a GNU grazing to discuss the course of action.
Date: Saturday 22nd November, 2008 Time: 16:00hrs Venue: NGV grounds, Koramangala.
Any Option to participate Remotely? I will be in Kerala on this date
What I suggest is in following order within 2 weeks(hypothetical)
1. A letter to VTU from FSF India 2. A Delegation From FSUG bangalore 3. Protest by students groups in VTU (if possible) , FSUG members can join 4. Letter from Supporting Groups ( Can we get It4Change, Sampada etc)
All this need to be done within 2 weeks (the time left before signing contract
Anivar
Sorry !!! busy with translation, editing , reviewing and preparation for the events , I can join online---- if some body can inform me when you start , we can use #fsug-bangalore channel ,
Definitely this is a serious topic , very immediate actions should be taken , Vikram or anybody , Can you communicate to different colleges and try to invite the faculties / students for the meeting if you dont mind ( or if you have time ) -
We can update information on the http://bangalore.gnu.org.in wiki.
http://bangalore.gnu.org.in/index.php/Campaigns:VTU-MS_Curriculum_tie_up
Agenda: VTU, Microsoft tie-up to develop curriculum -- Our response to the tie-up -- Plans to protest? -- Alternate to such a tie-up
Vikram Vincent
-- Vikram Vincent +919448810822 http://swatantra.org/
FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
2008/11/20 renuka prasad renukaprasadb@gmail.com
<snip>Definitely this is a serious topic , very immediate actions should be taken , Vikram or anybody , Can you communicate to different colleges and try to invite the faculties / students for the meeting if you dont mind ( or if you have time ) -
Sure. Since this is an awareness campaign we will definitely go college to college.
Meeting attended by: Senthil Vikram Balaji Justin Rakesh Arun Rafeek Rasinesh Krishna Kumar Nidhin Nirmal
Surendra
Minutes of the meeting: The agenda discussed was the VTU-Microsoft tie up. Equivalent to providing free tobacco to students and getting them hooked. NRCFOSS and other syllabus focussing on free sofware and open standards are already available. Many institutions like IISc and IITs are also good examples. Free software alternates to be suggested to VTU instead of proprietary software. "Say no to vendor lock-in in education" campaign Alternate catchy titles: Today's dreamspark tomorrow's dark dreams etc...
Awareness campaign vigil on the 29th of September at 5PM at either Town Hall or Gandhi statue, MG road.
Ideas for the campaign: -- tying hands and books with hand cuffs -- humourous posters.
Since multiple groups and teams will collaborate on this campaign it was decided to have all participate under the joint banner of "Volunteers for Free Software – Karnataka"
The participating groups are:
-- Swatantra.Org
-- Kannada bloggers
-- C3 computing centre
-- FSUG Bangalore
-- Anybody else
Responsibilities: Press meet: Jaykumar, Justin Try to involve Girish Karnad or UR Ananta Murthy, CK Meena, Nemichandra, Arundathi Nag -- Senthil, Balaji DTP and design: Arun and Rakesh Police permission: Vikram Prepare team to meet VTU special officer to give representation: Surendra
Please fill in any details I may have missed out.
Vikram Vincent
On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 8:50 PM, Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.comwrote:
Meeting attended by: Senthil Vikram Balaji Justin Rakesh Arun Rafeek Rasinesh Krishna Kumar Nidhin Nirmal
Surendra
Minutes of the meeting: The agenda discussed was the VTU-Microsoft tie up. Equivalent to providing free tobacco to students and getting them hooked. NRCFOSS and other syllabus focussing on free sofware and open standards are already available. Many institutions like IISc and IITs are also good examples. Free software alternates to be suggested to VTU instead of proprietary software. "Say no to vendor lock-in in education" campaign Alternate catchy titles: Today's dreamspark tomorrow's dark dreams etc...
Awareness campaign vigil on the 29th of September at 5PM at either Town Hall or Gandhi statue, MG road.
Ideas for the campaign: -- tying hands and books with hand cuffs -- humourous posters.
Since multiple groups and teams will collaborate on this campaign it was decided to have all participate under the joint banner of "Volunteers for Free Software – Karnataka"
The participating groups are:
-- Swatantra.Org
-- Kannada bloggers
-- C3 computing centre
-- FSUG Bangalore
-- Anybody else
Where are the people who are associated with VTU?
The above plan and below things looks very nice for a general protest against the tie ups mentioned above, but without a single concern for all those who are associated with VTU i think this will not be very effective w.r.t VTU-M$ tie-up.
First all of us have to understand how university is functioning.
Where are the Management , Priciapals,BOE chairmans, Representation from Different colleges , BOE committee members , Syllabus Board , (policy makers / enforcing authorities / applying bodies ) without having a single person associated with the protest i feel it would not be very effective ...
Whatever / whoever approaches finally it is voice from the people who are associated with the university has to be raised and we have to find a way of involving those first .
We are already late -------- problem is we are lazy ( i am referring myself and others within VTU like me ) Microsoft / IBM /Sun / Infosys / Wipro /Adobe ...etc etc has already identified representatives in each college and are paid as par to the industries for imparting the proprietary technologies with and also apart from curriculum.....
I am seeing regular circulars where by default each college has to depute faculties / colleges for thier regular workshops and all those circulars are coming under VC -letter pad
Two satellites regularly braodcasts tutorials / courses about the proprietary technologies ---
What are the ways left for us to tackle ............................................????????
So my suggestion is to make first students / faculties / HOD/Pricipals/Management associated with VTU aware about the problems of having proprietary technologies in the curriculum , and awareness has to happen in each and every campus
( if we suggest the changes ----------------- who are the people who will train the trainers and who will give any support whenever required , these are the question i have already faced when i previously approached for using the alternate for TALLY -- we should be ready with answers - is what i meant.....
First of all we should see that free software community representatives are invloved in syllabus framing commitee --- without that how will any one even look at the posssibilities......................who are the people whom they can involve in the board of syllabus framing commitee.... How can any one invlove a stranger in the commitee --------these are the challenges that we need to face ------------Thats why first we should take people associated with the university in to confidence and then proceed ...
Involving people who are associated with VTU is as important as having a awareness program / protest / syllabus review .............
Think abt this and lets work keeping this important point in mind---------------is my suggestion ..
Responsibilities: Press meet: Jaykumar, Justin Try to involve Girish Karnad or UR Ananta Murthy, CK Meena, Nemichandra, Arundathi Nag -- Senthil, Balaji DTP and design: Arun and Rakesh Police permission: Vikram Prepare team to meet VTU special officer to give representation: SurendraPlease fill in any details I may have missed out.
Vikram Vincent
FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 9:39 PM, renuka prasad renukaprasadb@gmail.comwrote:
On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 8:50 PM, Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.comwrote:
Meeting attended by: Senthil Vikram Balaji Justin Rakesh Arun Rafeek Rasinesh Krishna Kumar Nidhin Nirmal
Surendra
Minutes of the meeting: The agenda discussed was the VTU-Microsoft tie up. Equivalent to providing free tobacco to students and getting them hooked. NRCFOSS and other syllabus focussing on free sofware and open standards are already available. Many institutions like IISc and IITs are also good examples. Free software alternates to be suggested to VTU instead of proprietary software. "Say no to vendor lock-in in education" campaign Alternate catchy titles: Today's dreamspark tomorrow's dark dreams etc...
Awareness campaign vigil on the 29th of September at 5PM at either Town Hall or Gandhi statue, MG road.
Ideas for the campaign: -- tying hands and books with hand cuffs -- humourous posters.
Since multiple groups and teams will collaborate on this campaign it was decided to have all participate under the joint banner of "Volunteers for Free Software – Karnataka"
The participating groups are:
-- Swatantra.Org
-- Kannada bloggers
-- C3 computing centre
-- FSUG Bangalore
-- Anybody else
Where are the people who are associated with VTU?
The above plan and below things looks very nice for a general protest against the tie ups mentioned above, but without a single concern for all those who are associated with VTU i think this will not be very effective w.r.t VTU-M$ tie-up.
First all of us have to understand how university is functioning.
Where are the Management , Priciapals,BOE chairmans, Representation from Different colleges , BOE committee members , Syllabus Board , (policy makers / enforcing authorities / applying bodies ) without having a single person associated with the protest i feel it would not be very effective ...
Whatever / whoever approaches finally it is voice from the people who are associated with the university has to be raised and we have to find a way of involving those first .
We are already late -------- problem is we are lazy ( i am referring myself and others within VTU like me ) Microsoft / IBM /Sun / Infosys / Wipro /Adobe ...etc etc has already identified representatives in each college and are paid as par to the industries for imparting the proprietary technologies with and also apart from curriculum.....
I am seeing regular circulars where by default each college has to depute faculties / colleges for thier regular workshops and all those circulars are coming under VC -letter pad
Two satellites regularly braodcasts tutorials / courses about the proprietary technologies ---
What are the ways left for us to tackle ............................................????????
So my suggestion is to make first students / faculties / HOD/Pricipals/Management associated with VTU aware about the problems of having proprietary technologies in the curriculum , and awareness has to happen in each and every campus
( if we suggest the changes ----------------- who are the people who will train the trainers and who will give any support whenever required , these are the question i have already faced when i previously approached for using the alternate for TALLY -- we should be ready with answers - is what i meant.....
First of all we should see that free software community representatives are invloved in syllabus framing commitee --- without that how will any one even look at the posssibilities......................who are the people whom they can involve in the board of syllabus framing commitee.... How can any one invlove a stranger in the commitee --------these are the challenges that we need to face ------------Thats why first we should take people associated with the university in to confidence and then proceed ...
Involving people who are associated with VTU is as important as having a awareness program / protest / syllabus review .............
Think abt this and lets work keeping this important point in mind---------------is my suggestion ..
Once the syllabus is changed -- next four years -- syllabus will not be changed at all. so what next?
another important information for you all is that The best colleges ( 11 -15 colleges in karnataka who are autonomous ) are not getting effected by this tie-up ( little bit of relief )
-- i initially was tensed up while i read the news came from parthan ( sorry if mistyped ) , but later then realized -------------- but the HOD /faculties / Principals /management of the autonomous may be supporting the Proprietary technologies , we should adress this ----
I hope Mr Senthil last time put some effort on this involving few --later we left may be because every one got busy in their work ( 6 months back , dont know exact time )
Responsibilities: Press meet: Jaykumar, Justin Try to involve Girish Karnad or UR Ananta Murthy, CK Meena, Nemichandra, Arundathi Nag -- Senthil, Balaji DTP and design: Arun and Rakesh Police permission: Vikram Prepare team to meet VTU special officer to give representation: SurendraPlease fill in any details I may have missed out.
Vikram Vincent
FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
renuka prasad wrote:
Once the syllabus is changed -- next four years -- syllabus will not be changed at all. so what next?
another important information for you all is that The best colleges ( 11 -15 colleges in karnataka who are autonomous ) are not getting effected by this tie-up ( little bit of relief )
-- i initially was tensed up while i read the news came from parthan ( sorry if mistyped ) , but later then realized -------------- but the HOD /faculties / Principals /management of the autonomous may be supporting the Proprietary technologies , we should adress this ----
The syllabus issue is a kind of problem, especially when it gets implemented and people get into comfort level with it that it becomes so hard to change. Am sure when it gets implemented, MS is going to somehow get the students into their lock, provide certifications and all the crap, make job promises (remember the so-called top MNCs in India are on their side), and what not.
Secondly, it's easier for MS to seep through autonomous colleges as they're $$ hungry and having MS on their brochure makes them more attractive.
Well, I wasn't panicking or tensed when I heard this. People were already smelling this long back and actually a lot of people were fuming about the intra- personal- fights happening here that the focus was getting lost from what needs to be tackled due to something which happened and can't be changed now. (Well, I request people not to reply to this and make another long thread.) At least they're right and we should rather spend our energy tackling this more serious problem.
They're trying to hit the nail right on the center of our head by conquering the parent university, getting into formal syllabus, conquering books, computers and students' mind thereby building a impermeable wall for us. Bangalore being the IT capital of India, if we lose to them here it's hard for us to gain our grounds back.
renuka prasad wrote:
Where are the people who are associated with VTU?
The above plan and below things looks very nice for a general protest against the tie ups mentioned above, but without a single concern for all those who are associated with VTU i think this will not be very effective w.r.t VTU-M$ tie-up.
I 1one hundred percent agree with Renuka in this one. Without including people associated with VTU and as much colleges as possible under VTU it's going to be nearly impossible to even make them hear us. If we want our protest to be taken seriously by VTU, then we have to the people associated with VTU and the colleges along with us.
So my suggestion is to make first students / faculties / HOD/Pricipals/Management associated with VTU aware about the problems of having proprietary technologies in the curriculum , and awareness has to happen in each and every campus
( if we suggest the changes ----------------- who are the people who will train the trainers and who will give any support whenever required , these are the question i have already faced when i previously approached for using the alternate for TALLY -- we should be ready with answers - is what i meant.....
First of all we should see that free software community representatives are invloved in syllabus framing commitee --- without that how will any one even look at the posssibilities......................who are the people whom they can involve in the board of syllabus framing commitee.... How can any one invlove a stranger in the commitee --------these are the challenges that we need to face ------------Thats why first we should take people associated with the university in to confidence and then proceed ...
We can also have NRCFOSS, as it's a project funded by Ministry of IT itself to spread awareness especially amongst the academic circles and generate human resources w.r.t FOSS so they can support a FOSS based industry in India. Secondly, they have been very successful in dealing with Anna University which is the parent univ for a majority of the engineering colleges in TN. Both Vikram and I have very good contacts with them and can talk to them to be on our side. Let me know if you think this is a good idea.
On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 10:01 PM, Parthan SR parth.technofreak@gmail.comwrote:
renuka prasad wrote:
Where are the people who are associated with VTU?
The above plan and below things looks very nice for a general protest against the tie ups mentioned above, but without a single concern for all those who are associated with VTU i think this will not be very effective w.r.t VTU-M$ tie-up.
I 1one hundred percent agree with Renuka in this one. Without including people associated with VTU and as much colleges as possible under VTU it's going to be nearly impossible to even make them hear us. If we want our protest to be taken seriously by VTU, then we have to the people associated with VTU and the colleges along with us.
So my suggestion is to make first students / faculties / HOD/Pricipals/Management associated with VTU aware about the problems of having proprietary technologies in the curriculum , and awareness has to happen in each and every campus
( if we suggest the changes ----------------- who are the people who will train the trainers and who will give any support whenever required , these are the question i have already faced when i previously approached for using the alternate for TALLY -- we should be ready with answers - is what i meant.....
First of all we should see that free software community representatives are invloved in syllabus framing commitee --- without that how will any one even look at the posssibilities......................who are the people whom they can involve in the board of syllabus framing commitee.... How can any one invlove a stranger in the commitee --------these are the challenges that we need to face ------------Thats why first we should take people associated with the university in to confidence and then proceed ...
We can also have NRCFOSS, as it's a project funded by Ministry of IT itself to spread awareness especially amongst the academic circles and generate human resources w.r.t FOSS so they can support a FOSS based industry in India. Secondly, they have been very successful in dealing with Anna University which is the parent univ for a majority of the engineering colleges in TN. Both Vikram and I have very good contacts with them and can talk to them to be on our side. Let me know if you think this is a good idea.
For doing things which are already proved good does not need any suggestion / permission , we can try the best possibilities and hope for the best.
--
With Regards,
Parthan "technofreak" <gpg> 2FF01026 <blog> http://blog.technofreak.in
FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
2008/11/22 Parthan SR parth.technofreak@gmail.com
We can also have NRCFOSS, as it's a project funded by Ministry of IT itself to spread awareness especially amongst the academic circles and generate human resources w.r.t FOSS so they can support a FOSS based industry in India. Secondly, they have been very successful in dealing with Anna University which is the parent univ for a majority of the engineering colleges in TN. Both Vikram and I have very good contacts with them and can talk to them to be on our side. Let me know if you think this is a good idea.
As far as I know, NRCFOSS has been involved in some sort of advocacy in Karnataka in the recent past. We can definitely involve NRCFOSS in this process though the ground work would be essentially ours.
We can also have NRCFOSS, as it's a project funded by Ministry of IT itself to spread awareness especially amongst the academic circles and generate human resources w.r.t FOSS so they can support a FOSS based industry in India. Secondly, they have been very successful in dealing with Anna University which is the parent univ for a majority of the engineering colleges in TN. Both Vikram and I have very good contacts with them and can talk to them to be on our side. Let me know if you think this is a good idea.
Yes nrcfoss can also join the awareness campaing..and the event we are planning next Saturday..can be a starting point.. We can plan to go on a vtu round campaign shortly..
We are also talking to all college student contacts under vtu and we will request them to come..some lecturers will be part of it..please get in touch with vikram
Hey Renuka,
2008/11/22 renuka prasad renukaprasadb@gmail.com
Where are the people who are associated with VTU?
<snip> Involving people who are associated with VTU is as important as having a awareness program / protest / syllabus review .............
Think abt this and lets work keeping this important point in mind---------------is my suggestion ..
Very good points in both mails. From your mails itself we can understand how difficult it is to influence the system. I am a former student of VTU and hence I understand the issues clearly. Also we felt that a protest at this point would be pointless. An awareness campaign would be more useful. Do you have contacts in VTU we can approach?
Vikram Vincent
On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 7:05 AM, Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.com wrote:
Think abt this and lets work keeping this important point in mind---------------is my suggestion ..
Very good points in both mails. From your mails itself we can understand how difficult it is to influence the system. I am a former student of VTU and hence I understand the issues clearly. Also we felt that a protest at this point would be pointless. An awareness campaign would be more useful. Do you have contacts in VTU we can approach?
Vikram Vincent
I agree. at this stage an awareness creation is useful. think of a creative way of doing this. create a map of each item in the syllabus with how that can be met by a free software. If we have a complete map, then the argument becomes stronger.
Nagarjuna
On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 10:45 PM, Nagarjuna G. nagarjun@gnowledge.orgwrote:
I agree. at this stage an awareness creation is useful. think of a creative way of doing this. create a map of each item in the syllabus with how that can be met by a free software. If we have a complete map, then the argument becomes stronger.
Thanks GN for your inputs
only concern is the major colleges that we have in bangalore are autonomous and we cannot take those syllabus and also we cannot call those people to involve in the protest ...
Ofcourse to complicate the issues PG departments are not given autonomous status and some few departments are under VTU and few other are not under VTU
Some have got permanent affiliation and some have not ( these all are just to have some hold over the colleges -- nothing else )
so should we make a general approach or specific to the syllabus of VTU?
Nagarjuna _______________________________________________ FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
I agree. at this stage an awareness creation is useful. think of a creative way of doing this. create a map of each item in the syllabus with how that can be met by a free software. If we have a complete map, then the argument becomes stronger.
This in plan...to put up and exactly alternate page...on dreamspark..and ask why if we can look at code apart from having the software gratis..why lock-in
On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.comwrote:
Very good points in both mails. From your mails itself we can understand how difficult it is to influence the system. I am a former student of VTU and hence I understand the issues clearly. Also we felt that a protest at this point would be pointless. An awareness campaign would be more useful. Do you have contacts in VTU we can approach?
every thing is put up on VTU site, but never try those , as i already tried for so several reasons did not work. they dont case to give info abt VC when i tried to call.. we can get contacts through principals of different colleges ....
You dont believe the principals of colleges will be nowadyas so busy they are not even accessable to their own staff ( i have not even once spoke to our principal face to face till now )
What i meant to say was --- the system is very hierarchical we need to make a strong awareness campaign .. starting from the Students level --------- if students speak then the whole system has to listen ...
Students are and the only way ---------- is what i see
Very simple asssume if every stdent in a college say they dont subjects with Proprietary technologies , then it will be so obvious that any one has to listen to students ---------
Ofcourse the upper hierarchies also are very important --- but to bring a change it will be much easier if students ask is what i feel ---------
------------------------------------ the other option -------------------------------
Massive / regualr awareness campaign involving students and faculties and HOD
---------------------------------------another option-----------------------------
Gandhigiri!!!!!!!!
Vikram Vincent
FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
2008/11/22 renuka prasad renukaprasadb@gmail.com
<snip> Students are and the only way ---------- is what i see
Massive / regualr awareness campaign involving students and faculties and HOD
I agree. This is the ground work that is very much required and I would go to the extent of saying that you have actually suggested the mass movement approach. Let us put together a six months- one year VTU campaign plan. We can meet teachers from various depts. in as many colleges as possible and also get in touch with students while simultaneously educating all concerned. This process must continue until a critical mass is built and then we will be in a position to influence policy issues.
Vikram Vincent
On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.comwrote:
I agree. This is the ground work that is very much required and I would go to the extent of saying that you have actually suggested the mass movement approach.
I could not understand what you want to say?
Let us put together a six months- one year VTU campaign plan. We can meet teachers from various depts. in as many colleges as possible and also get in touch with students while simultaneously educating all concerned. This process must continue until a critical mass is built and then we will be in a position to influence policy issues.
Ya we can work on these we should ask for more and more people to participate as everybody are having their own work also na -- so we need to ask for people to volunteer and also in what way they could involve then we can take forward...
Vikram Vincent
FSUG-Bangalore mailing list FSUG-Bangalore@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore
2008/11/22 Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.com
Responsibilities:
Banners, flex - Nidhin Letter to VTU - Likith, Krishna Kumar, Vikram
-
Anivar Aravind -
Nagarjuna G. -
Parthan SR -
renuka prasad -
Senthil Sundaram (sensunda) -
vid -
Vikram Vincent